I have given several reason why this is complicated, at least for my locale…
None of my concerns have been addressed?
For $150/month I get 220mg/ml. I can put you in touch if you need a doc. Shipped right to your door with syringes and everything else. Includes lab work.
Where are you located?
Couple of questions concerning this…
Are you in the US?
What size vials?
What if you want to test the theory at hand and push Free T to 40 as was stated? Will your doc keep upping your prescription until you achieve these levels?
If the answer to the first and last question is yes, does your doc operate out of the back of a dark van?
Did his degree come from a college in Belize? (ARod scandal humor there)
Montana
My email is in my profile… Feel free…
I’m in the US. I get 10ml every 2 months. Compound pharmacy Test cypionate.
Here’s my levels. He operates out of his doctor’s office. It’s 100% legal and legit plus it’s changed my life in ways I’m so thankful for.
I have amazing libido, lost a ton of fat, gained some good muscle mass but most importantly I feel like a human again. For me 185-200mg/week doing daily injections is my sweet spot where I get all the good stuff without any negative effects. I tried a gazillion protocols before I got here.
The docs don’t try to attain a certain level as you say. They increase the dose over time until symptoms resolve. To whatever that number might be for that specific patient. Some need less, some need more. They are treating symptoms. They aren’t treating numbers on a piece of paper.
I’m not questioning results, I’ll try to make it more clear…
By what you are saying, your protocol is 275mg / week right? So what if it took 350mg / weel to get you where you need to be. Can your doc legally prescribe that? This seems to be the question that nobody wants to put an answer to.
Guys, Dr Nichols is out… I just spoke with him.
We can’t show you that running a free T of 50 for 20 years, for example, years is not harmful but we can’t show you that it is either. We can show you the improved quality of life. We can’t show you anything negative it has caused but we can show you a decrease in insulin resistance, an improvement in lipid profiles, a reduced inflammatory state, increased bone mineral density. Who doesn’t want that? You are all stuck on numbers that is making things much more difficult for you to do what it takes to feel better. There are guys in the group who have been doing it this way for DECADES (because they figured it out long before any of us) and all in perfect health. My health has improved drastically. I haven’t been sick in over 2 years. I’m 45 and I feel better than I felt in my late twenties.
@bmbrady the docs will resist to prescribe that much because the pharmacies will report them to the medical boards due to the package insertion on the vial that says ‘max dose is 200mg per week’. With the compounded cream, there is no value indicated as a ‘max dose’. Therefore it is way better suited for docs to use to get the levels up where they need to be to resolve someone’s issues and restore their health. This is the way TRT is headed.
I think this is where you are getting confused. NONE of us are stuck on the number, hell who doesn’t want to push test, at least every once in a while? The concern is again…long term repercussions, which as you said really can’t yet be proven…and legal repercussions…
The cream used is a 20% concentration, versabase, 200mg/gram, using micronized testosterone. Typical dose is 50-150mg twice daily. Dr Nichols typically starts men at 100mg twice daily (as it is the most consistent dose to get the job done) and adjusts from there if necessary.
Ok now the other side of that coin…
Not even considering convenience, what is the COST difference in cream vs injected testosterone?
No like it states in the post 185-200mg/week. He can legally prescribe whatever amount he can justify. I doubt he would prescribe someone 350mg/week without working up to that dosing and showing thoroughly that it is warranted if so. It isn’t about giving large amounts it’s about giving the amount that works. You start low and work to what amount is needed. The doc just needs to be able to show why someone is prescribed that dose in case they are audited. Most don’t need 350mg so if 99.3% of his practice is on much less but there are a few that require a higher dose than he can show its warranted and that he’s not running a 350mg T mill.
I’m in medical device sales. I see surgeons all the time use ankle plates on an elbow. It’s specifically stated by the manufacturer that it isn’t for use on anywhere but an ankle but the doctor can legally put it anywhere he just has to show it is warranted. Doctors have discretion to use what they want but they have to show why they use it.
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@bmbrady77 there are no legal repercussions because there is nothing that states how the cream should be used. They encounter legal repercussions when using injectables.
If you state ‘high E2’ what ‘number’ implies it? My E2 could be 150 right now. A number on a piece of paper has no bearing on my life. E2 has only demonstrated to provide benefits, nothing else. What dose of testosterone is ‘high’? Is it the dose? Or measured total T? Or measured free T? At 250mg a week my total was 1068. So, is that high? Will my doc get in trouble?
See where I’m going with this? I encountered so many doctors that would lower my dose as soon as I started feeling better because of the number on the paper that they were taught to be afraid of. That isn’t medicine. That’s ignorance.
Most guys are spending between $40-50 a month for the cream. But that’s only for kings! 
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I agree. I could care less about the number, but strictly speaking…
- If the cream is considerably more expensive than a vial, then that could be an issue.
- If “Max” dose can only get my free T to 24, and I was obese, then what do I do from there?
Whether it’s the Free T causing the symptoms, or it was the excess E2 in relation to the lower Free T, who gives shit? What OPTIONS do I have? I’m already at MAX dose of what I can afford, so I can either try lowering my Test levels, or take something to bring E2 down so that the ratio of balance in my body does not cause me symptoms right?
No. You NEVER want to touch E2. Throw that entire philosophy out the window.
What is your exact protocol right now? Where are your free at levels last time you checked? What are your symptoms?