T Nation

Best Biotest Stack

Hi Guys,

excluding Alpha Male (because contains vitex castus)what are the two best products of Biotest 2 stack for an 8 weeks mass program?

please tell me your feedbacks if you have used them…; dose and cycles if u need to do it

i thought TRIBEX gold and Carbolin 19 or TRIBEX gold and methoxy7…

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:
Hi Guys,

excluding Alpha Male (because contains vitex castus)what are the two best products of Biotest 2 stack for an 8 weeks mass program?

please tell me your feedbacks if you have used them…; dose and cycles if u need to do it

i thought TRIBEX gold and Carbolin 19 or TRIBEX gold and methoxy7…[/quote]

The ones you mentioned will be effective if you have nutrition nailed down. The thing I would focus on if you are in a mass phase would be adequate protein intake from food and shakes like Metabolic Drive Complete. Plenty of BCAA intake so, the Biotest BCAA’s would be included. Also, top recovery stimulation which would be Surge post workout with Biotest’s Creatine thrown in. After these bases were covered I would then think about Carbolin 19 and or TRIBEX and Methoxy-7. If you’re going to grow you have to provide the building blocks to grow with.

Good luck,

D

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
The ones you mentioned will be effective if you have nutrition nailed down. The thing I would focus on if you are in a mass phase would be adequate protein intake from food and shakes like Metabolic Drive Complete. Plenty of BCAA intake so, the Biotest BCAA’s would be included. Also, top recovery stimulation which would be Surge post workout with Biotest’s Creatine thrown in. After these bases were covered I would then think about Carbolin 19 and or TRIBEX and Methoxy-7. If you’re going to grow you have to provide the building blocks to grow with.

Good luck,

D[/quote]

the diet should be in check i use a specific diet that actually is working pretty good in shedding fat and gain muscle. I need to reach 10% of fat to start bulking again.

I am a bit concerned for the side effects of Carbolin 19; i did some research and came out that its safety (coleus forskohlii) has been not studied enough…so i believe i will use this stack pleasec criticise it:

I am 37 years old

TRIBEX gold at maximum dose for 5 days 2 off + LJ100 200 mg (done in way that when i rest with TRIBEX i use lJ and viceversa)+ Chrysin 2 gr and bioperine

bulk leucine + Methoxy-7 (every time i use either ecdysterone or Methoxy-7 with leucine i had good results)

alri ngorge and then if come out in time the new creatine of avants (CM make me bloated)

Man vaporize (3 caps)

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:

bulk leucine + Methoxy-7 (every time i use either ecdysterone or Methoxy-7 with leucine i had good results)

alri ngorge and then if come out in time the new creatine of avants (CM make me bloated)

Man vaporize (3 caps)

[/quote]

Instead of the bulk leucine I would just get the Biotest BCAA’s and instead of the bell and whistle Creatine the Biotest Creatine Monohydrate. I have no Idea what alri ngorge is.

D

[quote]Dedicated wrote:

Instead of the bulk leucine I would just get the Biotest BCAA’s and instead of the bell and whistle Creatine the Biotest Creatine Monohydrate. I have no Idea what alri ngorge is.

D[/quote]

i read the article about the megadosing of BCAA and their anabolic properties and i would agree (i work as lecturer and researcher at UK sport sciences academic dept)but i do not want to risk i read 2 studies by very well know italian scientists that found a positive correlations between ALS and high inteake of BCAA. This is the reason why i did not take them into consideration and opted for leucine proved , as HMB at the right doses, to be anabolic…

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:
Dedicated wrote:

Instead of the bulk leucine I would just get the Biotest BCAA’s and instead of the bell and whistle Creatine the Biotest Creatine Monohydrate. I have no Idea what alri ngorge is.

D

i read the article about the megadosing of BCAA and their anabolic properties and i would agree (i work as lecturer and researcher at UK sport sciences academic dept)but i do not want to risk i read 2 studies by very well know italian scientists that found a positive correlations between ALS and high inteake of BCAA. This is the reason why i did not take them into consideration and opted for leucine proved , as HMB at the right doses, to be anabolic…

[/quote]

In any case yes, TRIBEX Gold and Methoxy-7 would be an effective stack with what you mentioned.

D

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:
the diet should be in check i use a specific diet that actually is working pretty good in shedding fat and gain muscle.[/quote]

What is this miracle diet you speak of?

Why? Who told you that?

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
okinawa69 wrote:
the diet should be in check i use a specific diet that actually is working pretty good in shedding fat and gain muscle.

What is this miracle diet you speak of?

I need to reach 10% of fat to start bulking again.

Why? Who told you that?

[/quote]

the diet is this and is working pretty good www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi2.htm

nothing new Dr. Connelly used this type of diet but with more emphsis on proteins.

