T Nation

Beltless Deficit DL Up to 425

Hey guys just a recording of my beltless deficit deadlifts up to 425.

Was feeling a bit off and hamstring/glutes/lowback were fried from squatting so I opted just to pull a single and call it quits. Pants are pulled up pretty high… so It looks like I’m started with a rounded back each time, it does round at 425 obviously.

Couldn’t really put tension on the bar the way I wanted but overall pleased.

Any critiques?

My critique is chill out with the self aggrandizing vids you post on here.

You’re again asking for a critique, then will predictably become sour when someone tries to throw you a bone.

An additional critique is that you hitched the last one.

What was the last PR attempt you missed? 425lbs regular deadlift?

Nice job man. Especially after squats and from a deficit.

Yea I missed 425 off the floor last time :/. Thx bud. Jarvan you’re such an angry little pleb. Why don’t you see a therapist.

What happened to two weeks ago when you were getting away from heavy low rep stuff and switching to higher rep work for a while?

Because you were doing that quick double dip down/mini-lift before each rep. Bad habit and a waste of energy.

I used to chase PR’s on snatch-grip deadlifts and I never got any benefit from it. I got benefit from training the lift with very strict form.

The situation with deficit deadlifts is similar. The point of the exercise is taking a competition lift and doing it with some mechanical disadvantage. It only accomplishes something if you improve a “piece” of the complex pattern in the competition lift. Deficit deadlifts are know for strengthening the pull from the floor by making the leg drive from the floor more difficult (the phase of the lift in which hip extension is producing less force and leg extension is producing more force).

So while a 425 deficit deadlift is impressive, its not necessarily going to do you as much good as training it light enough that your back stays straight because for all you know back extension is just overpowering the leg drive.

Its the same story with guys that do 600lb rack pulls from above the knee, it looks impressive but it doesn’t train the competition lift so much. Chase PRs on the competition lifts not assistance lifts, assistance is for targeting weak spots and further refining form

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
I used to chase PR’s on snatch-grip deadlifts and I never got any benefit from it. I got benefit from training the lift with very strict form.

The situation with deficit deadlifts is similar. The point of the exercise is taking a competition lift and doing it with some mechanical disadvantage. It only accomplishes something if you improve a “piece” of the complex pattern in the competition lift. Deficit deadlifts are know for strengthening the pull from the floor by making the leg drive from the floor more difficult (the phase of the lift in which hip extension is producing less force and leg extension is producing more force). So while a 425 deficit deadlift is impressive, its not necessarily going to do you as much good as training it light enough that your back stays straight because for all you know back extension is just overpowering the leg drive.

Its the same story with guys that do 600lb rack pulls from above the knee, it looks impressive but it doesn’t train the competition lift so much. Chase PRs on the competition lifts not assistance lifts, assistance is for targeting weak spots and further refining form[/quote]

I don’t mean to sound like a dick or trying to start a argument here but I 1000% disagree with this.

When I hit a PR in the Front Squat or SSB Squat I am almost always guaranteed a PR on my comp squat. So much so that 60% of my training volume is dedicated to Front Squats. When I see a Close Grip Bench Press or Dip PR It carries over greatly to my Wide Bench Comp Press. Also I have a tremendously hard time with my lockout in the dead lift and I trained absolutely nothing but Good Mornings and Above the Knee Block pull’s and went from 550 pull to 600 for a double with out Doug more than a 365 speed pull from the floor.

If your weak off the floor or what ever the hell your weakness is in what ever move. Attacking and improving that area or muscles involved in that area is a great idea. I have never agreed with the if you wanna Squat, Bench, or Deadlift more then S,B, or DL more. Sure you need to practice the main move but it is not always the best answer. There is nothing wrong with taking a more scientific approach and actually analyzing your lifts and attacking them piece by piece.

Not looking for a debate simply saying there is more than one way to fuck a sheep…or something like that.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
I used to chase PR’s on snatch-grip deadlifts and I never got any benefit from it. I got benefit from training the lift with very strict form.

The situation with deficit deadlifts is similar. The point of the exercise is taking a competition lift and doing it with some mechanical disadvantage. It only accomplishes something if you improve a “piece” of the complex pattern in the competition lift. Deficit deadlifts are know for strengthening the pull from the floor by making the leg drive from the floor more difficult (the phase of the lift in which hip extension is producing less force and leg extension is producing more force). So while a 425 deficit deadlift is impressive, its not necessarily going to do you as much good as training it light enough that your back stays straight because for all you know back extension is just overpowering the leg drive.

Its the same story with guys that do 600lb rack pulls from above the knee, it looks impressive but it doesn’t train the competition lift so much. Chase PRs on the competition lifts not assistance lifts, assistance is for targeting weak spots and further refining form[/quote]

I don’t mean to sound like a dick or trying to start a argument here but I 1000% disagree with this.

