Being a Man - What Is a Man?

[quote]DaMadMonk wrote:

Tony Montana, a “Man”.
Don Corleone, a “Man”.
Micheal Corleone, a “Man”.
Tony Sorprano, a “Man”. [/quote]

Gotta step in - mobsters, real or fictional, are not ‘men’ in any sense of the word. These characters prey on the weak.

Men protect the weak.

I have become pretty tired of the glorification of the mafia.

[quote]DaMadMonk wrote:
Batman, a “Man”.
[/quote]

…and part bat.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
DaMadMonk wrote:

Tony Montana, a “Man”.
Don Corleone, a “Man”.
Micheal Corleone, a “Man”.
Tony Sorprano, a “Man”.

Gotta step in - mobsters, real or fictional, are not ‘men’ in any sense of the word. These characters prey on the weak.

Men protect the weak.

I have become pretty tired of the glorification of the mafia.
[/quote]

I know what you’re saying but they’re men never the less. Bad men but men still.

According to the women I’ve been with, I’m an 8-year-old boy in a 25-year-old’s body with a manly sex drive.

“Guys that have it together” huh? Well I guess if you think a drug dealing woman beating, cocaine sniffing, guy who gets shot in the end has it together, then by all means, more power to you.

If you think a crime fighting, dressing up in a skin tight spandex like suit, hanging out with a kid named Robin, hiding in a cave, protecting the weak but too chicken shit to do it at all times during the day, identity hiding, bat dude is a man, then by all means, more power to you. (now, all you batman fans don’t come at me, I’m just making a point).

I guess what my point is that there is really no way whatsoever to define what a man is. I think you have to go on a case by case basis. We all have opinions and so called requirements on what we think a man should be, but does that mean if a person comes up without one of those aspects, they’re not a man? Should they have two out of five? It’s just not that simple.

Pookie, awesome funny shit man. I printed that out and put it on my wall here at work.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459451

[quote]DaMadMonk wrote:
I’m 24 and thus a “Man”. But I don’t really know what a “Man” is. I’ve grown up in a body of a “Man”, but I am unsure I possess all the characteristics of one in the true sense of the word.

What do have I have to be, have, or do in order to Be a Man?[/quote]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=725328

there you go

[quote]lostinthought wrote:
come on dude…is this question for real? I guess my answer to this would be, if you have to ask, you’ll never know. [/quote]

I think this is an elitist response. “I know what a man is and you don’t and I can’t explain it to you, so you’ll never make, too bad.”

Not saying this is what you meant, but it came off to me that way. People are not just born or grow up to inherently know what a man/woman/adult is. Yes some is certainly learned through experience. But if everything we needed to know we had to learn through experience, there would be no passing down of information and everyone would have similar skill sets. But that’s obviously not true, we learn from previous generations for all kinds of knowledge (scientific, political, ethical, etc) and this allows each generation to improve without having to start at the beginning. Yes, there is certain individuality and disagreement on certain characteristics of being a man, but you can’t start with more than just “you know it when you have it”. There must be some way to grow from outside help.

Since you don’t mean “Man” in a biological sense, that must mean you mean it in the philosophical/ethical sense. Therefore I suggest reading some books on ethics/morality. The most widely historical ethical/moral code for men was that of medieval knights. Honor, duty, protect the weak, truthfulness, etc. It may be most convenient to start there.

I’m not too sure on the philosophical different between men and women, but as for adults, here’s some morals/virtues I think necessary to be considered an adult:

Productiveness - you must work - create or provide a service - to sustain/provide for yourself and others of value to you. Otherwise you would be a leech. (Just so I’m clear - stay-at-home parents are providing a service - not all productivenss requires monetary compensation in order to be considered productive)

Pride - you must value yourself and work to better yourself and things that affect you. “You must acquire the values of character that make your life worth sustaining.”

Independence - accepting the responsibility of using your own judgement and that you are the only person who decides your course of action.

Integrity - never sacrificing your convictions to the opinions or wishes of others.

Honesty - never attempting to fake reality in any manner (delude yourself or others).

Justice - never seek or grant the undearned or undeserved, in matter or spirit.

