Best Pec Exercise?

[ZEB]

A few years ago I was involved in a thread (can’t remember the name of it) that revolved around the idea that the Bench Press was a movement that should not be done by long armed shallow chested people.

The reason being, that they became in essence, deltoid benchers. this caused (over a period of time) shoulder damage.

That was it in a nutshell.

Can the Bench Press build the pectorals? Absolutely! But, it is less likely to do so on folks who are built like “Mr. PushUps.” He and others like him are better off doing other things to build their chest.

1. Weighted Push-ups are great. And you can use progressive resistance with Push-ups, which makes them somewhat ideal for those with long arms who want to avoid the Bench press.

A. Add weight in the form of plates on your back or a vest.

B. Use elastic or rubber cables to add resistance.

C. Place your feet at higher levels to use resistance. (Caution: this will turn into a delt movement if you elevate your feet too high).

One more word on Push-ups:

They are a far more athletic movement than the Bench Press. The Bench Press is a fine movement for many (who are built for it-shorter arms larger chest). But Push-ups will work more muscles as you must balance your weight and use other (than simply the pecs) stabalizers muscles just to keep your self in place. Lying on your back on a Bench and pushing weight up is not a comparable athletic movement to the Push-up.

That is not to say that a huge chest cannot be built with the Bench Press. many have done this. But those who are not built properly for the Bench Press will never have the good fortune to build a huge chest with the Bench Press alone. And furthermore, they might be asking for shoulder problems if they try to do so!

2. Dumbbell Bench Pressing. With dumbbells you have more control over postion (hand movement etc). Also there is less of a range of motion with dumbbell Benching as opposed to Barbell benching which will save a great deal of wear and tear on the rotator cuff of those who are “long armed.”

3. Dips. As long as the dipping bar is fairly narrow. I have seen wide dipping bars tear shoulders apart through the years. I don’t have any studies to back it up, this is simply an observation over the years. Again, not everyone seems susceptable to this. It has to do with body type as discussed earlier.

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
[/quote]

I really dont have time to respond to post that have the above typed in it as if this was a 7th grade internet chat room. Especially when the poster of this thread is asking for my adive on what to do. Thank You for your imput.

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
A few years ago I was involved in a thread (can’t remember the name of it) that revolved around the idea that the Bench Press was a movement that should not be done by long armed shallow chested people.

The reason being, that they became in essence, deltoid benchers. this caused (over a period of time) shoulder damage.

That was it in a nutshell.

Can the Bench Press build the pectorals? Absolutely! But, it is less likely to do so on folks who are built like “Mr. PushUps.” He and others like him are better off doing other things to build their chest.

1. Weighted Push-ups are great. And you can use progressive resistance with Push-ups, which makes them somewhat ideal for those with long arms who want to avoid the Bench press.

A. Add weight in the form of plates on your back or a vest.

B. Use elastic or rubber cables to add resistance.

C. Place your feet at higher levels to use resistance. (Caution: this will turn into a delt movement if you elevate your feet too high).

One more word on Push-ups:

They are a far more athletic movement than the Bench Press. The Bench Press is a fine movement for many (who are built for it-shorter arms larger chest). But Push-ups will work more muscles as you must balance your weight and use other (than simply the pecs) stabalizers muscles just to keep your self in place. Lying on your back on a Bench and pushing weight up is not a comparable athletic movement to the Push-up.

That is not to say that a huge chest cannot be built with the Bench Press. many have done this. But those who are not built properly for the Bench Press will never have the good fortune to build a huge chest with the Bench Press alone. And furthermore, they might be asking for shoulder problems if they try to do so!

2. Dumbbell Bench Pressing. With dumbbells you have more control over postion (hand movement etc). Also there is less of a range of motion with dumbbell Benching as opposed to Barbell benching which will save a great deal of wear and tear on the rotator cuff of those who are “long armed.”

