[/quote]
I agree. I could bench 405 when I quit doing barbell presses. I then moved to dumbbells and saw better growth. I then moved to HS machines.
[/quote]
purely out of intrest was that 405 for reps? as i rember reading u hit 315 for reps after a few years or months somewhere.
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
Is 260 lbs bad after 7 months of lifting?[/quote]
No one said 260lbs was bad. It is, however, too early to be excluding entire exercises from then on out.
[quote]
I think my gym might just be full of pussies cause I’m one of about a dozen guys who can go over 2 plates a side. Also i train to failure on my last set so i always look for a spotter.[/quote]
Most people in most gyms…and most people on this site apparently, train like pussies. I just got back from the gym and aside from me and one other guy, I doubt anyone else there could bench over 2 plates a side.
This is a bodybuilding forum. In general, we don’t give a shit what “average” people can do. I’m not average.
[quote]
But all that aside Prof x did your regular flat bench increase after years of training on machines? I’m curious because apparently my initial strength is an issue when switching to machines. I don’t want to NOT get any stronger because i switched to early, i just want to maximize potential growth in the chest.[/quote]
I haven’t even done a bench press in years so obviously if I decided to add it back in, there would be several weeks or months where my body would have to relearn the movement to do my best weight on it.
I currently do 540lbs for 8-10 reps on my last set of wide grip presses on a hammer Strength machine. Does that sound like my strength has stayed the same?
Do you understand that your body has to get used to a movement before you can go all out and do the most weight possible?
Do you understand that if you quit doing a movement for several years you would have get back in the groove of doing that movement before you could do the most weight?
I thought this was common sense. Am I wrong in assuming people just don’t think things through anymore?
[quote]
Also my form is “decent” by the way no leg flailing. I was lucky enough to have the Dave Tate instructional video come out just weeks after i started lifting.[/quote]
If your legs are flailing at all you need to get off the machine or bench before you hurt yourself.
[quote]sid132 wrote:
purely out of intrest was that 405 for reps? as i rember reading u hit 315 for reps after a few years or months somewhere.[/quote]
I had training partners back then who could spot me. Around the time we quit training together was around the time I was hitting that for about 2-3 reps with a spotter.
I gained strength pretty well as a beginner. I was curling 70lbs dumbbells after about 2 years of serious lifting around the time that my arms hit 18".
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
Is 260 lbs bad after 7 months of lifting?[/quote]
No one said 260lbs was bad. It is, however, too early to be excluding entire exercises from then on out.
[quote]
I think my gym might just be full of pussies cause I’m one of about a dozen guys who can go over 2 plates a side. Also i train to failure on my last set so i always look for a spotter.[/quote]
Most people in most gyms…and most people on this site apparently, train like pussies. I just got back from the gym and aside from me and one other guy, I doubt anyone else there could bench over 2 plates a side.
This is a bodybuilding forum. In general, we don’t give a shit what “average” people can do. I’m not average.
[quote]
But all that aside Prof x did your regular flat bench increase after years of training on machines? I’m curious because apparently my initial strength is an issue when switching to machines. I don’t want to NOT get any stronger because i switched to early, i just want to maximize potential growth in the chest.[/quote]
I haven’t even done a bench press in years so obviously if I decided to add it back in, there would be several weeks or months where my body would have to relearn the movement to do my best weight on it.
I currently do 540lbs for 8-10 reps on my last set of wide grip presses on a hammer Strength machine. Does that sound like my strength has stayed the same?
Do you understand that your body has to get used to a movement before you can go all out and do the most weight possible?
Do you understand that if you quit doing a movement for several years you would have get back in the groove of doing that movement before you could do the most weight?
I thought this was common sense. Am I wrong in assuming people just don’t think things through anymore?
[quote]
Also my form is “decent” by the way no leg flailing. I was lucky enough to have the Dave Tate instructional video come out just weeks after i started lifting.[/quote]
If your legs are flailing at all you need to get off the machine or bench before you hurt yourself.[/quote]
I don’t plan to exclude the regular bench from here on out just maybe switch it for the smith for a few months and see if i notice my chest getting bigger. Aside from a few key exercises i have switched most of what i do ever 3-4 months or when i start to stall for several weeks.
Also i wasn’t trying to imply you could immediately go as heavy as possible after several years of not benching sorry if it came off that way. I was just curious if you felt you got decent carry over from machine benching to regular benching if you decided to switch back. Judging by your response i would say you got a lot of carry over.
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
Judging by your response i would say you got a lot of carry over.[/quote]
NO, my response should have let you know I don’t CARE about “carry over”. I couldn’t care less if I never bench press with a barbell again. Why would I? I am bigger and stronger than most people worried about a bench press so why is the exercise itself so important when other exercises seem to be providing more growth for advanced lifters?
