T Nation

Beginner 5/3/1 + Assistance

Hey guys,

I’ll just copy+paste some info from an earlier thread:

[quote] Kardash wrote:
I’m a newbie that made a boxing-to-powerlifting switch a few months ago, after 2 years of a sabbatical. I have been lifting for (effectively) 4 months now.

About me:
I’m 20 yo,
Height is 1.82m ( = 6ft),
Bw is aprox. 89kg( = 195 lbs)
Bf = aproxx 26%

PRs:
Benchpress - 1x 95kg ( = 209.5 lbs)
Dead lift - 3 singles of 130 kg (286.5 lbs)
Squat - not worth mentioning lol. [/quote]

Anyway, I’m now on the leangains (16/8) fast to lower bf% (simply cuz it’s too much fat mass I’m packing). I’m picking up Wendler’s 5/3/1 cuz I heard a lot of good things about it - some said it wasn’t for beginners, but I thought Wendler kind’a started to simply recommend it to everyone.

I was hoping to recieve some feedback on the schedule I’m planning:

Deadlift 5/3/1

  • Good Morning 5x10
  • Dumbell bent-over-rows 5x10 (or 2x 5x5?)
  • Barbell Shrugs 5x10

Bench 5/3/1

  • Incline dumbell bench 5x10
  • Dumbell bent-over-rows 5x10 (or 2x 5x5?)
  • Dips 2x failure (aprox 6)

Squat 5/3/1

  • Front Squat / Leg press 5x10
  • Hamstring curls 5x10
  • Leg raises / Good Mornings 5x10

Press 5/3/1

  • Incline db bench 5x10
  • Barbell shrugs 5x10
  • … perhaps… weighted crunches/situps?

Feedback appreciated!

I would add chins/pull-up or pulldowns on the press day.

[quote]kghof wrote:
I would add chins/pull-up or pulldowns on the press day.[/quote]

Why?:slight_smile:

How did you come up with this plan?

Are you planning on buying his book?

here are the two basic plans I’ve seen floating around that seem the most logical to me (as I do NOT have the book)

Day 1
Overhead Press - 5/3/1
Dips - 5 sets of 15 reps
Chin-ups - 5 sets of 10 reps

Day 2
Deadlift - 5/3/1
Good Morning - 5 sets of 12 reps
Hanging Leg Raise - 5 sets of 15 reps

Day 3
Bench Press - 5/3/1
Dumbbell Bench Press - 5 sets of 15 reps
Dumbbell Row - 5 sets of 10 reps

Day 4
Squat - 5/3/1
Leg Press - 5 sets of 15 reps
Leg Curl - 5 sets of 10 reps

On the next one Pick DIFFERENT assistance work for each day!

Day 1
Overhead Press - 5/3/1
Shoulders or Chest - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (DB bench, DB Incline, DB Military, Incline press, Dips, Pushups)
Lats or Upper Back - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (DB rows, Bent Over Rows, Chins, T - bar Rows, Lat Pulldowns, Face Pulls, Shrugs)
Triceps - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (Triceps Pushdowns or Triceps Extensions)

Day 2
Deadlift - 5/3/1
Hamstrings - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps
Quads - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (Leg Press, Lunges, Hack Squats)
Abs - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (Sit - ups, Hanging Leg Raises, Ab Wheel, DB Side Bend)

Day 3
Bench Press - 5/3/1
Shoulders or Chest - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (DB bench, DB Incline, DB Military, Incline press, Dips, Pushups)
Lats or Upper Back - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (DB rows, Bent Over Rows, Chins, T - bar Rows, Lat Pulldowns, Face Pulls, Shrugs)
Triceps - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (Triceps Pushdowns or Triceps Extensions)

Day 4
Squat - 5/3/1
Low Back - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (Reverse Hyper, Back Raise, Good Morning)
Quads - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (Leg Press, Lunges, Hack Squats)
Abs - 5 sets of 10 - 20 reps (Sit - ups, Hanging Leg Raises, Ab Wheel, DB Side Bend)

[quote]Kardash wrote:
Hey guys,

I’ll just copy+paste some info from an earlier thread:

[quote] Kardash wrote:
I’m a newbie that made a boxing-to-powerlifting switch a few months ago, after 2 years of a sabbatical. I have been lifting for (effectively) 4 months now.

About me:
I’m 20 yo,
Height is 1.82m ( = 6ft),
Bw is aprox. 89kg( = 195 lbs)
Bf = aproxx 26%

PRs:
Benchpress - 1x 95kg ( = 209.5 lbs)
Dead lift - 3 singles of 130 kg (286.5 lbs)
Squat - not worth mentioning lol. [/quote]

Anyway, I’m now on the leangains (16/8) fast to lower bf% (simply cuz it’s too much fat mass I’m packing). I’m picking up Wendler’s 5/3/1 cuz I heard a lot of good things about it - some said it wasn’t for beginners, but I thought Wendler kind’a started to simply recommend it to everyone.

I was hoping to recieve some feedback on the schedule I’m planning:

Deadlift 5/3/1

  • Good Morning 5x10
  • Dumbell bent-over-rows 5x10 (or 2x 5x5?)
  • Barbell Shrugs 5x10

Bench 5/3/1

  • Incline dumbell bench 5x10
  • Dumbell bent-over-rows 5x10 (or 2x 5x5?)
  • Dips 2x failure (aprox 6)

Squat 5/3/1

  • Front Squat / Leg press 5x10
  • Hamstring curls 5x10
  • Leg raises / Good Mornings 5x10

Press 5/3/1

  • Incline db bench 5x10
  • Barbell shrugs 5x10
  • … perhaps… weighted crunches/situps?