3. Dips. As long as the dipping bar is fairly narrow. I have seen wide dipping bars tear shoulders apart through the years. I don’t have any studies to back it up, this is simply an observation over the years. Again, not everyone seems susceptable to this. It has to do with body type as discussed earlier.

[/quote]

well said

if i was as intelligent as you i wouldn’t have any doubters to my points of view

[WhiteFlash]

[quote]harris447 wrote:

To second WF, you might be having a problem with your hand spacing. Where are you keeping your hands?

I had been benching with my index finger on the rings and experiencing elbow pain and general weakness in the movement.

When i moved in to the ring finger, there was much improvement in both areas.

Also (and I know this apostasy around here), have you tried some of the machines? Hamer Strength, especially, makes very well made pieces of equipment.[/quote]

Harris got me thinking about something i didn’t intentionally mean to bring up. The wider I go while benching, the more I feel it in my shoulders and not in a good way. I really like to keep my hand placement in the shoulder width area [give or take a few inches] while flaring my elbows. I seem to get a really good stretch and I feel a really good contraction on the way up. I also focus on lowerig the weight under control [about 2 sec] and exploding up. Once again maybe it’s the way I’m built, but my chest is by far my “strong point” both in development and strength. Now only if I could get my pipe cleaners to catch up…

[Kuz]

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
harris447 wrote:

To second WF, you might be having a problem with your hand spacing. Where are you keeping your hands?

I had been benching with my index finger on the rings and experiencing elbow pain and general weakness in the movement.

When i moved in to the ring finger, there was much improvement in both areas.

Also (and I know this apostasy around here), have you tried some of the machines? Hamer Strength, especially, makes very well made pieces of equipment.

Harris got me thinking about something i didn’t intentionally mean to bring up. The wider I go while benching, the more I feel it in my shoulders and not in a good way. I really like to keep my hand placement in the shoulder width area [give or take a few inches] while flaring my elbows. I seem to get a really good stretch and I feel a really good contraction on the way up. I also focus on lowerig the weight under control [about 2 sec] and exploding up. Once again maybe it’s the way I’m built, but my chest is by far my “strong point” both in development and strength. Now only if I could get my pipe cleaners to catch up…[/quote]

Oddly enough, your benching form sounds like it is not terribly conducive to helping your “pipe cleaners” catch up. If your elbows are truly flared out, you are going to miss out on a lot of the tricep work that is involved. As was brought up in this thread, Dave Tate and other powerlifters do end up viewing the bench press as almost being a triceps exercise. Their form is to keep their arms more tucked in tight as they drive the weight up. Just something to consider.

[harris447]

[quote]Kuz wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
harris447 wrote:

To second WF, you might be having a problem with your hand spacing. Where are you keeping your hands?

I had been benching with my index finger on the rings and experiencing elbow pain and general weakness in the movement.

When i moved in to the ring finger, there was much improvement in both areas.

Also (and I know this apostasy around here), have you tried some of the machines? Hamer Strength, especially, makes very well made pieces of equipment.

Harris got me thinking about something i didn’t intentionally mean to bring up. The wider I go while benching, the more I feel it in my shoulders and not in a good way. I really like to keep my hand placement in the shoulder width area [give or take a few inches] while flaring my elbows. I seem to get a really good stretch and I feel a really good contraction on the way up. I also focus on lowerig the weight under control [about 2 sec] and exploding up. Once again maybe it’s the way I’m built, but my chest is by far my “strong point” both in development and strength. Now only if I could get my pipe cleaners to catch up…

Oddly enough, your benching form sounds like it is not terribly conducive to helping your “pipe cleaners” catch up. If your elbows are truly flared out, you are going to miss out on a lot of the tricep work that is involved. As was brought up in this thread, Dave Tate and other powerlifters do end up viewing the bench press as almost being a triceps exercise. Their form is to keep their arms more tucked in tight as they drive the weight up. Just something to consider.[/quote]

You mean keeping your elbows all the way in by your chest like during a close-grip press?

[jehovasfitness]

Mr Pushup, since you can’t seem to get it through your head. What’s your education in all this?

any biomechanics classes? anatomy classes? or anything like that.