When I hit a PR in the Front Squat or SSB Squat I am almost always guaranteed a PR on my comp squat. So much so that 60% of my training volume is dedicated to Front Squats. When I see a Close Grip Bench Press or Dip PR It carries over greatly to my Wide Bench Comp Press. Also I have a tremendously hard time with my lockout in the dead lift and I trained absolutely nothing but Good Mornings and Above the Knee Block pull’s and went from 550 pull to 600 for a double with out Doug more than a 365 speed pull from the floor.

If your weak off the floor or what ever the hell your weakness is in what ever move. Attacking and improving that area or muscles involved in that area is a great idea. I have never agreed with the if you wanna Squat, Bench, or Deadlift more then S,B, or DL more. Sure you need to practice the main move but it is not always the best answer. There is nothing wrong with taking a more scientific approach and actually analyzing your lifts and attacking them piece by piece.

Not looking for a debate simply saying there is more than one way to fuck a sheep…or something like that.[/quote]

Its cool I know you sound like a dick sometimes :wink:

Don’t get me wrong I respect your experience, but what you’re recommending is too advanced for a beginner IMO. With rack pulls, you have enough of a grasp of mechanics that you can do it above the knee and still use lockout mechanics so what I was saying doesn’t apply to you. I was referring to the guys that load up bar too heavy and pretty much just hitch the bar off the pins.

I said too much and it distracted from my main point. The point is OP is not getting tight in his setup and that contributes to him being weak off the floor, so doing deficit deads without getting tight is not going to help. A beginner with bad form thats weak off the floor shouldn’t necessarily do the same thing as an advanced lifter with good form thats weak off the floor. I could be way wrong but in any case thats where I was coming from

so you’re saying that if you were a sheep, you’d fuck another sheep?

[quote]Jarvan wrote:
so you’re saying that if you were a sheep, you’d fuck another sheep?[/quote]
well…
isn’t a sheep that fucks people just as weird as a person that fucks sheep?

Why are people fucking sheep on my post.

I also disagree with napalm. No debate.

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Jarvan wrote:
so you’re saying that if you were a sheep, you’d fuck another sheep?[/quote]
well…
isn’t a sheep that fucks people just as weird as a person that fucks sheep?
[/quote]

I think if you fuck a sheep and then eat the whole fucker with mint sauce in one sitting later, all your lifts will go up the following week.

[quote]Learning2Lift wrote:
Why are people fucking sheep on my post.[/quote]

Hahahaha

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Jarvan wrote:
so you’re saying that if you were a sheep, you’d fuck another sheep?[/quote]
well…
isn’t a sheep that fucks people just as weird as a person that fucks sheep?
[/quote]

you dirty sheep fucker

but with that said, I see validity on both sides.

I agree that the setup is not ‘tight’ in napalm’s words. In my mind, it’s just sloppy. He’s trying to pull an Andy Bolton with that god awful bar humping prior to his lift, but it’s just not working. So yes, perhaps a smaller weight and a smaller ego would pay dividends in the end.

But I’m gonna argue that Reed is on point too. Although I wouldn’t consider a front squat an accessory lift (my words), it definitely pronounces the anterior chain… which in the end will assist the posterior chain dominant low bar back squat.

btw, im not judging anyone for fucking a sheep. I have Colombian friends, and some of their countrymen fuck donkeys

Lol I love where this post went.

I agree to a extent FacePalm. I agree fully that if the beginner is doing what you described then yes totally a wasted movement. But if a beginner uses proper mechanics and focuses on the hips hinging rather than pushing his knees under the bar then he could def benefit from the movement. How ever 90% of the time at least in commercial gyms this is def not the case.

I pretty much consider the Front Squat a accessory move only because it is not allowed in competition and because it is well known to bring up upper back and quad weakness rather someone using the back squat to improve their front squats. I know a beginner can benefit from certain moves because I have seen it how ever I was right next to them coaching and walking them through it.

[quote]Jarvan wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Jarvan wrote:
so you’re saying that if you were a sheep, you’d fuck another sheep?[/quote]
well…
isn’t a sheep that fucks people just as weird as a person that fucks sheep?
[/quote]

you dirty sheep fucker
[/quote]

That would be one dirty fucking sheep.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Jarvan wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Jarvan wrote:
so you’re saying that if you were a sheep, you’d fuck another sheep?[/quote]
well…
isn’t a sheep that fucks people just as weird as a person that fucks sheep?
[/quote]

you dirty sheep fucker
[/quote]

That would be one dirty fucking sheep.[/quote]

It ain’t trickin if ya got it

Jarvan, your information is right up there in usefulness with the instructions on the back of pancake mix and 90 second rice instructions.

Jarvan, your information is right up there in usefulness with the instructions on the back of pancake mix and 90 second rice instructions.