T Nation

Best Protocol to Maintain Libido?

As I’m inching closer and closer to starting my very first cycle, the only thing holding me back is fear of losing libido. My wife is supportive of me doing a cycle, but she too is nervous of the possibility of have libido problems. I’ve had the gear for about 4 months and really would like to start soon!

My cycle will be 12 weeks of test e, along with adex starting out at .25mg eod. I’m trying to get my hands on some HCG. I thought about doing 500iu a week, I’m not sure at what point during my cycle I should start?

PCT: So far I only have nolvadex, anyone know of a safe online place to buy clomid? I’ve also considered aromasin as well.

I want the most solid pct that will help me recover fast, keep solid gains, and of course not have libido problems!

Please help!

How much test are you doing? Depending on the dose .25mg EOD may be enough or not. Only labs will confirm this. TRT guys say you want to keep estrogen around 20 ng/dl for optimal health and libido, so you could star with this dose (or whatever dose you choose), wait a couple of weeks, take labs, adjust and repeat until you nail the target.

Some start HCG from week 1 while others wait something like two weeks to start using it. Consensus is that this is up to you so it shouldn’t make much difference. HCG will shut down the top part of your HPTA but exogenous T will also do this so I guess the only difference is that if you take HCG from day 1 this shutdown will happen faster whereas it would take more time (not a lot more) for the T alone to do this.

Nolvadex should be enough for PCT. Aromasin could be a worthwhile addition since it will help to manage estrogen during PCT, thus making recovery faster. Remember that your PCT drugs should be tapered down.

Maybe consider adding Proviron into the cycle to help with libido?

[quote]eaboadar wrote:
How much test are you doing? Depending on the dose .25mg EOD may be enough or not. Only labs will confirm this. TRT guys say you want to keep estrogen around 20 ng/dl for optimal health and libido, so you could star with this dose (or whatever dose you choose), wait a couple of weeks, take labs, adjust and repeat until you nail the target.

Some start HCG from week 1 while others wait something like two weeks to start using it. Consensus is that this is up to you so it shouldn’t make much difference. HCG will shut down the top part of your HPTA but exogenous T will also do this so I guess the only difference is that if you take HCG from day 1 this shutdown will happen faster whereas it would take more time (not a lot more) for the T alone to do this.

Nolvadex should be enough for PCT. Aromasin could be a worthwhile addition since it will help to manage estrogen during PCT, thus making recovery faster. Remember that your PCT drugs should be tapered down.

Maybe consider adding Proviron into the cycle to help with libido?[/quote]

Thank you for the info. I’ll be doing 500mg a week. Two injections, Monday and Thursday. I did just order up some clomid for pct as well. I’ve read up a little on proviron, I’ll have to research it some more. I was also wondering should I take adex the first day I start or wait a week or two? Or until I feel some sides coming on?

[quote]Bdubbs wrote:
Thank you for the info. I’ll be doing 500mg a week. Two injections, Monday and Thursday. I did just order up some clomid for pct as well. I’ve read up a little on proviron, I’ll have to research it some more. I was also wondering should I take adex the first day I start or wait a week or two? Or until I feel some sides coming on?[/quote]

If you have never done a cycle I strongly advise you to first get blood/lab work levels on your testosterone, free T, estradiol, DHEA and PSA. You want to have a reference point before you go playing with your hormone levels. (If you mess things up bad you know where you started)

You can join lef.org for about $6/month and get good discounts, although their blood work prices go down considerably more in April. For instance their basic male hormone tests at LabCorp are now $75 and should go down to $50 in April. They email, snail mail or however you chose a lab order from a doctor on staff then you take that in to your nearest LabCorp location. If you get the PSA prostate lab refrain from any sex for 48 hrs prior. Alcohol, green tea if in excess can also effect T level readings somewhat.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC100012/Male-Basic-Hormone-Panel-Blood-Test.html

Start your anti-aromatase as soon as you begin cycle. I personally started out on exemestane then found arimedex/anastrozole easier to maintain a steady estradiol level. You want to keep in the low twenties as was stated above, when you go higher you risk wasting your T. I guess youknow the more body fat the easier excess T converts to estrogen.

Aromasin/exemestane has a shorter half life than most posts indicate so on 500mg T you may need 12.5mg twice a ed/day every day or eod/every other day - because everyone is different. I was taking 25mg eod and my estradiol was at 37. on the reference scale it was still within the normal range which ended at 42, but you want low twenties.