I’ll hold my BS in Exercise Science up to you reading a few articles any day.

Besides, I’m in agreement that pushups are a great exercise, but to say a bench press is worthless is absurd.

[Kuz]

[quote]harris447 wrote:
Kuz wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
harris447 wrote:

To second WF, you might be having a problem with your hand spacing. Where are you keeping your hands?

I had been benching with my index finger on the rings and experiencing elbow pain and general weakness in the movement.

When i moved in to the ring finger, there was much improvement in both areas.

Also (and I know this apostasy around here), have you tried some of the machines? Hamer Strength, especially, makes very well made pieces of equipment.

Harris got me thinking about something i didn’t intentionally mean to bring up. The wider I go while benching, the more I feel it in my shoulders and not in a good way. I really like to keep my hand placement in the shoulder width area [give or take a few inches] while flaring my elbows. I seem to get a really good stretch and I feel a really good contraction on the way up. I also focus on lowerig the weight under control [about 2 sec] and exploding up. Once again maybe it’s the way I’m built, but my chest is by far my “strong point” both in development and strength. Now only if I could get my pipe cleaners to catch up…

Oddly enough, your benching form sounds like it is not terribly conducive to helping your “pipe cleaners” catch up. If your elbows are truly flared out, you are going to miss out on a lot of the tricep work that is involved. As was brought up in this thread, Dave Tate and other powerlifters do end up viewing the bench press as almost being a triceps exercise. Their form is to keep their arms more tucked in tight as they drive the weight up. Just something to consider.

You mean keeping your elbows all the way in by your chest like during a close-grip press?

[/quote]

Kinda, but with a wider grip than that. Again, I am no powerlifter and maybe someone like Cressey or Robertson can chime in, but the whole elbows flared out thing sounds like his elbows are almost outside of his hands.

OK, maybe it’s just getting late in the work day on a Friday and I am completely making not one iota of sense.

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Mr Pushup, since you can’t seem to get it through your head. What’s your education in all this?

any biomechanics classes? anatomy classes? or anything like that.

I’ll hold my BS in Exercise Science up to you reading a few articles any day.

Besides, I’m in agreement that pushups are a great exercise, but to say a bench press is worthless is absurd.[/quote]

since you asked. Be careful what you wish for.

i have a taken those classes and exercise science wont prove anything that blood sweat aand guts says is just horseshit.

Here are my References. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Dave Tate. I’m sure Chad Waterbury would love to school the hell out of you. Hershall Walker. Every Navy Seal in the USA. Every Recruit fresh out of boot camp. Every gymnist that ever lived. The poster of thie thread. The inteligent guys that responded with intelligent answers to this thread.

And The best reference i have, myself. My own experience spent doing push ups for the last 20 years. You can take whatever book you read and shove it straight up your ass. I took enough of those classes to know that they don’t mean shit in the real world.

Ask arnold what he felt about the rib cage expansion, although the was no eveidence or doctors to agree with him. Hard to argue with arnold. Who the hell are you? the end of the world.
Go back to hole you crawled out of and go to sleep. “Ignorance is your own slavery”

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Mr Pushup, since you can’t seem to get it through your head. What’s your education in all this?

any biomechanics classes? anatomy classes? or anything like that.

I’ll hold my BS in Exercise Science up to you reading a few articles any day.

Besides, I’m in agreement that pushups are a great exercise, but to say a bench press is worthless is absurd.[/quote]

please find a quote of mine where i said a bench press is worthless.

i will give you all my credit card numbers when you produce that quote.

please just quote what i typed, making things up makes you look less prepared

[anon31651765]

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Mr Pushup, since you can’t seem to get it through your head. What’s your education in all this?

any biomechanics classes? anatomy classes? or anything like that.

I’ll hold my BS in Exercise Science up to you reading a few articles any day.

Besides, I’m in agreement that pushups are a great exercise, but to say a bench press is worthless is absurd.[/quote]

Really. I love doing pushups. I love them alot…they’re probably my favorite of all time.

