T Nation

Bench Shirts Make You Weak as a Little Girl


#1

Ok, sorry for the title but I need someone to actually read this thread. Really just posting here because I'd like some advice on my programme. Been a member here since 08, and been training since the age off 15, 6 years ago.

Just for a bit off background knowledge;

My stats in kilos are a 142.5 bench, 220 squat, and 210 deadlift... All raw lifts at a bodyweight of 91kgs.

Started off with training for rugby, messed about with bodybuilding for a while, then discovered a love for squatting.. Put two disks out in my back 2 years ago, this is why I have a shit deadlift, squatting dosent affect my back, deadlifting does, so I try to keep it to a minimum.

So, basically I have tried everything, high freguency, low frequency, high reps low reps and have finally settled on 5 3 1, mainly because its simple and I love the balls out set at the end off each workout.

So basically I have made this programme, using alot of material from this site, and some off my own ideas. I think it could be great. But I'd love to get a second opinion.

So here we go.

Day one - Monday
5 mins cardio

2 x 8 complex to warmup
Row
Clean
Front squat
Military press
Back squat
Good morning

5/3/1 Squat
4 sets Dumbell shoulder press
Front squat 3 sets
2 sets GHRs
2 sets rear delt raises

Day two - Wednesday
5 mins cardio

2 x 15 complex to warmup
Row
Clean
Front squat
Military press
Back squat
Good morning

5/3/1 Benchpress

3/4 sets - Bent Over row
3/4 sets - Dumbell press
3 sets pull-ups
2 sets chest flyes to stretch

Day 3 - Friday / Saturday

5/3/1 - Deadlift
Do whatever you want to do.
Side delts, traps, abs, calves, high reps etc.

Let me know what you think please!!!


#2

By the way, sorry about the stupid “a??” things, just ignore them I dont know why they are there


#3

You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set.


#4

Why no overhead press day?


#5

Using a trap bar or sumo deads may make deadlifting easier on your back.


#6

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

Not to be a dick or anything but, this is terrible advice. Doesn’t Wendler advocate a very indepth warm-up? I don’t follow 5/3/1 but I have read the book and off the top of my head I can remember several different warm-up complexes, a couple different static stretches, light cardio, and about 450-500 rope jumps before every workout. Especially with his disc problems, cutting out that warm-up would not be very smart.


#7

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

Not to be a dick or anything but, this is terrible advice. Doesn’t Wendler advocate a very indepth warm-up? I don’t follow 5/3/1 but I have read the book and off the top of my head I can remember several different warm-up complexes, a couple different static stretches, light cardio, and about 450-500 rope jumps before every workout. Especially with his disc problems, cutting out that warm-up would not be very smart.[/quote]

No problem, I didn’t really read about his problems, just looked at that warm up and commented. And you can do whatever you like, but I’m not going to follow to any degree what you mentioned. No, I have not read his book either, nor do I care much to. But what you listed, does not sound like a warm up to me and would never recommend anyone do that much work. Sounds like pre-workout cardio at the very least, if not a full routine.

For me, big warm ups don’t help at all. In fact, they significantly hinder my performance when approaching the core lifts I’m attempting to better. Yes, I do a gentle warm up to get blood moving, and to get the bar motion down for the lift I approach, but I anything more than that and I feel a significant decrease in strength. But then again, that’s what works for me, so I’ll leave the advice giving to you.


#8

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

Not to be a dick or anything but, this is terrible advice. Doesn’t Wendler advocate a very indepth warm-up? I don’t follow 5/3/1 but I have read the book and off the top of my head I can remember several different warm-up complexes, a couple different static stretches, light cardio, and about 450-500 rope jumps before every workout. Especially with his disc problems, cutting out that warm-up would not be very smart.[/quote]

No problem, I didn’t really read about his problems, just looked at that warm up and commented. And you can do whatever you like, but I’m not going to follow to any degree what you mentioned. No, I have not read his book either, nor do I care much to. But what you listed, does not sound like a warm up to me and would never recommend anyone do that much work. Sounds like pre-workout cardio at the very least, if not a full routine.

