Berlusconi Wiretaps, What Justification?

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Rohnyn are you fucking serious man. This is the leader of the fuckin’ country. You can’t fucking have your leader going around fucking random girls, yet alone underaged girls. He’s supposed to be a public servant and doing his job to make Italy a better place to live. The man is a joke and the simple fact that he’s a billionaire should dissuaded have anyone for voting for him. How an idiot like him can hold such a high position in government is a poignant footnote for Italy and the Italian people and Europe as a whole.[/quote]
I think this is a difference in culture. As an Englishman type you expect the leader of your country to be some prude puritanical type, as a Latin, I expect the leader of a country to be strong and nothing more. In fact, and in excess in strength, also comes to be an excess in appetites. I am disgusted by th Queen Elizabeth more than Berlusconi.[/quote]

0/10 for trolling please try again

Yeah he’s not on the take but he’s on the other extreme. Just admit it the dude is a joke, the Italian people deserve a better leader, just as Austria deserves better representation on T-Nation than you.

Yes I went there.

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Yeah he’s not on the take but he’s on the other extreme. Just admit it the dude is a joke, the Italian people deserve a better leader, just as Austria deserves better representation on T-Nation than you.

Yes I went there.[/quote]

So, lets see:

Did he start a war? No.

Does he have people tortured or renditioned? No.

Does he spy on his own citizens on every step and turn? No. Bonus points for getting spied on by his citizens!

Do his goons fondle kids in airports and look infinitely better in their little Armani uniforms than the average TSA thug? No, and naturalmente.

Does the Italian police make regular Youtube appearances beating up, shooting or killing innocent people, then lie about it and get away with it? Hell no.

Does the Italian IRS or Wildlife services have SWAT teams and/or is every second parking ticket delivered at 2 a.m. after a flashbang went of in your bedroom? Unthinkable.

Does he have a budget deficit of a mere 3% after pushing tax cuts through? Why yes!

Now I sincerely hope that Americans never have to put up with that kind of shit and have people to look up to, like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden.

Yeah, I went there.

Granted, I do that quite often, but still.

Has Obama even done any of that shit? What about Merkel?

Does he disrespect his country and make them look like fools on the international stage? Why yes!

Honestly, all those things you’ve mentioned shouldn’t be done when you have a competent person in office. What’s so wrong with pushing out this clown and replacing him with a guy that understands social and economic issues and doesn’t make an ass of himself. You’re making it sound like these kind of people are a diamond in the rough…

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
Just wondering, if anyone has been following this…I get the guy screwed some teen prostitutes…big deal, hes a billionaire, let him have some fun but…why the wiretaps? I mean who is doing the wiretaps who authorized it, why? Is it just me or would it be absolutely unacceptable for the CIA and FBI to wiretap letsay Clinton, Bush or Obama for teh sake of bring them down. I understand in the case of mafia investigations or drug charges, but wtf, the guys sex life, wtf, seriously?

Anywone feel the same way? What is the justification?[/quote]

Ok, let’s start:

After one of the prostitutes (Karima from the picture above) was arrested for shoplifting, he called the police station and ordered her release, claiming she was the granddaughter of the Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak.

If you set up your “evening partners” with parliament and ministry seats, then this is a problem.

Not to mention he used public funds for this and used to hang around some very criminal types.

One of the girls in question, even claimed that she fucked him because her fathers shopping center building site has been sealed by the building inspectors.

The problem is that, even the mildest critique against him is a “vast international conspiracy of the left”, including when the paparazzi filmed the former Czech prime minister doing one of the girls outside of Berlusconi’s villa.

The problem is that Berlusconi dominates the political discourse in Italy. By identifying himself with the country you are either for him or against him, and any political debate is stifled. He’s even changing his party name to “Italia”

He controls most of the airwaves so when his wife Veronica Lario left him for doing underage girls on major channels owned by Silvio there were special TV shows speaking against her.

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Has Obama even done any of that shit? What about Merkel?

Does he disrespect his country and make them look like fools on the international stage? Why yes!

