T Nation

Best Attack In A Fight

Inspired by the Which MA? thread, I thought I’d see what you feel would be the best first strike/s to execute in a fight.

If I could kick accurately, I would certainly go for a leg kick. They are extremely painful, devastating to someone who’s never taken one, unexpected, allow one to stay out of their opponent’s punching range and are safer and simpler to throw than high kicks which require more balance and finesse.

Second choice would be for a combo of eye rakes then a)heel of the palm strikes and b) an elbow.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
Inspired by the Which MA? thread, I thought I’d see what you feel would be the best first strike/s to execute in a fight.

If I could kick accurately, I would certainly go for a leg kick. They are extremely painful, devastating to someone who’s never taken one, unexpected, allow one to stay out of their opponent’s punching range and are safer and simpler to throw than high kicks which require more balance and finesse.

Second choice would be for a combo of eye rakes then a)heel of the palm strikes and b) an elbow.[/quote]

What exactly is the point of palm strikes? Less range than a punch, and a softer surface. Is there something I’m missing?

my fist, his soon to be busted jaw.

A quick jab to the nose. which will stun the guy. Then follow with the other hand as hard as you can. but remember the jab has to be pretty stong and fast or the second punch will never happen.

then kick the front or the side of the knee. you know make it go the opposite direction it is suppost to go.

if you can get that in on a guy he is usually all yours after that.

now granted I have uses this and it doesnt work all the time. so you gotta have something to come back with if you cant get the kick in.

Most guys talk alot before they get into a fight. This is why you wack’em on the side of thatjaw. Hitting the jaw itself is pointless, as it is a bone shaped like an “A” and is resistant to head on shots. So if you take it from the side, it seperates much easier, especially if the dude is talking.

Otherwise, there is a nerve that runs from the ear down the neck, and if you punch someone on the side of the neck, it is like getting a shot to the balls. It can incapacitate someone…but be careful, as if you miss and punch the dude in the throat, you’re screwed. A shot to this nerve hurts like hell, but causes no serious damage. Like slammin your dick in a door.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Most guys talk alot before they get into a fight. This is why you wack’em on the side of thatjaw. Hitting the jaw itself is pointless, as it is a bone shaped like an “A” and is resistant to head on shots. So if you take it from the side, it seperates much easier, especially if the dude is talking.

Otherwise, there is a nerve that runs from the ear down the neck, and if you punch someone on the side of the neck, it is like getting a shot to the balls. It can incapacitate someone…but be careful, as if you miss and punch the dude in the throat, you’re screwed. A shot to this nerve hurts like hell, but causes no serious damage. Like slammin your dick in a door. [/quote]

Actually punching the jaw head on is better than the side, because it pushes the back of the jaw into those very nerves in your neck. That is where alot of the boxing KO’s come from.

[quote]TwoScoops wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Most guys talk alot before they get into a fight. This is why you wack’em on the side of thatjaw. Hitting the jaw itself is pointless, as it is a bone shaped like an “A” and is resistant to head on shots. So if you take it from the side, it seperates much easier, especially if the dude is talking.

Otherwise, there is a nerve that runs from the ear down the neck, and if you punch someone on the side of the neck, it is like getting a shot to the balls. It can incapacitate someone…but be careful, as if you miss and punch the dude in the throat, you’re screwed. A shot to this nerve hurts like hell, but causes no serious damage. Like slammin your dick in a door.

Actually punching the jaw head on is better than the side, because it pushes the back of the jaw into those very nerves in your neck. That is where alot of the boxing KO’s come from.
[/quote]

Never thought of that! However, if someone has their jaw clenched, it maked this harder, doesn’t it?

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
What exactly is the point of palm strikes? Less range than a punch, and a softer surface. Is there something I’m missing?[/quote]

Removes the wrist joint as a possible source of energy loss on striking. Less chance of breaking your hand.

If you’re getting in close, perhaps less range required to throw a strike could be advantageous?

My preference would be to use the palm strike on boney areas. I also like using an open hand for deflecting/parrying.

[quote]Vyapada wrote:
What exactly is the point of palm strikes? Less range than a punch, and a softer surface. Is there something I’m missing?

Removes the wrist joint as a possible source of energy loss on striking. Less chance of breaking your hand.

If you’re getting in close, perhaps less range required to throw a strike could be advantageous?

My preference would be to use the palm strike on boney areas. I also like using an open hand for deflecting/parrying.[/quote]

No! Very few people who know the feal strike with the knuckels! They break easy. The palm transefers it down your arm. PUnch a wall, then palm strike it. The difference in pain is amazing. Plus, a palm strike opens up a world of maimers to pull on the guy’s vitals (eyes, ears. etc)

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Vyapada wrote:
PUnch a wall, then palm strike it. The difference in pain is amazing. [/quote]

Pussy. Mate those walls shake in fear when I walk by.

