Being at a Dead-End Job

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

Let me ask you, when (if ever) should I bring up the fact that I need* (not want) more money at this point? I’ve been suggested to say so by my dad, but it doesn’t seem like the right justification for doing a review.
[/quote]

The question is not whether you need* more money but rather are you worth more. By you I am saying a general you, not you personally. You should be paid fair market value irrespective of what your debts are.
[/quote]

This.

If you show up and just do your job, imo, you don’t deserve a raise and certainly not a promotion. You deserve to keep your job.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
carbiduis, have you done anything to deserve a raise?

If your employer isn’t taking care of you, assuming you are going above and beyond, then either leave or make your case man to man(or woman) in unambiguous, but tactful terms.
[/quote]

Every. Single. Day.

I don’t fuck around/ waste time
I contribute and influence things positively
I NEVER hesitate to get something done (over lunch, staying late)
I am DRIVEN to get things done
I put the customer first
I have a great CONSISTENT attitude at work and never let my emotions or ego affect what or how I do my job.

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

Let me ask you, when (if ever) should I bring up the fact that I need* (not want) more money at this point? I’ve been suggested to say so by my dad, but it doesn’t seem like the right justification for doing a review.
[/quote]

The question is not whether you need* more money but rather are you worth more. By you I am saying a general you, not you personally. You should be paid fair market value irrespective of what your debts are.
[/quote]

agreed.

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
carbiduis, have you done anything to deserve a raise?

If your employer isn’t taking care of you, assuming you are going above and beyond, then either leave or make your case man to man(or woman) in unambiguous, but tactful terms.
[/quote]

Every. Single. Day.

I don’t fuck around/ waste time
I contribute and influence things positively
I NEVER hesitate to get something done (over lunch, staying late)
I am DRIVEN to get things done
I put the customer first
I have a great CONSISTENT attitude at work and never let my emotions or ego affect what or how I do my job.[/quote]

Ultimately though, has your role expanded? How are you adding tangible value to the team?

Unfortunately the intangible traits don’t justify a raise IMO you need to show where you are saving the company money. I was in the exact same dilemma 6 months ago and what sold my boss was the fact I was taking on significantly more work. I also asked for a reasonable bump which was at about market value.

My .02 cents re: carbiduis. It depends on what the raise agreement was up front. If he was hired on based on a low-ball probationary salary with the promise of a raise if he performs up to expectations he has every right to expect his employer to live up to its end of the bargain.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
My .02 cents re: carbiduis. It depends on what the raise agreement was up front. If he was hired on based on a low-ball probationary salary with the promise of a raise if he performs up to expectations he has every right to expect his employer to live up to its end of the bargain. [/quote]

I agree and was about to write something along these lines.

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
uhhh, YEA, I do EXPECT a raise. I don’t like the entitlement mentality either, but when you know what you’re worth and you’re not getting paid for it, you begin to expect it…AAAAAAnnd plus the fact that the 2 or three times that I have asked my boss about my review he says “just remember that any pay increase will be retro active back to your start date” saying that even though he’s late with the review I won’t be missing out on my money.

If I told you what I got paid at this point you may have a chuckle to yourself.
[/quote]

If you know what you’re worth, why not go find a job that pays you what you’re worth? You get an offer at one of those places, and that’s your bargaining chip.

Why work for someplace that pays you less? Unless you’re overestimating your worth…

When I was younger, I did some process engineering work for a company that invested over $2 million in one of my ideas. Completely transformed their business. They were paying me $8.50/hr, with no expectation of any raise, ever.

I did however get some excellent references and experience which proved invaluable to bring me where I am today.

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Just be lucky that you had your annual review…

I’ve been at my company for 1 yr (labor day) and 4mo…and I still haven’t got my review (and assumed raise)!!!

I filled out my review sheet and gave it to my boss 2 weeks before labor day. he said “great we will do your review on or before your start date (sept 4th)”

bunch of fucking bullshit and nothing I can do except look for another job which I’m not sure makes a whole lot of sense since I only have about a yr of experience

My mortgage is going up, my health insurance is going up and I’m still making a rookie salary…BULLSHIT[/quote]

You mean, you expect to get a raise? Like it’s just something you deserve?

I’ll never understand that mentality.

But I would gently remind your boss about the annual review, maybe once every two weeks or even once a week. And if nothing happens in the next couple weeks, talk to someone in HR about what to do about it.[/quote]

uhhh, YEA, I do EXPECT a raise. I don’t like the entitlement mentality either, but when you know what you’re worth and you’re not getting paid for it, you begin to expect it…AAAAAAnnd plus the fact that the 2 or three times that I have asked my boss about my review he says “just remember that any pay increase will be retro active back to your start date” saying that even though he’s late with the review I won’t be missing out on my money.

If I told you what I got paid at this point you may have a chuckle to yourself.

HR? haha, we don’t have HR, theres about 150 people at my company and no one is looking over my boss, so theres that. He is a huge procrastinator, there are 2 others who are due to receive their review ahead of me, so he’s late on their review as well.