I believe it has a place, but not so much for those who have gotten past the intermediate stage and KNOW their own bodies well enough to make that decision.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]w00tage wrote:
I’m on the fence. I tend to notice I get shoulder and/or elbow irritation when using the smith for pressing movements, however if I get my hands in the right position this isn’t so bad except for the last rep or two of a set to failure. I noticed today it happens particularly if I flare the elbows out, so I kept them closer today which seemed to help.
The problem doesn’t seem to persist other than to irritate me throughout that exercise, so I think I’m ok and I’m going to keep using incline smith for the next month or so to see what happens.[/quote]
adjust your setup and technique
what kind of smith is it?[/quote]
I’ve tried different setups and techniques and can’t seem to get it right. Either it’s such that I don’t feel it in the muscle, and in a different one (i.e. triceps), or I feel it best and am strongest in a certain position but it gives those shoulder/elbow problems, lol. I’ll spend some time reading up on setup and technique again.
vertical?
I’m guessing you mean angled or vertical (didn’t even know angled existed until someone mentioned earlier in the thread). The ones I’ve always used are vertical. This shoulder/elbow stuff happens with overhead pressing too - can’t see any way of doing OH pressing with an angled. o.O
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
Judging by your response i would say you got a lot of carry over.[/quote]
NO, my response should have let you know I don’t CARE about “carry over”. I couldn’t care less if I never bench press with a barbell again. Why would I? I am bigger and stronger than most people worried about a bench press so why is the exercise itself so important when other exercises seem to be providing more growth for advanced lifters?
I believe it has a place, but not so much for those who have gotten past the intermediate stage and KNOW their own bodies well enough to make that decision.[/quote]
I suspected as much, but whether or not you care about your carry over isn’t whats relevant to me at this time. The important thing for me at this stage is that it’s there, so in 6 months or so when i switch back to regular bench i won’t still be at 260 lbs once my body gets back into the rhythm of benching regular again. I doubt i would care about carry over at your level of development either since 99% of people won’t ever reach that level anyway. Thanks for answering all my questions though i appreciate it.
OP, have you ever known anyone with a 260 pound max on bench press with a big chest? No. I believe you need to get that lift up to some respectable poundages (at least repping 315 for a few) before you can make that call. I didn’t even switch from barbell bench until I was doing reps with 430. I felt if I hadn’t been getting good chest development by being able to use that weight, then I never would. That’s when I made changes.
It’s fine to experiment, but without building sufficient strength and the resulting mass by using a certain exercise, it’s hard to decide exactly how well it works for you.
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
Judging by your response i would say you got a lot of carry over.[/quote]
NO, my response should have let you know I don’t CARE about “carry over”. I couldn’t care less if I never bench press with a barbell again. Why would I? I am bigger and stronger than most people worried about a bench press so why is the exercise itself so important when other exercises seem to be providing more growth for advanced lifters?
I believe it has a place, but not so much for those who have gotten past the intermediate stage and KNOW their own bodies well enough to make that decision.[/quote]
I suspected as much, but whether or not you care about your carry over isn’t whats relevant to me at this time. The important thing for me at this stage is that it’s there, so in 6 months or so when i switch back to regular bench i won’t still be at 260 lbs once my body gets back into the rhythm of benching regular again. I doubt i would care about carry over at your level of development either since 99% of people won’t ever reach that level anyway. Thanks for answering all my questions though i appreciate it.[/quote]
You aren’t listening. You may very well still be at 260lbs when you return to bench pressing. In fact, if you stay away long enough, you may even be weaker on that one movement. That doesn’t mean you got weaker in your muscles. It means you will have to relearn the movement.
For example, dumbbells do not correlate directly with the strength seen with a bench press using a bar. You may very well be able to do 405lbs on a bench press. That doesn’t mean you can bench two 200lbs dumbbells.
These are DIFFERENT MOVEMENTS…and as much as you THINK you understood before, it is pretty clear you don’t.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
Judging by your response i would say you got a lot of carry over.[/quote]
NO, my response should have let you know I don’t CARE about “carry over”. I couldn’t care less if I never bench press with a barbell again. Why would I? I am bigger and stronger than most people worried about a bench press so why is the exercise itself so important when other exercises seem to be providing more growth for advanced lifters?