You ideally also do want a second blood/lab done but I suggest waiting a month or two, to really get the best overall picture of what your cycle is doing. Make note of it and see if anything needs to be lowered or raised. And as Mr.Walkway also says keep an eye on your blood pressure. Some people will have it go high on them and your kidneys are then affected.

The major thing to remember is that extra T will allow your body to process a whole lot more calories. So if you wish to see anything from 500mg/week you better be putting away a lot of high quality protein. Most guys don’t understand it’s not that easy and will waste one or two cycles before that fact hits home.

I would get yourself some modern BCAA’s with the 8:1 ratio with leucine = 8 grams. Leucine will initiate the protein synthesis. Eat your protein every three hours. Shakes, chicken breasts, salmon, steak, greek yogurt (look for store brand with24 grams of protein in a cup)

Lastly if you have never injected testosterone, the initial two-three weeks are the best because your body will still be making it’s own. You will enjoy a boost of having both natural levels with the injected T. Enjoy that while it lasts.

Now questions for you. How do you plan on injecting T, intramuscular or subcutaneous? What size syringe needles? What body locations will you begin with on injections?

Very informative! I’ll have to check out that lef.org. So I can get test done through Labcorp, I just need to find the nearest location that accepts them? I don’t mind if I have to drive within 2 hrs to get stuff checked out. So the male hormone panel is what I want checked before I start a cycle correct? I’ll do this for sure, I’d like to know what my natural test levels are at anyways. I eat all those high quality proteins that you mentioned!

I would be injection intramuscular, and in the glutes and thighs. I have 25g 1" for thighs and 22g 1.5" for glutes. I may get some 25g for the glutes though. Otherwise I already have everything I need.

Maintaining E2 below 20 for “optimal for health and libido” is a myth. I strongly encourage you to read Nelson Vergel’s work. Low estrogen can destroy libido as much as high estrogen.

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Maintaining E2 below 20 for “optimal for health and libido” is a myth. I strongly encourage you to read Nelson Vergel’s work. Low estrogen can destroy libido as much as high estrogen. [/quote]

The Post reads “around 20” which is what guys on the TRT forum recommend based on their experiences. Their actual target is 22 ng/dl.

[quote]eaboadar wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Maintaining E2 below 20 for “optimal for health and libido” is a myth. I strongly encourage you to read Nelson Vergel’s work. Low estrogen can destroy libido as much as high estrogen. [/quote]

The Post reads “around 20” which is what guys on the TRT forum recommend based on their experiences. Their actual target is 22 ng/dl.[/quote]

… which may be too low for some. Don’t chase a number, chase how you feel.

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:

[quote]eaboadar wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Maintaining E2 below 20 for “optimal for health and libido” is a myth. I strongly encourage you to read Nelson Vergel’s work. Low estrogen can destroy libido as much as high estrogen. [/quote]

The Post reads “around 20” which is what guys on the TRT forum recommend based on their experiences. Their actual target is 22 ng/dl.[/quote]

… which may be too low for some. Don’t chase a number, chase how you feel.
[/quote]

Very good point.

Thanks guys, I’ll hopefully do some blood work pretty soon. Do I want the basic male hormone panel done? I’ll likely post it up to see what you guys think. I have no clue what I’ll be looking at.

[quote]eaboadar wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Maintaining E2 below 20 for “optimal for health and libido” is a myth. I strongly encourage you to read Nelson Vergel’s work. Low estrogen can destroy libido as much as high estrogen. [/quote]

The Post reads “around 20” which is what guys on the TRT forum recommend based on their experiences. [u]Their actual target is 22 ng/dl.[/u][/quote]

No it’s not…that is the target of one guy who is very helpful there, but epitomizes bro-science.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]eaboadar wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Maintaining E2 below 20 for “optimal for health and libido” is a myth. I strongly encourage you to read Nelson Vergel’s work. Low estrogen can destroy libido as much as high estrogen. [/quote]

The Post reads “around 20” which is what guys on the TRT forum recommend based on their experiences. [u]Their actual target is 22 ng/dl.[/u][/quote]

No it’s not…that is the target of one guy who is very helpful there, but epitomizes bro-science.[/quote]

My mistake. it is his target indeed. But surely it gives a reasonable reference point to start and to tweak from based on how one feels (?)