Honestly, all those things you’ve mentioned shouldn’t be done when you have a competent person in office. What’s so wrong with pushing out this clown and replacing him with a guy that understands social and economic issues and doesn’t make an ass of himself. You’re making it sound like these kind of people are a diamond in the rough…[/quote]

No, he is the best that you could hope for in a democracy.

There is a difference.

And yes, of course Obama has done that shit.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Has Obama even done any of that shit? What about Merkel?

Does he disrespect his country and make them look like fools on the international stage? Why yes!

Honestly, all those things you’ve mentioned shouldn’t be done when you have a competent person in office. What’s so wrong with pushing out this clown and replacing him with a guy that understands social and economic issues and doesn’t make an ass of himself. You’re making it sound like these kind of people are a diamond in the rough…[/quote]

No, he is the best that you could hope for in a democracy.

There is a difference.

And yes, of course Obama has done that shit.

[/quote]

Obama is an admitted drug dealer.

Our leaders are only human, that is why we shouldn’t give then power.

Rohnyn you goddamn fool, Berlusconi is not “just” facing charges for this, he’s had a pile of fucking scandals in his name over the years. Max, correct me if I’m wrong (and I don’t think I am)…

I was skiing up in Tahoe a few years back and shared a ski lift with an Italian engineer working for Rossignol (he was testing out some equipment he said, that lucky bastard). I asked him, “What’s up with your leader? Do you Italians always make a joke of politics like he does?”

He said Berlusconi is one corrupt motherfucker: the guy tried to pass a tax credit for people who bought a certain digital TV set top box…why? Turns out that box was manufactured by his brother’s company. At least, that is what the Italian guy told me.

But Berlusconi’s been in the news for much more than that. Don’t think this is his “first time” in scandal.

And whoever mentioned Berlusconi’s spending and overall “grade,” wake the fuck up. Just because you “do” your job (objectively, the figures are there) doesn’t mean you are an ethical person or have done the job ethically. That is why this guy is such a problem. He’s an unethical fuck.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Rohnyn you goddamn fool, Berlusconi is not “just” facing charges for this, he’s had a pile of fucking scandals in his name over the years. Max, correct me if I’m wrong (and I don’t think I am)…

I was skiing up in Tahoe a few years back and shared a ski lift with an Italian engineer working for Rossignol (he was testing out some equipment he said, that lucky bastard). I asked him, “What’s up with your leader? Do you Italians always make a joke of politics like he does?”

He said Berlusconi is one corrupt motherfucker: the guy tried to pass a tax credit for people who bought a certain digital TV set top box…why? Turns out that box was manufactured by his brother’s company. At least, that is what the Italian guy told me.

But Berlusconi’s been in the news for much more than that. Don’t think this is his “first time” in scandal.

And whoever mentioned Berlusconi’s spending and overall “grade,” wake the fuck up. Just because you “do” your job (objectively, the figures are there) doesn’t mean you are an ethical person or have done the job ethically. That is why this guy is such a problem. He’s an unethical fuck.[/quote]

Yes, he is a politician.

So?

I still don’t see how Berlusconi has done anything out of the norm. Something about getting laid bothers the American soul so deeply, yet outright war profiteering is a passable offense.

I’ve read a bit on Berlusconi, there have been charges, none of them stuck. So you’re going to get the guy on having a teen gf? Really?

And what politicians, are ethical btw? I have yet to meet one or see one.

Obama was mixed up in Chicago machine and Russian mob, this come out with his house deal. Not to mention, all the admissions of past crimes he made in his books. Let’s not even talk about Bush, but if you wanna talk Cosa Nostra, it doesn’t even get worse than that, yet, at least the Mafia are Italians…Bush was in bed with Muslim oil tycoons, Jew lobbyists, and Christian Crusader war profiteer types…and your telling me, Italy is laughable because of…their pm screwing a hot chick…

You all are out of your mind.

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I still don’t see how Berlusconi has done anything out of the norm. Something about getting laid bothers the American soul so deeply, yet outright war profiteering is a passable offense.

I’ve read a bit on Berlusconi, there have been charges, none of them stuck.
[/quote]

Charges tend not to stick if you pass a law granting yourself immunity from prosecution.