About he 10 % of fat Dr. Connelly mentioned this in an interview and actually i agree; there is no point in bulking when you do not have a good base…

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
okinawa69 wrote:
the diet should be in check i use a specific diet that actually is working pretty good in shedding fat and gain muscle.

What is this miracle diet you speak of?

I need to reach 10% of fat to start bulking again.

Why? Who told you that?

the diet is this and is working pretty good www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi2.htm

nothing new Dr. Connelly used this type of diet but with more emphsis on proteins.

About he 10 % of fat Dr. Connelly mentioned this in an interview and actually i agree; there is no point in bulking when you do not have a good base…
[/quote]

Just because you hit 10% BF doesn’t mean you have a good base. There are lots of guys out there at even less than that with little to no muscle.

The ability to bulk and gain lean mass is independent of your bodyfat level (within reason, of course). I’m not sure why anyone would say otherwise unless they are trying to sell you something.

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:

Just because you hit 10% BF doesn’t mean you have a good base. There are lots of guys out there at even less than that with little to no muscle.

The ability to bulk and gain lean mass is independent of your bodyfat level (within reason, of course). I’m not sure why anyone would say otherwise unless they are trying to sell you something.[/quote]

come on mate i do not want to post for the sake of doing it neither to argue what you are saying is obvious. it is obvious that i am referring to a person that has muscles but also a higher % of fat; hence first shed fat and keep the muscles and then starting bulking and the 10 % is optimal.
About the diet it works very well by expreince (i am doing it) and then becasue refer to % fat of your body hence is tailored to suit u. This diet can be modified to bulk when the optimum % of fat is reached…you obtain bulking without putting too much fat

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:
I am a bit concerned for the side effects of Carbolin 19; i did some research and came out that its safety (coleus forskohlii) has been not studied enough…[/quote]

I think you may need to do a little more research on the subject.

Here is an excerpt from the Carbolin 19 product page:

“The name of the novel anabolic compound is Carbolin 19. The actual chemical name is colforsin 1,9-ethylcarbonate. Carbolin 19 is a carbonate ester of a naturally occurring diterpene called colforsin (aka, forskolin). Don’t even begin to confuse this material with an herbal extract of Coleus forskohlii! We’re using a carbonate ester of pure colforsin, which means it’s a highly pure, single compound.”

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:

Just because you hit 10% BF doesn’t mean you have a good base. There are lots of guys out there at even less than that with little to no muscle.

The ability to bulk and gain lean mass is independent of your bodyfat level (within reason, of course). I’m not sure why anyone would say otherwise unless they are trying to sell you something.

come on mate i do not want to post for the sake of doing it neither to argue what you are saying is obvious. it is obvious that i am referring to a person that has muscles but also a higher % of fat; hence first shed fat and keep the muscles and then starting bulking and the 10 % is optimal.
About the diet it works very well by expreince (i am doing it) and then becasue refer to % fat of your body hence is tailored to suit u. This diet can be modified to bulk when the optimum % of fat is reached…you obtain bulking without putting too much fat

[/quote]

I’m not purposely arguing with you. What you are stating is dogma. Show me the scientific research that shows that 10% BF is the optimal level for anything.

[quote]Modi wrote:

I think you may need to do a little more research on the subject.

Here is an excerpt from the Carbolin 19 product page:

“The name of the novel anabolic compound is Carbolin 19. The actual chemical name is colforsin 1,9-ethylcarbonate. Carbolin 19 is a carbonate ester of a naturally occurring diterpene called colforsin (aka, forskolin). Don’t even begin to confuse this material with an herbal extract of Coleus forskohlii! We’re using a carbonate ester of pure colforsin, which means it’s a highly pure, single compound.”

[/quote]

hey good news then it was not my intention to bash the product. What about its efficacy ? Is it a good stack Carbolin 19 and TRIBEX and if is good how much and using which cylce method (read treibex gold should be used 2 weeks on and off or 5 days on and 2 off)

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:

I’m not purposely arguing with you. What you are stating is dogma. Show me the scientific research that shows that 10% BF is the optimal level for anything.[/quote]

cool; it was time ago in an interview with Scott Connelly and he said that a person should have shed fat and increase muscularity using moderate-low intake of claories and then when reached 10 % of body fat consider tu up his calories…

about the diet of bodybuilding .com is based on sound scientific framework and most important is working on me

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
okinawa69 wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:

Just because you hit 10% BF doesn’t mean you have a good base. There are lots of guys out there at even less than that with little to no muscle.