Let me ask you, when (if ever) should I bring up the fact that I need* (not want) more money at this point? I’ve been suggested to say so by my dad, but it doesn’t seem like the right justification for doing a review.
[/quote]

Let me start by saying I’ve never gotten a raise that I didn’t ask for.

Needing more is justification in part, but only part. The rest should be based on verifiable facts that you are able to list and describe what part you had in that success. It has to be the right thing for the employer to do and they need to see the reasons why it is.

I’d also bet that there is a good chance that your employer is holding out until someone walks into his office and asks directly with good specific reasons. If you don’t feel confident that you have earned it you aren’t going to do that.

(you generally, not specifically)

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
carbiduis, have you done anything to deserve a raise?

If your employer isn’t taking care of you, assuming you are going above and beyond, then either leave or make your case man to man(or woman) in unambiguous, but tactful terms.
[/quote]

Every. Single. Day.

I don’t fuck around/ waste time
I contribute and influence things positively
I NEVER hesitate to get something done (over lunch, staying late)
I am DRIVEN to get things done
I put the customer first
I have a great CONSISTENT attitude at work and never let my emotions or ego affect what or how I do my job.[/quote]

That’s all great, and I mean that sincerely. What have you done to get a raise though? Everything you just described makes you good at your job. These are things everyone should strive to do. To get a raise (assuming there aren’t guranteed raises) you have to do more than your job.

I’ll give you a personal example. Our Internal Audit department is short handed. My boss approached me and asked if I would be willing to help them out. I said yes, no problem. Now I do a project here and there for IA and have gone on business trips in support of IA. My boss recognized that I accepted duties above and beyond my job description (this is just one example) and rewarded me with a raise (promotion). I didn’t have to help, but by doing more, I earned more.

If you don’t have the opportunity, or aren’t rewarded for taking advantage of similiar opportunities than I would suggest you find a place that will reward you.

Understand that when working for someone or within a company you will always be at the mercy of your superiors for promotions. What you can do is create the right circumstances that SHOULD allow you to get a raise, e.g by being an outstanding employee. But ultimately it still comes down to a decision by someone else, which is something you can’t fully control.

If you want to be in control then work for yourself as soon as possible or at least put the pillars in place that will see you working for yourself down the road.
Another option is to change companies frequently, some may regard this as disloyal or terrible advice but that’s what i’ve always done.
I’ve never received a pay rise in my life while working for the same company but have gotten massive pay increases with each new job.

[quote]B A S T A R D wrote:
Another option is to change companies frequently, some may regard this as disloyal or terrible advice but that’s what i’ve always done.
I’ve never received a pay rise in my life while working for the same company but have gotten massive pay increases with each new job.[/quote]

Until I started working for myself, this strategy was also the only way I ever received any vacation longer than a long weekend.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]B A S T A R D wrote:
Another option is to change companies frequently, some may regard this as disloyal or terrible advice but that’s what i’ve always done.
I’ve never received a pay rise in my life while working for the same company but have gotten massive pay increases with each new job.[/quote]

Until I started working for myself, this strategy was also the only way I ever received any vacation longer than a long weekend.
[/quote]

5 years ago, I wouldn’t have an issue with the job switch every couple of years, in today’s world, I would be a bit more conservative.

Plus this kind of career path can come back to bit one in the ass around age 50 or so, when you want to settle in and finish off the last 13-17 years in one place… No one might hire you.

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I’ve been at my company for 1 yr (labor day) and 4mo…and I still haven’t got my review [/quote]

lol, dude, shit happens. I’m sure there are more pressing things in your boss’s workday than sitting down with you and wiping your ass. (I assume your workplace is like most now-a-days and massages egos during reviews. We get hammered with “constructive” criticism, but I know a lot fo places just lick your nuts for fear of lawsuits.)

The recommendation to professionally remind him ever couple of weeks is a good one. But be patient. If you squeak too much, the squeaky wheel gets replaced with a newer model.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]B A S T A R D wrote:
Another option is to change companies frequently, some may regard this as disloyal or terrible advice but that’s what i’ve always done.
I’ve never received a pay rise in my life while working for the same company but have gotten massive pay increases with each new job.[/quote]

Until I started working for myself, this strategy was also the only way I ever received any vacation longer than a long weekend.
[/quote]

5 years ago, I wouldn’t have an issue with the job switch every couple of years, in today’s world, I would be a bit more conservative.

Plus this kind of career path can come back to bit one in the ass around age 50 or so, when you want to settle in and finish off the last 13-17 years in one place… No one might hire you. [/quote]

Its a fucking jungle out there, no doubt, and hitting 50 is a real problem if you don’t have your own clients/something to take with you to a new employer that generates revenue. For the record, I wasn’t a big job switcher–I only switched once before I went out on my own–I just never had any vacation.

