Bench/Squat Twice a Week on 531

Sorry for posting a new thread, but the massive Wendlers thread is locked, and couldn’t find an appropriate thread in the last few pages.

Just coming to the end of my sheiko cycle, around 2-3 weeks left. I am going to give Wendler’s a shot after reading the ebooks and seeing the positive results.

I am going to do the “big but boring” template, however, the last year or so I have been used to squatting / benching at least twice a week, and want to continue doing so.

Would it be ok to set the program out like this (just a quick example, not set in stone):

Bench 5/3/1 (big but boring squats)
Military Press 5/3/1 and big but boring military press
Deadlift 5/3/1 and big but boring deadlift
Squat 5/3/1 (big but boring bench)

That way, ill be hitting both bench and squat twice a week.

Would this be ok?

Cheers

I think setting up this way would be better:

Squat 5/3/1 - BBB Deadlift

Mil Press 5/3/1 - BBB Bench

Deadlift 5/3/1 - BBB Squat

Bench 5/3/1 - BBB Mil Press

A few people on other threads have mentioned they are doing it this way, at least on Squats and Deads anyway.

A couple things you should ask yourself:

Have you gotten results from the Sheiko plan? If you have gotten good results, and are continuing to progress without injury why would you change now? Change just for the sake of change is not always good.

If you have not gotten results, why would you want to keep any part of your former program? Why change a program that produces positive results when done in the prescribed manner?

Doug makes some very valid points. I would not try to turn 5/3/1 into Sheiko. They are two VERY different methodologies.

If you’re making gains on Sheiko but want to take a break from it, I can understand. It can kind of beat you down after a while. I wasn’t a big fan of 5/3/1 when I ran it, as I tend to thrive on a higher workload. But maybe you could benefit from running it as is - just consider it a break from Sheiko’s high volume craziness.

Though I would be interested to hear how you’ve done on Sheiko up to this point.

No, dont change the program, you will not see results by doing that, your getting enough of the core lifts, if anything you will see better results because your volume isnt so high.

bcingu - I’m not trying to turn 5/3/1 into Sheiko, every program i’ve done in the past i’ve stuck to their methodologies. It’s just the fact that I’ve enjoyed, and done well, on bill starrs and smolov - which were both high volume. I guess I’m kind of answering my own question here, but I would like to atleast try out Wendlers, to see how I progress on that.

I am not 100% on doing Wendlers, it is going to depend on the results when I do my 1rms in a few weeks. The reason for me looking into Wendler’s was because of the fact that I did my 95% skills evaluation last week. My squat was looking good, I’ve definitely progressed on that. My bench was ok, hard to tell how much it has improved until I do the 1rm. My deadlift felt exactly the same as when I did it last, no noticeable improvement.

From this, I feel that my squat thrives on volume (smolov gained very well/starrs/sheiko) - however I believe that my bench needs more assistance work added to push past the sticking points (which Wendler’s can give), and the same in terms of the deadlift.

I’m unsure… your advice is appreciated.

If you’ve only done the skills evaluation thus far, I would definitely wait until you actually test your maxes until you decide to switch programs. Don’t forget that you’ll have had a more thorough deload when you test your maxes later on.

I’m the same as you, as far as how my lifts are affected by volume. Sheiko has done wonders for my squat. My bench also improved, but not as drastically. You should keep in mind that Sheiko templates are infinitely malleable, and that you can add or remove assistance work as you see fit. I personally have added in close-grips and more direct tricep work, and am going to see how that works out. As far as my deadlift is concerned, it doesn’t matter what kind of programming I use. My deadlift goes up as long as I’m pulling heavy and don’t injure myself. I just have to be mentally prepared more than anything else.

It sounds like you’re just kind of bored with Sheiko. While it’s not the best reason to stop doing something that works, it’s totally understandable. Training should be fun. Maybe run 5/3/1 for a short while and just think of it as a bit of a volume deload? I’ve been considering replacing my usual deadlift work with a 5/3/1-esque max rep set, because high volume pulling is really hard for me to recover from, whether it’s conventional or sumo. Just another example of how flexible Sheiko is.