The ability to bulk and gain lean mass is independent of your bodyfat level (within reason, of course). I’m not sure why anyone would say otherwise unless they are trying to sell you something.

come on mate i do not want to post for the sake of doing it neither to argue what you are saying is obvious. it is obvious that i am referring to a person that has muscles but also a higher % of fat; hence first shed fat and keep the muscles and then starting bulking and the 10 % is optimal.

About the diet it works very well by expreince (i am doing it) and then becasue refer to % fat of your body hence is tailored to suit u. This diet can be modified to bulk when the optimum % of fat is reached…you obtain bulking without putting too much fat

I’m not purposely arguing with you. What you are stating is dogma. Show me the scientific research that shows that 10% BF is the optimal level for anything.[/quote]

There’s no ‘optimal’. But it really doesn’t matter. It’s as good a place as any to start. And it can help ensure a nice, long bulk. Some good leeway before a person is getting to a level of bodyfat that they’re not comfortable with and feel the desire to do some good leaning out.

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:

i read the article about the megadosing of BCAA and their anabolic properties and i would agree (i work as lecturer and researcher at UK sport sciences academic dept)but i do not want to risk i read 2 studies by very well know italian scientists that found a positive correlations between ALS and high inteake of BCAA. [/quote]

Would you please provide some more information on this? I have never heard of any such correlation.

[quote]superdad4 wrote:

Would you please provide some more information on this? I have never heard of any such correlation.
[/quote]

off course, that i know there are other studies that are testing this hypothesis but (high intake of BCAA= ALS) the already data are pretty worrying:
some STUDIES that i read

http://www.ausl.mo.it/informo/sicura...nacore%201.pdf
(for some reasons i cannot write the copy the link; once i did and submit is not complete??)
(recent study;Eur J Epidemiol. 2005 ;20:237-42 )

==================

BCAA and high mortality in people already having ALS
Abstract

Branched-chain amino acids and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis: a treatment failure? The Italian ALS Study Group.
We initiated a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to test the efficacy and safety of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) (L-leucine 12 g, L-isoleucine 6 g, and L-valine 6 g daily) in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) patients. There was an EXCESS OF MORTALITY in subjects randomized to active treatment (24 BCAA, 13 placebo) when a total of 126 ALS patients had been recruited. This finding, associated with the lack of efficacy of BCAA (measured by comparing the disability scales in the two treatment groups), led the Data Monitoring Committee to require CESSATION of the trial.
Neurology. 1993 Dec ;43:2466-70 [Pubmed] [Scholar] [SelectDrop] [HideShow]

[quote]okinawa69 wrote:
superdad4 wrote:

Would you please provide some more information on this? I have never heard of any such correlation.

off course, that i know there are other studies that are testing this hypothesis but (high intake of BCAA= ALS) the already data are pretty worrying:
some STUDIES that i read

http://www.ausl.mo.it/informo/sicura...nacore%201.pdf
(for some reasons i cannot write the copy the link; once i did and submit is not complete??)
(recent study;Eur J Epidemiol. 2005 ;20:237-42 )

==================

BCAA and high mortality in people already having ALS
Abstract

Branched-chain amino acids and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis: a treatment failure? The Italian ALS Study Group.
We initiated a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to test the efficacy and safety of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) (L-leucine 12 g, L-isoleucine 6 g, and L-valine 6 g daily) in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) patients. There was an EXCESS OF MORTALITY in subjects randomized to active treatment (24 BCAA, 13 placebo) when a total of 126 ALS patients had been recruited. This finding, associated with the lack of efficacy of BCAA (measured by comparing the disability scales in the two treatment groups), led the Data Monitoring Committee to require CESSATION of the trial.
Neurology. 1993 Dec ;43:2466-70 [Pubmed] [Scholar] [SelectDrop] [HideShow]

[/quote]

I am confused by your conclusions. Doesn’t this (limited)study indicate there might be a correlation between higher mortality rates with patients who already have ALS taking BCAAs? I don’t see how you came to the conclusion that high intake of BCAA=ALS.

[quote]superdad4 wrote:
I am confused by your conclusions. Doesn’t this (limited)study indicate there might be a correlation between higher mortality rates with patients who already have ALS taking BCAAs? I don’t see how you came to the conclusion that high intake of BCAA=ALS.
[/quote]

you should not; i mentioned 2 study one

1)positive correlationship between intake of BCAA and onset of AlS in athletes (football players)which u did not read it

http://www.ausl.mo.it/…nacore%201.pdf
(for some reasons i cannot write the copy the link; once i did and submit is not complete??)
(recent study;Eur J Epidemiol. 2005 ;20:237-42 )

  1. the research which stated positive correlationship between high intake of BCAA and mortality in peole already having ALS

i believe a person should not be a genius to see that this data are alarming + as said there are few studies undergoing further investigations. So it would be sensible untill clarification is reached not to take high quantity of BCAA