Yet they do not build significant amounts of muscle unless resistance is added. Nothing builds the chest better than heavy pressing.

Where the hell is Professor X? He loves arguments like this.

I am still convinced that Mr. Push ups is Matt Furey.

[buffalokilla]

Didn’t read the rest of the thread, so sorry if it was said - DB decline bench of varying set/rep parameters.

Unless you want to focus on your upper chest - incline presses to the clavicle with a trusted spotter.

-Dan

[WhiteFlash]

[quote]

Kinda, but with a wider grip than that. Again, I am no powerlifter and maybe someone like Cressey or Robertson can chime in, but the whole elbows flared out thing sounds like his elbows are almost outside of his hands.

OK, maybe it’s just getting late in the work day on a Friday and I am completely making not one iota of sense.[/quote]

No, you’re exactly right.My elbows are outside of my hands but I only do that to focus on my chest, which is what the original poster asked for. Strangely though this is how I move the most weight, and like you said Dave Tate reccomends to tuck the elbows to generate power. This is why I said it must be the way I’m built. I just threw in the pipe cleaner comment 'cause as my boy says “you got the chest of a football player and the arms of a golfer.” I think that’s pretty funny.

[BigRagoo]

Damn, this thread got out of hand fast. I’ll say that presses with elbows drawn in are a very good chest builder. I do BB presses flat and incline. I will do some dips and/or flyes, but I found that pressing heavy puts meat on my chest. Second to benching is weighted dips.

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Mr Pushup, since you can’t seem to get it through your head. What’s your education in all this?

any biomechanics classes? anatomy classes? or anything like that.

I’ll hold my BS in Exercise Science up to you reading a few articles any day.

Besides, I’m in agreement that pushups are a great exercise, but to say a bench press is worthless is absurd.

Really. I love doing pushups. I love them alot…they’re probably my favorite of all time.

Yet they do not build significant amounts of muscle unless resistance is added. Nothing builds the chest better than heavy pressing.

Where the hell is Professor X? He loves arguments like this.

I am still convinced that Mr. Push ups is Matt Furey.[/quote] Lol…who the hell is that?

wasn’t the other 2 guys with posts agreeing with me enough for you.
Where the hell is Dave Tate & Chad Waterbury when you need them. There are 2 valuable opinions. This knucklehead waving his little wimpy fitness degree around is supposed to make us all change what we know. Cmon man, the have 12 step programs for people like him.

I took those classes too. The only thing those classes teach are that you are too lazy to go find out for yourself so you can read this book that some 342 pound heart attack waiting to happen wrote , meanwhile he never did a push up in his life. If still waiting for someone to reproduce a quote where i said bench presses are worthless to you. Stop lying man. just quote me.

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
Kuz wrote:
Mr. Push Ups wrote:
Kuz wrote:
Mr. Push Ups wrote:
i hope were not gonna debate over a push up and a bench press, at least pick an arguement that you can win…you are ready are defending an inferior exercise to the push ups

any bodyweight movement will always be superior to its equal replica in a machine or fixed barbell position due to (body thru space ) and ROM alone. Let alone the added resistance

I’m curious about your assertion of the bodyweight movement always being superior to their counterparts for machines and “fixed barbell” (also, I take it since DB’s are not mentioned, you may possibly think them to be as good if not better than push-ups).

I am with you on the machines. Not sure I am there yet with you on barbells. In terms of it being a superior exercise… superior in what way? Just looking for clarification since your statement is a little broad. I think push-ups are a fine exercise, but even with ROM and such, I’m not sure how they can be superior to exercises where additional resistance is involved (unless you are using bands or something).

mostly due to they (body thru space) movement …less damaging on the CNS, plus i could never in a million years get a heavy barbell bench press to tear apart my pectoral muscles better than a heavy weighted push up. Therefore superior.