One of the few ways that still seems to make sense for switching jobs every few years is to get in with a large multinational (e.g., GE) that has several operations. You can switch jobs, career paths, and even industries, but still remain an employee of the same parent company. That gives you the opportunity of a decent raise with each switch while keeping your 401k, vacation, etc.

[quote]Biskui wrote:
Hello Nation,

So, I have had my annual meeting with my managers and, despite good results and a very positive appreciation, after 6 years at my job, it appears that my current responsabilities and tasks are going to be broaden (I am an engineer, working in pre-sales conception in a 700 people company), because it was a very good year.

Good news, eh ? But there is a point. I am not going to be the one doing this new job. They took someone else, friend of an other manager and working in another unit which had bad results.

The guy has less experience, less qualification and worst results than me and I seriously feel buttraped about this.

It seems every decision is done and I have not been consulted on the issue. I am very very disappointed.

Every day I wake up at 7, go to work, get back at 7PM, I get a decent wage but nothing really fancy for my qualification.

If I were alone, I would probably seek for another job, but I am quite stuck between this quite comfort zone, that is going to become an uncomfort zone, and doing something bigger, but taking risks for my couple & incoming family.

Fact is, I cannot stand my new boss. I mean I dreamt of hurting him in a very non consensual way. I know this is going to be hell. He is the kind of guys who loves to befriend bosses.

How would you react ? My feelings are so messed up right now that I have trouble staying cold-blooded. I suck at office politics…
[/quote]

Your hard work and dedication to the job has not gone unnoticed by your bosses. You’re the kind of employee that lets them get away with putting an under-qualified buddy in a managerial position without running the business into the ground. Of course they’re not going to promote you. Your responsibilities and tasks have been broadened in that you are now covering for the new boss’s failures and fuck-ups, and in return he will selflessly take all the credit for it.

You can either try to buy into the cronyism by befriending your new boss and hope that he pays it back by promoting you when he jumps to the next pay-grade (long shot as your legitimately qualified for the job), or you could get out of the mire before he inducts one of his friends into the company and promotes him over you as well…

After one night of pure insomnia, I decided to act and to have talks in 1-to-1 with the managers (current N+1 and N+2)

It has, at least, helped me to understand the situation.

To be short, there is a political war in determining the next board of directors and this reorganization is a collateral damage and I am a victim.

I now have some infos :
→ the new organization cannot work without me in the new team (some reasons make me believe that if I go away, they will be in a bad situation for several months)
→ my new position is because they feel that I don’t have the managerial skills and the next year is going be to a key in obtaining those skills
→ I have a huge talent and need to defend it stronger

I think I am in a position to ask for an important raise, which is more important to me than managing some people (in my company, there are 2 levels : the managers, and there are 0 new this year, and the rest)…

Anyway, without a managing job in this company, I cannot have it in another right now. So I think I have to work a lot at office politics next year…

Will see

This is why so many people change career or start their own business at around 40 years of ages; they’ve reached the top of their current role and don’t want to play games to get ahead. I’m not there yet but I have changed careers completely 3 times in about 12 years. While this has been quite satisfying it’s definitely a young man’s game. Additional education and starting from the bottom aren’t things you want to do anywhere near your 50’s, or even younger.

If you can’t stand office politics (like me) then you need to be in a job you enjoy to point where you’d do it for free. Even then, you will be affected by the politics, just not to the same degree. One of my bosses just had a heart attach at age 33. He’s not fat and was an avid runner. Most of his bosses are divorced alcoholics that have nothing but their jobs. I plan on having a long life with as little stress as possible. I still look forward to work, and going home to my family, which is more important to me than extra dollars at the end of the month.

Do you really want the promotion, or just the money? Either way, make sure it’s worth it.

I’m learning woooooo. Today was a long day.

[quote]Teledin wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
carbiduis, have you done anything to deserve a raise?

If your employer isn’t taking care of you, assuming you are going above and beyond, then either leave or make your case man to man(or woman) in unambiguous, but tactful terms.
[/quote]

Every. Single. Day.

I don’t fuck around/ waste time
I contribute and influence things positively
I NEVER hesitate to get something done (over lunch, staying late)
I am DRIVEN to get things done
I put the customer first
I have a great CONSISTENT attitude at work and never let my emotions or ego affect what or how I do my job.[/quote]

Ultimately though, has your role expanded? How are you adding tangible value to the team?

Unfortunately the intangible traits don’t justify a raise IMO you need to show where you are saving the company money. I was in the exact same dilemma 6 months ago and what sold my boss was the fact I was taking on significantly more work. I also asked for a reasonable bump which was at about market value.[/quote]

Absolutely, I’ve taken on extra projects while my department was down to just two of us, while there was three, and even four project managers 2 yrs ago. I had 21 projects 2mo ago. I’ve taken on bigger value projects and have become a lot more self-reliant, basically “managing” without help. Heck I throw my ideas out there and we actually used it in a project of mine. It helped the customer save space in their facility and gives us a design to use again in the future.

I know my efforts are appreciated, my boss is just being a dolt about getting my review done.