[quote]loppar wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I still don’t see how Berlusconi has done anything out of the norm. Something about getting laid bothers the American soul so deeply, yet outright war profiteering is a passable offense.

I’ve read a bit on Berlusconi, there have been charges, none of them stuck.
[/quote]

Charges tend not to stick if you pass a law granting yourself immunity from prosecution.
[/quote]

Well that at least shows a superficial respect for the rule of law that I sorely missed in some other administrations.

Also:

[quote]loppar wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I still don’t see how Berlusconi has done anything out of the norm. Something about getting laid bothers the American soul so deeply, yet outright war profiteering is a passable offense.

I’ve read a bit on Berlusconi, there have been charges, none of them stuck.
[/quote]

Charges tend not to stick if you pass a law granting yourself immunity from prosecution.
[/quote]
Care to enlighten me of what the F you’re talking about? The man isn’t Qaddafi or Pinochet, he can’t give himself immunity.

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]loppar wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I still don’t see how Berlusconi has done anything out of the norm. Something about getting laid bothers the American soul so deeply, yet outright war profiteering is a passable offense.

I’ve read a bit on Berlusconi, there have been charges, none of them stuck.
[/quote]

Charges tend not to stick if you pass a law granting yourself immunity from prosecution.
[/quote]
Care to enlighten me of what the F you’re talking about? The man isn’t Qaddafi or Pinochet, he can’t give himself immunity.[/quote]

Oh yes, he can.

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]loppar wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I still don’t see how Berlusconi has done anything out of the norm. Something about getting laid bothers the American soul so deeply, yet outright war profiteering is a passable offense.

I’ve read a bit on Berlusconi, there have been charges, none of them stuck.
[/quote]

Charges tend not to stick if you pass a law granting yourself immunity from prosecution.
[/quote]
Care to enlighten me of what the F you’re talking about? The man isn’t Qaddafi or Pinochet, he can’t give himself immunity.[/quote]

Latest developments:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/01/12/bloomberg1376-LEYT870YHQ0X01-5GCA6U8D3OQ9OKH6U9RT6KJ4IC.DTL

The entire purpose of Berlusconi’s party (Popolo della Liberta) is to shield him from prosecution in any way or form and advance his personal interests. At the same time his broadcasting empire is putting enormous media pressure on all branches of the judiciary, political opponents and even on the state-run RAI television.

Here’s a campaign song which frankly seems more fitting for Belarus than Italy:

Berlusconi has had charges of corruption going back years. He’s one sleazy guy. the fact he’s still in power says more about the abject state of opposition in Italy than anything else. They can barely get their shit together. Although Berlusconi now has to rely on Lega Nord and only just survived a vote of no confidence by bribing everyone, any competent opposition would have had him out on his ear pronto

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:

[quote]loppar wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
I still don’t see how Berlusconi has done anything out of the norm. Something about getting laid bothers the American soul so deeply, yet outright war profiteering is a passable offense.

I’ve read a bit on Berlusconi, there have been charges, none of them stuck.
[/quote]

Charges tend not to stick if you pass a law granting yourself immunity from prosecution.
[/quote]
Care to enlighten me of what the F you’re talking about? The man isn’t Qaddafi or Pinochet, he can’t give himself immunity.[/quote]

Oh yes, he can.

[/quote]

In the US they are now making rules that are “not subject to judicial review.”

I guess when the man himself defends Berlusconi’s sexual activity, that says enough (but only on Silvio’s sex life):

(this is for Max)

The debate raging in Italy about Silvio Berlusconi’s alleged taste for teenage girls and prostitutes has taken a surreal turn, after the country’s top porn star weighed in with high praise for the prime minister. “The truth is,” said Rocco Siffredi, “that Italians are proud of someone like Berlusconi who is 74, loves sex and has a good sex life â?? and I don’t just mean working-class Italians.”

Siffredi, 46, was named by an adult film industry listing as one of the world’s 50 top porn stars and is now a celebrity, appearing on Italian chat shows. He told the Observer that, if Berlusconi can avoid jail for allegedly paying a teenager for sex and pressuring the police into covering it up, he will be forgiven by Italian voters. “In any other country he would have been forced out years ago, but here he gets away with it,” said Siffredi.

