i heard that doing a barbell bench press on a flat ground can be more affective than a bench press. It is definitely harder, but is that true?
Why would it be more effective? Not a flame, just a critical thinking question... Really, are any of the parameters changed all that much that would make either of them that much different?
Main difference is the ROM of the exercise.
I believe you're thinking of floor press. It's a great triceps or bench lockout exercise. It won't do anything for your chest, but definitly is a worthwhile exercise.
I wouldn't say it's "better" than regular bench though.
Possibly, when on the ground, you can't use the rest of your body in any way, and maybe it locks in your shoulder blades or something. Or maybe the pecs get a bit of a rest using a bench, at the bottom of the movement. It could possibly me more (or less) effective, I don't like the idea of doing benches on the floor though, haven't done that since I was a kid with no bench.
There is no way your pecs are at rest at the bottom of the movement for a barbell bench press.
It's kind of why I've tired of posting as much. Without even the base of knowlege as to how andwhen and why the muscles work, people post their 'advice'
I realize this is a beginners section, but the advice should only be given when you 'know.' That still doesn't mean it's right for everyone, but if it works for you feel free to hand it out.
But to answer a question about an exercise without knowing the working musculature--what the heck are we doing here?
Too many newbies who haven't even trained a year giving "advice".
Maybe he means when he's screaming for help because he cant get the bar off his chest?
And then challenging you
Floor press is used by powerlifters for a bench press supplement, or ME movement. Meaning it helps increase their bench press, and is normally done after a ME pushing movement, or used as an ME pushing movenet.
Have you ever floor pressed?
I ask this because it is a mid range movement, not really a lockout exercise, per se. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but there are some people (like me) who have the bar come 2 inches from their chest when floor pressing. So this is much different from lockout exercises such as rack lockouts or 4 and 5 boards.
Also, the chest will most definitely be worked during a floor press. I've seen Ronnie Coleman and many other bodybuilders do half reps when benching to keep constant strain on their pecs. And although the floor press is slightly different because of the breaking of the eccentric/concenctric chain, your chest is definitely involved.
(Johnnie Jackson claims to often do floor press instead of inclines because he feels they work his upper chest better.)
If you do or have floor pressed, that's fine, I'm not trying to dog you or anything; just wanted to correct/clarify.
A floor press removes leg drive, back arching (an arched back will reduce the range of motion) and bouncing/momentum out of the bench press. And, as correctly pointed out, depending on your grip, a floor press can bring the bar damn near to your chest. Even when I floor press with a close grip, the bar is only an inch or two from my chest.
A floor press can be used as Max effort excercise or as a supplementary exercise for higher reps and can be peformed with various grips.
At any rate, it still works all the regular bench pressing musculature - except you cannot use leg drive, you could arch but not as effectively as on the bench and you definitely cannot use momentum unless you want to trash your elbows on the floor.
Bottom line: Floor press is a great TRICEP exersise. I prefer to do mine with a 14" grip with elbows in tight. There can be some chest involvement, but not enough to call this a chest movement.
Hmm... that kind of worries me and makes me think I might be doing the exercise wrong. I have never floor pressed with a barbell, always with dumbells. I have typically done it two ways, either with for 3-4 sets of 6-8 as heavier stimulus after RE bodyweight dips or light bench press or for 2-3 sets of 12-15 as a third exercise on an ME day. When I do heavier reps, I usually pause for 2 seconds with my elbows touching the floor but when I do higher reps I kind of just do touch and go.
I may be using "lockout" improperly. I tend to think of bench in two stages: getting it "off the chest" and "locking it out" once the bar starts to slow down. I know I am over-simplifying things a lot there, but I am definitly not advanced in the bench press at all so I know my understand of the technicalities of the lift are not great.
I will also say that I have a terrible arch (I know floor press takes a lot out of it, but you can still see a lot of guys have a decent arch when they floor press). Add the fact that I am skinny as shit and have no appreciable chest/stomach mass. I also have very long arms, even for a 6'4" guy, so suffice to say that my triceps take a beating no matter what form of pressing movement I do.
So I think the fact that I consider it a tricep/lockout exercise has to do with the combination of my inexperience with the nuances of the bench, my body type and the fact that I always was under the impression that it was for the triceps, so I probably focused more on getting them involved while doing it. I feel like I am performing the exercise properly, but next time I do it, I'll have somebody check out my form to see how it looks.
I definitly appreciate the criticism because it really made me think about what I was doing. If you have anything to add, please be more than welcome to do so.
Well, if you are doing it with dumbbells, I imagine you are using a "palms-in" grip, which I know I feel more in my lats and tris than I do with a palms forward grip.
And I definitely understand, given your body type, that your triceps are probably very heavily taxed when doing floor presses. My roommate, who trains with me, is built very similarly, and he doesn't come nearly as close to his chest as I do with this exercise (I'm 5'8", 220).
My point about the floor press working your chest was sort of two-fold. One, since it is a mid-range exercise, your chest will be involved, 2) (this I failed to mention) if you grow accustomed to heavier loads or bring up your bench press 1RM by training with this exercise, then it will help your hypertrophy gains.
As a last point, it doesn't sound like you are doing the exercise incorrectly, but it never hurts to have other lifters watch your form and critique you. Also, I would suggest floor pressing (barbell) for your ME upper body exercise. Good luck with your training and thanks for being so receptive.
Alright, that makes sense. Next time I do it, I'll try it with a barbell to see how that feels. I usually go with paused-reps or deep dumbell benches as my main supplemental chest exercises, but having another one could only help.
Its better in the sense of tricep development. It helps your lockout as well. Depending on how you bench you can get more strength(IE a higher bench) if you use your triceps more.
Shit, just read about westside methods.