For me, big warm ups don’t help at all. In fact, they significantly hinder my performance when approaching the core lifts I’m attempting to better. Yes, I do a gentle warm up to get blood moving, and to get the bar motion down for the lift I approach, but I anything more than that and I feel a significant decrease in strength. But then again, that’s what works for me, so I’ll leave the advice giving to you. [/quote]

I was kind of like that until I improved my conditioning and cardio. Now I get hurt less and recover faster because of the improved conditioning and more extensive warmup.


#9

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

Not to be a dick or anything but, this is terrible advice. Doesn’t Wendler advocate a very indepth warm-up? I don’t follow 5/3/1 but I have read the book and off the top of my head I can remember several different warm-up complexes, a couple different static stretches, light cardio, and about 450-500 rope jumps before every workout. Especially with his disc problems, cutting out that warm-up would not be very smart.[/quote]

No problem, I didn’t really read about his problems, just looked at that warm up and commented. And you can do whatever you like, but I’m not going to follow to any degree what you mentioned. No, I have not read his book either, nor do I care much to. But what you listed, does not sound like a warm up to me and would never recommend anyone do that much work. Sounds like pre-workout cardio at the very least, if not a full routine.

For me, big warm ups don’t help at all. In fact, they significantly hinder my performance when approaching the core lifts I’m attempting to better. Yes, I do a gentle warm up to get blood moving, and to get the bar motion down for the lift I approach, but I anything more than that and I feel a significant decrease in strength. But then again, that’s what works for me, so I’ll leave the advice giving to you. [/quote]

I was kind of like that until I improved my conditioning and cardio. Now I get hurt less and recover faster because of the improved conditioning and more extensive warmup.[/quote]

Yea I see where both off you guys are coming from,

;TRTBlast - this is a very light warmup for me, I use only about 40 kilos at most for two sets, and do between 6 - 8 reps on each exercise, this takes at most 5 minutes. It is extremely good for conditioning, and if you add it to your workout, you may feel tired the first time.
It is known as a “complex”, I would tell you to look it up on the article database here, but then again, you seem to know better than us, and Jim Wendler about what works.
Thanks for letting me know what dosent work for you though.

Sufiandy - there is no overhead press day because the overhead press can agrivate my back at times, so I use a seated dumbell press on my squat day.

Stormthebeach/fletch - Yea, it was terrible advice, the hill sprints, jumpropes and other conditioning in wendlers programme are a real breath off fresh air for me.


#10

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

If a general full body warm up would result in you “being done after that” you should seriously consider working on your conditioning.

Also, the general outline of the program seems fine too me.


#11

[quote]flashgordon wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

Not to be a dick or anything but, this is terrible advice. Doesn’t Wendler advocate a very indepth warm-up? I don’t follow 5/3/1 but I have read the book and off the top of my head I can remember several different warm-up complexes, a couple different static stretches, light cardio, and about 450-500 rope jumps before every workout. Especially with his disc problems, cutting out that warm-up would not be very smart.[/quote]

No problem, I didn’t really read about his problems, just looked at that warm up and commented. And you can do whatever you like, but I’m not going to follow to any degree what you mentioned. No, I have not read his book either, nor do I care much to. But what you listed, does not sound like a warm up to me and would never recommend anyone do that much work. Sounds like pre-workout cardio at the very least, if not a full routine.

For me, big warm ups don’t help at all. In fact, they significantly hinder my performance when approaching the core lifts I’m attempting to better. Yes, I do a gentle warm up to get blood moving, and to get the bar motion down for the lift I approach, but I anything more than that and I feel a significant decrease in strength. But then again, that’s what works for me, so I’ll leave the advice giving to you. [/quote]

I was kind of like that until I improved my conditioning and cardio. Now I get hurt less and recover faster because of the improved conditioning and more extensive warmup.[/quote]

Yea I see where both off you guys are coming from,

;TRTBlast - this is a very light warmup for me, I use only about 40 kilos at most for two sets, and do between 6 - 8 reps on each exercise, this takes at most 5 minutes. It is extremely good for conditioning, and if you add it to your workout, you may feel tired the first time.
It is known as a “complex”, I would tell you to look it up on the article database here, but then again, you seem to know better than us, and Jim Wendler about what works.
Thanks for letting me know what dosent work for you though.