I agree with the others that if something is working and you’re enjoying it, then stick to it. However, if you just want a change (we all want that sometimes) then the 5/3/1 option could work.

I do a 2-board close grip on the Military press day as my 1st assistance movement and I’ll commonly use a RDL or SLDL as a second assistance movement on squat day. On deadlift day, I’ll usually use a front squat as either a warm-up (if I’m tight) or 1st assistance movement.

[quote]bcingu wrote:
If you’ve only done the skills evaluation thus far, I would definitely wait until you actually test your maxes until you decide to switch programs. Don’t forget that you’ll have had a more thorough deload when you test your maxes later on.

I’m the same as you, as far as how my lifts are affected by volume. Sheiko has done wonders for my squat. My bench also improved, but not as drastically. You should keep in mind that Sheiko templates are infinitely malleable, and that you can add or remove assistance work as you see fit. I personally have added in close-grips and more direct tricep work, and am going to see how that works out. As far as my deadlift is concerned, it doesn’t matter what kind of programming I use. My deadlift goes up as long as I’m pulling heavy and don’t injure myself. I just have to be mentally prepared more than anything else.

It sounds like you’re just kind of bored with Sheiko. While it’s not the best reason to stop doing something that works, it’s totally understandable. Training should be fun. Maybe run 5/3/1 for a short while and just think of it as a bit of a volume deload? I’ve been considering replacing my usual deadlift work with a 5/3/1-esque max rep set, because high volume pulling is really hard for me to recover from, whether it’s conventional or sumo. Just another example of how flexible Sheiko is.[/quote]

Thanks for the advice

Yeh I think i’ll wait and see the results first. I’m not bored of sheiko, as I said I enjoy that style of training. But I also enjoy trying out new things and seeing how they work for me, and after reading the Wendlers book, I agree with his logic.

Out of curiosity, what sheiko are you using at the moment? I have been doing the 13 week beginner cycle from the bmf sports forum, though if I stick with sheiko, 29 will probably be my next move.

When you say replace the deadlift with 5/3/1, would that be ok to do? I suppose it would be pretty easy to factor in, I mean deadlift is once a week, and instead of doing the high volume sheiko deadlifts, use the 5/3/1 and assistance. I actually like the sound of that.

Recently, I’ve been running #37 repeatedly, upping the maxes each cycle. This, according to the guys at BMF is the WRONG thing to do. The ‘right’ way to go about it is to repeat cycles with the same maxes, but that seems crazy to me. I think I would lose my mind from the boredom. Anyway, I have three more weeks of #37, then I’ll be running #32 to peak for a meet. I’ll be testing my maxes in the first week, as opposed to the skills evaluation that Dave Bates recommends, because I’d feel much more comfortable knowing where my strength is at going into the meet.

I should point out that I’m not any kind of Sheiko expert. I can’t say for certain that what I’m doing is the best way to go about it. All I know is that so far I’ve made great progress doing what I’m doing.

As for the deadlift, see above. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that i’s ‘OK’ for anyone else to do. It seems to completely go against the high-volume principles that Sheiko is based upon. For me, I think it would work. I would still probably wait until I’ve run a few more cycles to make a change that drastic, though.

Also keep in mind that if you’re the kind of person that benefits from high(ish) volume, well…I seem to recall someone on here describing 5/3/1’s volume as ‘geriatric.’ I’d say that’s pretty accurate.

[quote]Dan E wrote:
I think setting up this way would be better:

Squat 5/3/1 - BBB Deadlift

Mil Press 5/3/1 - BBB Bench

Deadlift 5/3/1 - BBB Squat

Bench 5/3/1 - BBB Mil Press

A few people on other threads have mentioned they are doing it this way, at least on Squats and Deads anyway.

[/quote]

For the op:
Many peoples in all the Wendler thread have reported success using it this way.
Also in the book, the periodization bible template when you look at it is build this way.
You can bench and select a shoulder movement for accessory, then back and triceps.