Advantages of the bench press- heavy loads(with a weighted push up, its not much of an adavantage)
disadvantages>> overuse will shut down the CNS

push ups, no CNS problems with a bodyweight movement is the key to this movement surpasing and chest movement…same with the dip(same principal)

Dip is far superior to the decline bench press.

Read up on the CNS.(Central Nervous System)

I like dips and do like them better than decline bench press.

CNS… yeah, thanks for the update, but I am familiar with it. I guess my point is that I have yet to see someone who does only push-ups have anywhere near the level of chest development or strength levels of someone doing DB or barbell bench press… hence why I am still unclear as to how they are the superior movement.

Doing anything all the time the same way endlessly could stress out the CNS. The exercise alone is not enough unless someone is a complete mess.

You bring up intelligent points.

heres your answer.

people like Navy seals, gymnist, hershal Walker are people that have built monsterous sized chest and shoulders doing nothing but bodyweight movements…like push ups and dips…a gymnist builds up those shoulders by pressing up his bodyweight constantly. There are some gymnist with shoulders that would make some steroid taking bodybuilders weap.

You simply cannot bulk up your chest by only using a strength movement like the bench press…you will at some point have to start dipping, using flyes, push ups and even pullovers.
Same with the push ups to a point, without building your strength the push ups lose some bulking effects.
Now i guarentee you this.

If you were allowed only 2 exercises to do in your life, and you had to pick only 1 to do. Those who wanted pecs would not want to be stuck with a bench press, you would want the more versatile push up. Better to have both.
Your Bench Press will plateau without a strong back as well.

All in All
My ranking looks something like this
1 Weighted Push Up
2 Weighted Dip
3 Push up
4 Dip
5 Bench Press(Barbell)
6 Bench Press (Dumbbell)
7 Fly
8 Pullover
9 Cable
10 Machine[/quote]

yeah?

[WhiteFlash]

I also want to add that I don’t fit the “classic bencher” mold. I’ve got proportionately long arms and had a partial tear in my rotator cuff on the right side. Despit all of this benching is the only way to go for me, and I’ve tried just about everything. What I’m trying to say is everybody is different.

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
Didn’t read the rest of the thread, so sorry if it was said - DB decline bench of varying set/rep parameters.

Unless you want to focus on your upper chest - incline presses to the clavicle with a trusted spotter.

-Dan[/quote]

something to consider

have you ever tried a scapular retraction by drawing your shoulders backward and down. I’m probably gonna take hell for this 1 too, but what the heck. You can quote me on this. “Incline Bench Presses are more of a front delt exercise than a pectoral exercise”

serge nubret used only 3 exercises to build his chest.
1- scapular retracted bench press, this hits more of the upper portion of the chest than does an incline(after all chest is chest, the whole thing is 1 muscle, not an upper chest an a lower chest)

2- fly
3-pullover
and even arnold credited him with having one of the most ballanced chest in the world.
i remember when i did the retraction i could only feel it in the upper portion of the chest.

he also didnt press straight up
he pressed sort of downward and up into an"S" shape.

take a look at apic of his chest

just something to consider

[Mr_Push_Ups]

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I also want to add that I don’t fit the “classic bencher” mold. I’ve got proportionately long arms and had a partial tear in my rotator cuff on the right side. Despit all of this benching is the only way to go for me, and I’ve tried just about everything. What I’m trying to say is everybody is different.[/quote]

i think this is the whole argument

if i saw a guy 5’3" with arms the size of drumsticks , i think the first exercize i would recomend him is the bench press

as for my self and any other guy that have arms that drop down to are knees, i would reccomend dips and push ups

while push ups may be beneficial for everyone, i cant say the same for the bench press…

[Sxio]

I like wide incline bench press (but can be hard one the shoulders). Concentrate on keeping the chest open and out through the whole lift and use a rigidly controlled descent. If you’re going for size you want no bounce at all, smooth motion all the way through and you want to completely exhaust the chest (seems obvious but I see many bouncing the weight off their chest and turning into a shoulder and tricep only movement).

I also like cable x-overs but more as a finisher.