I believe it has a place, but not so much for those who have gotten past the intermediate stage and KNOW their own bodies well enough to make that decision.[/quote]
I suspected as much, but whether or not you care about your carry over isn’t whats relevant to me at this time. The important thing for me at this stage is that it’s there, so in 6 months or so when i switch back to regular bench i won’t still be at 260 lbs once my body gets back into the rhythm of benching regular again. I doubt i would care about carry over at your level of development either since 99% of people won’t ever reach that level anyway. Thanks for answering all my questions though i appreciate it.[/quote]
You aren’t listening. You may very well still be at 260lbs when you return to bench pressing. In fact, if you stay away long enough, you may even be weaker on that one movement. That doesn’t mean you got weaker in your muscles. It means you will have to relearn the movement.
For example, dumbbells do not correlate directly with the strength seen with a bench press using a bar. You may very well be able to do 405lbs on a bench press. That doesn’t mean you can bench two 200lbs dumbbells.
These are DIFFERENT MOVEMENTS…and as much as you THINK you understood before, it is pretty clear you don’t.
[/quote]
Ya i thought i was clear when i said i understand if i stop doing a movement it would take time to relearn it again and get back into the rhythm. Also I’m aware that dumbbells do not correlate directly with the strength seen with a bench press, especially seeing as how i suck as dumbbell pressing in comparison. I just wanted to make sure once i relearned the movement that i would be able to lift more because my muscles were stronger.
You know what i think i actually may not understand. Are you saying because a smith bench and a regular bench are two different movements that if i got stronger on my smith then decided to move back to regular that even AFTER i relearned the movement i wouldn’t see any carryover from getting a stronger chest in general from using the smith?
Either way it seems to me that i need to spend more time getting stronger on the regular before i can make the decision to switch over. I guess once I’m benching heavier weight and my chest development doesn’t warrant the amount of weight I’m lifting then I’ll know for sure.
Smith machine= Garbage This will take your strength and flush it straight down the toilet. This is only my opinion.
[quote]GorillaBiscuits wrote:
Smith machine= Garbage This will take your strength and flush it straight down the toilet. This is only my opinion.[/quote]
What is this opinion based on?
Personal experience, anytime you take stabilizer muscles out of a movement your strength will always hit the crapper.
[quote]GorillaBiscuits wrote:
Personal experience, anytime you take stabilizer muscles out of a movement your strength will always hit the crapper. [/quote]
So what is your strength like…
[quote]GorillaBiscuits wrote:
Personal experience, anytime you take stabilizer muscles out of a movement your strength will always hit the crapper. [/quote]
Oh right, the stabilizers. It’s interesting your personal experience sounds like a generic statement used over and over about the Smith.
What free-weight exercise did you replace with the Smith? How much “strength” did you actually lose in terms of poundages used once you switched back to the free-weights?
I ask this because unless you replaced the SAME movement, I don’t see how you could determine loss of strength.
Also, the fact that many are talking about chest DEVELOPMENT, not neccessarily how much weight you can move, kinda nullifies your statement.
One other thing. Once I started using the Smith for High Incline Presses, ALL my other free-weight OHP’s went up. Interesting I had the opposite personal experience than you with the Smith.
Well before I got sick for the better part of a month, I was pushing incline 315 for reps, flat is 350 reps of 6-8. I was weighing 195lbs at 5’9. imo for overall chest development use only free weights, and cables. Anytime I incorperated any type of machine including the smith, my overall strength died slowly. Also you might wanna strengthen your triceps…again this is just my opinion…
Generic statement or fact? that you had a great experience with the smith is wonderful, and I thank you for that extra special glimpse into your life. Point being is freeweights>smith for overall chest development. And there is no way in hell you got stronger by switching from free weights to smith. What did your workouts consist of? What were the poundages? What were you wearing? Was it sexy? What day of the week was it? Was your shoes on the right feet? Please elaborate…
[quote]GorillaBiscuits wrote:
Generic statement or fact? that you had a great experience with the smith is wonderful, and I thank you for that extra special glimpse into your life. Point being is freeweights>smith for overall chest development. [/quote]
I kinda figured this is where this was going. Your last two posts confirmed it for me. Since you are just another dick with no real input for this thread, I’ll just leave it alone.
[quote]GorillaBiscuits wrote:
Generic statement or fact? Point being is freeweights>smith[/quote]
Glad free weights work well for you. They work well for me too. But don’t assume free weights are the the only thing that you need. Your opinion is clearly coming from your one track mind. At this point in time I prefer free weights, but I also know that they are not suited for everyone, and in time I may respond better to machines.
You can’t dismiss what the big guys have done. If they’re big (which is what they want to accomplish) and people are always asking them to move heavy things, then apparently they’re doing something right. But oh no, since they don’t use free weights, they must be weak as little fairies and are using their fairy powers to move heavy objects.
Dunce.