Sufiandy - there is no overhead press day because the overhead press can agrivate my back at times, so I use a seated dumbell press on my squat day.

Stormthebeach/fletch - Yea, it was terrible advice, the hill sprints, jumpropes and other conditioning in wendlers programme are a real breath off fresh air for me.
[/quote]

Just a couple thoughts and suggestions in case you haven’t tried it already for the standing press.

Are you bracing hard with your abdominals to avoid hyperextension? A belt may help with this.

As soon as the BB clears your head, are you popping your head and body underneath the bar? If I don’t do this very well, my back will feel a tad niggly the next day so I’ll shut a set down if I can’t do this even if I can press it all the way up b/c it’s not safe and proper form for me. Basically, don’t turn this into a standing incline press. If this can’t be done, you might have some issues with your shoulder girdle somewhere and you’re back is compensating for it. If so, I strongly advise you to correct those issues before they become worse. But give the new MP form a chance before you assume that.

Maybe go conservative in the training max for the press and don’t go balls to wall with your last set until you feel uber comfortable with your form.

I hope that helps.


#12

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]flashgordon wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

Not to be a dick or anything but, this is terrible advice. Doesn’t Wendler advocate a very indepth warm-up? I don’t follow 5/3/1 but I have read the book and off the top of my head I can remember several different warm-up complexes, a couple different static stretches, light cardio, and about 450-500 rope jumps before every workout. Especially with his disc problems, cutting out that warm-up would not be very smart.[/quote]

No problem, I didn’t really read about his problems, just looked at that warm up and commented. And you can do whatever you like, but I’m not going to follow to any degree what you mentioned. No, I have not read his book either, nor do I care much to. But what you listed, does not sound like a warm up to me and would never recommend anyone do that much work. Sounds like pre-workout cardio at the very least, if not a full routine.

For me, big warm ups don’t help at all. In fact, they significantly hinder my performance when approaching the core lifts I’m attempting to better. Yes, I do a gentle warm up to get blood moving, and to get the bar motion down for the lift I approach, but I anything more than that and I feel a significant decrease in strength. But then again, that’s what works for me, so I’ll leave the advice giving to you. [/quote]

I was kind of like that until I improved my conditioning and cardio. Now I get hurt less and recover faster because of the improved conditioning and more extensive warmup.[/quote]

Yea I see where both off you guys are coming from,

;TRTBlast - this is a very light warmup for me, I use only about 40 kilos at most for two sets, and do between 6 - 8 reps on each exercise, this takes at most 5 minutes. It is extremely good for conditioning, and if you add it to your workout, you may feel tired the first time.
It is known as a “complex”, I would tell you to look it up on the article database here, but then again, you seem to know better than us, and Jim Wendler about what works.
Thanks for letting me know what dosent work for you though.

Sufiandy - there is no overhead press day because the overhead press can agrivate my back at times, so I use a seated dumbell press on my squat day.

Stormthebeach/fletch - Yea, it was terrible advice, the hill sprints, jumpropes and other conditioning in wendlers programme are a real breath off fresh air for me.
[/quote]

Just a couple thoughts and suggestions in case you haven’t tried it already for the standing press.

Are you bracing hard with your abdominals to avoid hyperextension? A belt may help with this.

As soon as the BB clears your head, are you popping your head and body underneath the bar? If I don’t do this very well, my back will feel a tad niggly the next day so I’ll shut a set down if I can’t do this even if I can press it all the way up b/c it’s not safe and proper form for me. Basically, don’t turn this into a standing incline press. If this can’t be done, you might have some issues with your shoulder girdle somewhere and you’re back is compensating for it. If so, I strongly advise you to correct those issues before they become worse. But give the new MP form a chance before you assume that.

Maybe go conservative in the training max for the press and don’t go balls to wall with your last set until you feel uber comfortable with your form.

I hope that helps.[/quote]

Ok i guess I havent been really conciously jerking under the bar when I military press. I’ll try it next time I train military press. Do you think it will add much to the 5 3 1 programme?? I find I can press more with dumbells seated than I can with the bar standing.

Also, you are completely right, my shoulders have quite alot off scar tissue that has built up over the years, and ire pretty tight. Although I have started to see a physio weekly to try and remedy this. I think my pec minor is really tighht or something as my shoulders are kind off pulled forward a and down a bit.