Following Berlusconi’s refusal to submit to questioning, Milan magistrates will now request he stand trial before the summer without a pre-trial hearing. His lawyers are expected to try to halt the trial by arguing that it should be handled by a special tribunal for politicians.

Two years after Berlusconi’s wife left him over his friendship with teenager Noemi Letizia, and a prostitute, Patrizia D’Addario, claimed to have slept with him, Berlusconi is again facing criticism after accusations that he had sex with pole-dancing prostitutes at parties at his mansion near Milan. One guest, Nadia Macrì, described Berlusconi lying on a bed calling out “Next” as women queued to have sex with him.

Berlusconi’s troubles deepened tonight when for the first time one of the women named in the prostitution investigation admitted that she had sex with him. Maria Ester Garcia Polanco, 25, denied that she did so in exchange for money but her admission makes her the first of the so-called “bunga bunga” girls â?? a group of 14 women whom Milan prosecutors allege played striptease games and had sex with the prime minister â?? to state publicly that she slept with him.

Polanco told La Repubblica she did so out of gratitude because he had paid for urgent medical treatment for her five-year-old daughter and had helped her find work as a television showgirl.

Prosecutors are also examining allegations that Berlusconi paid to sleep with Moroccan nightclub dancer Karima el-Mahroug when she was 17. It has also been alleged that Berlusconi pressured police to free her when she was later arrested on suspicion of theft. On Thursday, in a statement clearly directed at Berlusconi, the Vatican demanded “a more robust morality and sense of legality” from Italy’s rulers.

The fallout from the continuing revelations has created the most serious test of Berlusconi’s premiership. Opposition leader Pierluigi Bersani has vowed to collect 10 million signatures calling for Berlusconi to step down. Meanwhile, the head of the residents’ association at a plush Milan apartment complex last week evicted a dozen or so “models” allegedly housed there by Berlusconi.

Beppe Severgnini, a columnist, warned it was too soon to write off Berlusconi. “All Italians have an affinity with him,” he said. “He is a walking absolution for our sins â?? and we have been living in the valley of complicity for a long time.”

Half of the Italians interviewed for a poll as the scandal broke said the latest headlines would not affect Berlusconi and could even push up his ratings. Scepticism was not hard to find on Rome’s streets this weekend. “He should be less obvious about it, but he is free to do what he wants â?? look at Bill Clinton,” said Francesco Nobili, 33, a personal trainer. Salvatore, a blacksmith, said: “I would give my daughter a slap if she went to a party at Berlusconi’s, but I still vote for him since I approve of his politics.”

Berlusconi’s fightback got under way with video messages claiming that his parties were innocent affairs and that magistrates had operated outside the law by wire-tapping his guests. Supporters were drafted onto chat shows to pour doubt on el-Mahroug’s claims that Berlusconi knew she was under age.

Siffredi, who crossed paths with Mahroug on a talk show on Tuesday, said he suspected that Berlusconi would not worry too much about a girl’s real age if she looked over 20. He described Berlusconi as a sex addict. “I have sex one half of a half of a half of the times he does,” he said in a Facebook video. By mixing power with sex, he added, “by doing to whoever you want what you want”, Berlusconi was living out his own fantasies.

That approach, he added, would not lose him votes in Italy. “Just as my appeal is based on being a family man off the set, Berlusconi understands that being a family man is important, as is staying on the right side of the church,” he said.

“Berlusconi and I have a lot in common,” Siffredi added. “I have been reliably informed that he once said ‘Siffredi and I both have the same problem: priapism’.”

I need to speak with my family in Rome and get their input on this. I would like to hear what the locals have to say about this.

Personally, I don’t think this will cost him much in Italy, as far as votes. He will let time cool things off, he will lay low, and people will go back to their cappuccinos and pasta. He will make a contribution to the church, which always seems to put you in good standings with the Lord in Rome. The mindset is different there, there is no legal drinking age that I am aware of, and their views on sex are much different there. Within a week or so, it will be old news. That’s just my opinion.