These are my opinion, but that’s what you asked for. As far as experience that make a man, there aren’t really any. Living on your own apart from current friends and family is a good trial to learn more about yourself - but it’s not necessary in order to be considered a man - nor is heavy/hard manual labor.

pookie - hilarious list!

[quote]goldin wrote:
lostinthought wrote:
Productiveness - you must work - create or provide a service - to sustain/provide for yourself and others of value to you. Otherwise you would be a leech. (Just so I’m clear - stay-at-home parents are providing a service - not all productivenss requires monetary compensation in order to be considered productive)

Pride - you must value yourself and work to better yourself and things that affect you. “You must acquire the values of character that make your life worth sustaining.”

Independence - accepting the responsibility of using your own judgement and that you are the only person who decides your course of action.

Integrity - never sacrificing your convictions to the opinions or wishes of others.

Honesty - never attempting to fake reality in any manner (delude yourself or others).

Justice - never seek or grant the undearned or undeserved, in matter or spirit.

[/quote]

So Ayn Rand was a man! I knew it.

[quote]DaMadMonk wrote:
Tony Montana, a “Man”.
Don Corleone, a “Man”.
Micheal Corleone, a “Man”.
Tony Sorprano, a “Man”.
James Bond, a “Man”.
Batman, a “Man”.
General Patton, a “Man”.
[/quote]

Let’s see:
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Correct - Only, if you can explain why, without saying “He killed a bunch of commies in the war.”

I think you need to consider some real-life role models. How about Lance Armstrong, Henry Rollins, or F’n Mohandas Ghandi.

I think the definition of a “Man” gets confused, because each individual sees things differently. This would explain why some guys out there are real dicks, and others aren’t. Everyone’s doing what they think they “should” be, from the firefighter with 3 kids, a dog, and a picket fence, to the punkass deadbeat dad who thinks he doesn’t need to pay child support because his ex-wife is dating a guy with 2 jobs.

So, I guess it comes down to determining a set of rules, and sticking to them. However, keep in mind that not everyone will agree with your rules. (That punkass deadbeat dad is as far away from a man as I can imagine. My Converse high tops are more manly than him.)

[quote]Minotaur wrote:
DaMadMonk wrote:
Tony Montana, a “Man”.
Don Corleone, a “Man”.
Micheal Corleone, a “Man”.
Tony Sorprano, a “Man”.
James Bond, a “Man”.
Batman, a “Man”.
General Patton, a “Man”.

Let’s see:
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Fictional.
Correct - Only, if you can explain why, without saying “He killed a bunch of commies in the war.”

[/quote]

Dude - Patton didn’t kill any commies - I think he killed a shit load of Nazis. But I could be wrong.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Dude - Patton didn’t kill any commies - I think he killed a shit load of Nazis. But I could be wrong.
[/quote]

My mistake, you’re correct. My point still stands though. I’m not saying he wasn’t a tough S.O.B. I’m just confused why he’s listed among a half-dozen imaginary characters.

Maybe the original poster didn’t realize that Patton was real?

[quote]vroom wrote:
Maybe the original poster didn’t realize that Patton was real?[/quote]

I gotcha. That makes sense. It was sort of a “one of these things is not like the other” moments.

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1124338073582.tank.standoff

[quote]Minotaur wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Dude - Patton didn’t kill any commies - I think he killed a shit load of Nazis. But I could be wrong.

My mistake, you’re correct. My point still stands though. I’m not saying he wasn’t a tough S.O.B. I’m just confused why he’s listed among a half-dozen imaginary characters.[/quote]

I’m completely agree with you Minotaur. I did use fictional characters (and yes I do know General Patton was real) where I should have used real ones (I agree with your list).

Who are some real men out there and why? I want to know why because one day I want to be one and the first steps for me are to know the characteristics and qualities of a “Man”.

[quote]DaMadMonk wrote:
Who are some real men out there and why? I want to know why because one day I want to be one and the first steps for me are to know the characteristics and qualities of a “Man”.[/quote]

I can appreciate that you’re looking to understand the “concept of man”, but, rather than hand you a plate of sushi, I want to teach you to fish.

Who do you think are real men, and why?