#13

[quote]flashgordon wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]flashgordon wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]TRTblastcruise wrote:
You do a 6 exercise giant set to warm up, for two sets after already having done 5 mins of cardio as well??? Honestly I’d be done after that.

I say if you’re trying to get stronger at your core lifts, then do the core lifts first while you’re fresh. I do one lighter warm up set, but honestly, after that I dive right into the lift of the day. The first two sets of any week in the 5/3/1 program are really warm up sets for the third rep+ set. [/quote]

Not to be a dick or anything but, this is terrible advice. Doesn’t Wendler advocate a very indepth warm-up? I don’t follow 5/3/1 but I have read the book and off the top of my head I can remember several different warm-up complexes, a couple different static stretches, light cardio, and about 450-500 rope jumps before every workout. Especially with his disc problems, cutting out that warm-up would not be very smart.[/quote]

No problem, I didn’t really read about his problems, just looked at that warm up and commented. And you can do whatever you like, but I’m not going to follow to any degree what you mentioned. No, I have not read his book either, nor do I care much to. But what you listed, does not sound like a warm up to me and would never recommend anyone do that much work. Sounds like pre-workout cardio at the very least, if not a full routine.

For me, big warm ups don’t help at all. In fact, they significantly hinder my performance when approaching the core lifts I’m attempting to better. Yes, I do a gentle warm up to get blood moving, and to get the bar motion down for the lift I approach, but I anything more than that and I feel a significant decrease in strength. But then again, that’s what works for me, so I’ll leave the advice giving to you. [/quote]

I was kind of like that until I improved my conditioning and cardio. Now I get hurt less and recover faster because of the improved conditioning and more extensive warmup.[/quote]

Yea I see where both off you guys are coming from,

;TRTBlast - this is a very light warmup for me, I use only about 40 kilos at most for two sets, and do between 6 - 8 reps on each exercise, this takes at most 5 minutes. It is extremely good for conditioning, and if you add it to your workout, you may feel tired the first time.
It is known as a “complex”, I would tell you to look it up on the article database here, but then again, you seem to know better than us, and Jim Wendler about what works.
Thanks for letting me know what dosent work for you though.

Sufiandy - there is no overhead press day because the overhead press can agrivate my back at times, so I use a seated dumbell press on my squat day.

Stormthebeach/fletch - Yea, it was terrible advice, the hill sprints, jumpropes and other conditioning in wendlers programme are a real breath off fresh air for me.
[/quote]

Just a couple thoughts and suggestions in case you haven’t tried it already for the standing press.

Are you bracing hard with your abdominals to avoid hyperextension? A belt may help with this.

As soon as the BB clears your head, are you popping your head and body underneath the bar? If I don’t do this very well, my back will feel a tad niggly the next day so I’ll shut a set down if I can’t do this even if I can press it all the way up b/c it’s not safe and proper form for me. Basically, don’t turn this into a standing incline press. If this can’t be done, you might have some issues with your shoulder girdle somewhere and you’re back is compensating for it. If so, I strongly advise you to correct those issues before they become worse. But give the new MP form a chance before you assume that.

Maybe go conservative in the training max for the press and don’t go balls to wall with your last set until you feel uber comfortable with your form.

I hope that helps.[/quote]

Ok i guess I havent been really conciously jerking under the bar when I military press. I’ll try it next time I train military press. Do you think it will add much to the 5 3 1 programme?? I find I can press more with dumbells seated than I can with the bar standing.

Also, you are completely right, my shoulders have quite alot off scar tissue that has built up over the years, and ire pretty tight. Although I have started to see a physio weekly to try and remedy this. I think my pec minor is really tighht or something as my shoulders are kind off pulled forward a and down a bit.[/quote]

More easing than jerking.


#14

ok yea I guess jerking is always bad with any sort off weight over head!


#15

Did I say I knew better than anyone else? Nope. But on the same token, does Jim Wendler know what everyone should do to get strong? Nope. He just made a plan that works for him and some people that try it, and everyone on this site seems to jack off while reading his books and studying his lifting routine because they love it so much. However, it is not the only program that exists. And even Jim says put your complexes after your workout (http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=123083&tid= number 15).