If you know how to punch correctly the risks are minimised however there is always a risk of damage when considering a collision of what is basically bone to bone. I’d say people hurt their wrists more though.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
Inspired by the Which MA? thread, I thought I’d see what you feel would be the best first strike/s to execute in a fight.

If I could kick accurately, I would certainly go for a leg kick. They are extremely painful, devastating to someone who’s never taken one, unexpected, allow one to stay out of their opponent’s punching range and are safer and simpler to throw than high kicks which require more balance and finesse.

Second choice would be for a combo of eye rakes then a)heel of the palm strikes and b) an elbow.

What exactly is the point of palm strikes? Less range than a punch, and a softer surface. Is there something I’m missing?[/quote]

  1. Potentially more power for 2 reasons: (a) The hand is possibly the weakest link in the punching chain (small bones etc) so the palm strike (using the heel of the hand as the point of contact) effectively allows you to hit with the end of your forearm bone which = very hard hitting; and (b) relaxation is essential for hard/fast punching. Try tensing all the muscles in your arm and throwing a fast punch. You cant. The law of irradiation prevents you from relaxing muscles proximate to muscles which are tense, By striking with an open hand, you can relax the arm more and punch faster and consequently, harder.

  2. Safety. This comes back to the point that the bones of the knuckle are typically smaller and weaker than the bones of just about any part of your opponent that you would want to hit (especially on the head). I cant count how many times I’ve heard of someone breaking their hand by punching someone.

  3. Maximum damage. This is a smaller point but once you’ve hit someone in the face with a palm, things like grabs, scratches, gouges, holds etc are easier to apply immediately following the strike.

  4. Telegraphing. If I’m going to hit someone, I dont want to let them know I’m going to do it; gives them a chance to do something about it. I want to get my hand close to them before I do it (forget about huge swings to pick up speed - you need to be able to hit a VERY short range with maximum power and that means training that skill hard). An open hand is easy to get near someone. Try getting a fist near them without giving away what you are doing…

[quote]will-of-iron wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
Inspired by the Which MA? thread, I thought I’d see what you feel would be the best first strike/s to execute in a fight.

If I could kick accurately, I would certainly go for a leg kick. They are extremely painful, devastating to someone who’s never taken one, unexpected, allow one to stay out of their opponent’s punching range and are safer and simpler to throw than high kicks which require more balance and finesse.

Second choice would be for a combo of eye rakes then a)heel of the palm strikes and b) an elbow.

What exactly is the point of palm strikes? Less range than a punch, and a softer surface. Is there something I’m missing?

  1. Potentially more power for 2 reasons: (a) The hand is possibly the weakest link in the punching chain (small bones etc) so the palm strike (using the heel of the hand as the point of contact) effectively allows you to hit with the end of your forearm bone which = very hard hitting; and (b) relaxation is essential for hard/fast punching. Try tensing all the muscles in your arm and throwing a fast punch. You cant. The law of irradiation prevents you from relaxing muscles proximate to muscles which are tense, By striking with an open hand, you can relax the arm more and punch faster and consequently, harder.

  2. Safety. This comes back to the point that the bones of the knuckle are typically smaller and weaker than the bones of just about any part of your opponent that you would want to hit (especially on the head). I cant count how many times I’ve heard of someone breaking their hand by punching someone.
    [/quote]
    Indeed. Now you can break your hand but it is usually the last 2 knuckles on your hand. The pinkie and the ring finger. If you make a fist and hit with only the first 2 knuckles then they are very hard to break. Because like the palm strike the first 2 knuckles line up with the bones in your forearm. Now granted not everyone can hit everytime with just thoughs 2 knuckles. But, any kind of MA training teaches both. A palm strike for close up and then to hit with the first 2 knuckles from a distance. Both are still very effective.[quote]

  3. Maximum damage. This is a smaller point but once you’ve hit someone in the face with a palm, things like grabs, scratches, gouges, holds etc are easier to apply immediately following the strike.

  4. Telegraphing. If I’m going to hit someone, I dont want to let them know I’m going to do it; gives them a chance to do something about it. I want to get my hand close to them before I do it (forget about huge swings to pick up speed - you need to be able to hit a VERY short range with maximum power and that means training that skill hard). An open hand is easy to get near someone. Try getting a fist near them without giving away what you are doing…

[/quote]

[quote]Goku_SS4 wrote:
will-of-iron wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
Inspired by the Which MA? thread, I thought I’d see what you feel would be the best first strike/s to execute in a fight.

If I could kick accurately, I would certainly go for a leg kick. They are extremely painful, devastating to someone who’s never taken one, unexpected, allow one to stay out of their opponent’s punching range and are safer and simpler to throw than high kicks which require more balance and finesse.

Second choice would be for a combo of eye rakes then a)heel of the palm strikes and b) an elbow.

What exactly is the point of palm strikes? Less range than a punch, and a softer surface. Is there something I’m missing?

  1. Potentially more power for 2 reasons: (a) The hand is possibly the weakest link in the punching chain (small bones etc) so the palm strike (using the heel of the hand as the point of contact) effectively allows you to hit with the end of your forearm bone which = very hard hitting; and (b) relaxation is essential for hard/fast punching. Try tensing all the muscles in your arm and throwing a fast punch. You cant. The law of irradiation prevents you from relaxing muscles proximate to muscles which are tense, By striking with an open hand, you can relax the arm more and punch faster and consequently, harder.

  2. Safety. This comes back to the point that the bones of the knuckle are typically smaller and weaker than the bones of just about any part of your opponent that you would want to hit (especially on the head). I cant count how many times I’ve heard of someone breaking their hand by punching someone.

Indeed. Now you can break your hand but it is usually the last 2 knuckles on your hand. The pinkie and the ring finger. If you make a fist and hit with only the first 2 knuckles then they are very hard to break. Because like the palm strike the first 2 knuckles line up with the bones in your forearm. Now granted not everyone can hit everytime with just thoughs 2 knuckles. But, any kind of MA training teaches both. A palm strike for close up and then to hit with the first 2 knuckles from a distance. Both are still very effective.

  1. Maximum damage. This is a smaller point but once you’ve hit someone in the face with a palm, things like grabs, scratches, gouges, holds etc are easier to apply immediately following the strike.

  2. Telegraphing. If I’m going to hit someone, I dont want to let them know I’m going to do it; gives them a chance to do something about it. I want to get my hand close to them before I do it (forget about huge swings to pick up speed - you need to be able to hit a VERY short range with maximum power and that means training that skill hard). An open hand is easy to get near someone. Try getting a fist near them without giving away what you are doing…

Good stuff, I agree. Both have their place.

[/quote]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Most guys talk alot before they get into a fight. This is why you wack’em on the side of thatjaw. So if you take it from the side, it seperates much easier, especially if the dude is talking. [/quote]

Spot on, if you know it really is going to kick off this is the best form of attack, i’ve practiced Muay Thai on and off for eight years, and kicks never come into the picture, i’d rather he was out cold from a cross to the jaw than him falling over or stepping back when i roundhouse, it could then start to get messy, on the floor etc. Leave the kicks to Bruce n van Damme!

[quote]bomberlow wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Most guys talk alot before they get into a fight. This is why you wack’em on the side of thatjaw. So if you take it from the side, it seperates much easier, especially if the dude is talking.

Spot on, if you know it really is going to kick off this is the best form of attack, i’ve practiced Muay Thai on and off for eight years, and kicks never come into the picture, i’d rather he was out cold from a cross to the jaw than him falling over or stepping back when i roundhouse, it could then start to get messy, on the floor etc. Leave the kicks to Bruce n van Damme![/quote]

If kicks never come into the picture then you need to work on your footwork. You aren’t doing TKD so what is your problem?

[quote]jacross wrote:
If kicks never come into the picture then you need to work on your footwork. You aren’t doing TKD so what is your problem?[/quote]

??? Am i wrong or was the original post about a street fight? Believe me when i’m sparring in a ring my footwork is more than adequate, but using a kick as the first form of attack in a ‘real’ fight, fuck no. The only two ‘real’ fights i’ve been unlucky enough to get involved in, my first attack for both these was not a kick but a good solid right cross to their jaw, the first time it caught sweet and sparked him out the second scuffle i had was not so clean, the first cross didn’t connect as well and i had to stop him from getting up again with another cross to the same place. I was lucky in both those situations, because i knew at any moment they were going to hit me and i was quicker and hit them first. I guess that’s my problem!

A punch to the jaw is damn effective because it can knock someone out and you are less likely to break your hand on someones jaw than you are on other parts of the head.

Choking someone out is also pretty effective and relatively easy.

Kicks are more of a distraction than anything else.

Of course I haven’t been in a real fight (outside of a few punch ups on the rugby pitch) in almost 20 years.

[quote]bomberlow wrote:
jacross wrote:
If kicks never come into the picture then you need to work on your footwork. You aren’t doing TKD so what is your problem?

??? Am i wrong or was the original post about a street fight? Believe me when i’m sparring in a ring my footwork is more than adequate, but using a kick as the first form of attack in a ‘real’ fight, fuck no. ![/quote]

Spot on.

Not your problem at all. This is the ONLY way to defend yourself effectively. All the crap you hear about waiting for them to strike and countering is what you HAVE to do if you screwed up by letting them get a shot in first - which is not the way to begin. Once you know (or fear) that someone is going to hit you are morally and legally entitled to pre-empt that by striking first (just make sure you hit them until they are immobilised long enough for you to get out of there - dont go overboard though! it must be reasonable force!)

if you can get in close enough without gettin clocked, an elbow dropped onto the collar bone will put out nearly anyone. It only takes like 16 lbs. of pressure or soemthing like that to break it, which both hurts like hell and severely limits one’s ability to punch back.

I’d say walk away… there aren’t many things on this earth worth risking your life for.