Feedback appreciated![/quote]

A couple things with this may cause some problems. One, you’ve got dumbbell rows in 2 consecutive days, this will pose a problem. This is why typically when Wendler makes a assistance work template, Bench and Press days are upper body (pressing and rowing) and Deadlift and Squat days are lower body and core days, that way nothing overlaps.

I would suggest you take a look at the periodization bible template, it’s pretty similiar to what you’re trying to do and makes everything work.

Also, start eating. Fasting is stupid.

You are welcome

Thank’s for the suggestions. I’ve picked up the 5/3/1 periodization Bible template, the training today was promising!

Boring But Big has worked wonders for me.

Yeah, but this part:

[quote] Wendler says:
If you’re afraid to eat, then please, don’t do this program [/quote]

is what makes it a no go for me lol. I’m trying to cut my 26% bf down to something like 15. So eating is restricted atm!

[quote]Kardash wrote:
Yeah, but this part:

[quote] Wendler says:
If you’re afraid to eat, then please, don’t do this program [/quote]

is what makes it a no go for me lol. I’m trying to cut my 26% bf down to something like 15. So eating is restricted atm![/quote]

What kind of conditioning are you doing?

[quote]Kardash wrote:
Yeah, but this part:

[quote] Wendler says:
If you’re afraid to eat, then please, don’t do this program [/quote]

is what makes it a no go for me lol. I’m trying to cut my 26% bf down to something like 15. So eating is restricted atm![/quote]

Then you can do just regular “boring but big”( 5x10 x 50% of tm ) or the bodyweight template.

Hey there,

i understand he doesnt want anyone modifying this work out but i was curious how important the rest time between sets was… it said 2-3 minutes and u wanted to do more like 1.5 minutes or at most 2 min… its just alot of time sitting there waiting for my next set…

[quote]aorti016@fiu.edu wrote:
Hey there,

i understand he doesnt want anyone modifying this work out but i was curious how important the rest time between sets was… it said 2-3 minutes and u wanted to do more like 1.5 minutes or at most 2 min… its just alot of time sitting there waiting for my next set… [/quote]

As long as you’re ready to go, then go.

[quote]Kardash wrote:
Yeah, but this part:

[quote] Wendler says:
If you’re afraid to eat, then please, don’t do this program [/quote]

is what makes it a no go for me lol. I’m trying to cut my 26% bf down to something like 15. So eating is restricted atm![/quote]

Work really hard in the weight room, stick with the big compound moves for assistance, don’t do anything that requires sitting on your ass (i.e. ham curls, WTF). Do some conditioning, walk around your block or whatever, it doesn’t have to be marathon training. Don’t eat shit. If you’re honestly working the program and busting your ass, your bf% will drop as you build mucscle. No fasting required. You will NOT get stronger if you are fasting, all you will get is frustrated.

[quote]sunshne wrote:

[quote]Kardash wrote:
Yeah, but this part:

[quote] Wendler says:
If you’re afraid to eat, then please, don’t do this program [/quote]

is what makes it a no go for me lol. I’m trying to cut my 26% bf down to something like 15. So eating is restricted atm![/quote]

Work really hard in the weight room, stick with the big compound moves for assistance, don’t do anything that requires sitting on your ass (i.e. ham curls, WTF). Do some conditioning, walk around your block or whatever, it doesn’t have to be marathon training. Don’t eat shit. If you’re honestly working the program and busting your ass, your bf% will drop as you build mucscle. No fasting required. You will NOT get stronger if you are fasting, all you will get is frustrated.[/quote]

No offense, because all of the other advice was great, but OP needs a lot more then walking around the block. Conditioning should be taken just as seriously as lifting and diet.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]Kardash wrote:
Yeah, but this part:

[quote] Wendler says:
If you’re afraid to eat, then please, don’t do this program [/quote]

is what makes it a no go for me lol. I’m trying to cut my 26% bf down to something like 15. So eating is restricted atm![/quote]

What kind of conditioning are you doing?[/quote]

On fasting days I do long walks (30min-hour) and after lifting days (= no fastin) I sometimes do a calisthenics workout or sometimes I do it on a fasting day. I’m afraid fasting+heavy cardio might be a bit too much atm. Or maybe I’m just bitching, don’t really know lol.

[quote]sunshne wrote:
Work really hard in the weight room, stick with the big compound moves for assistance, don’t do anything that requires sitting on your ass (i.e. ham curls, WTF). Do some conditioning, walk around your block or whatever, it doesn’t have to be marathon training. Don’t eat shit. If you’re honestly working the program and busting your ass, your bf% will drop as you build mucscle. No fasting required. You will NOT get stronger if you are fasting, all you will get is frustrated.[/quote]

I’m doing the 5/3/1+periodization bible template for assistance, there’s some isolation in it (i.e. leg curls lol), but mostly compound. Also, cutting bf is my main goal atm. But because I’m a newbie (lifting 4 or 5 months effective) I think I can still make some steady newbie gains, especially with 5/3/1.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
No offense, because all of the other advice was great, but OP needs a lot more then walking around the block. Conditioning should be taken just as seriously as lifting and diet.[/quote]

What kind of conditioning would you recommend? I’m doing 5/3/1 4 days per week, in which I strife to get a max of 2000cals, and on 3 non-lifting days 1200-1500. So I don’t want to kill myself right now hehe. Suggestions?

RE Conditioning: Really need to get his 2nd edition 5/3/1 book from his website. He lays out what type of accessory exercises you should do and even gives suggested conditioning exercises like Hill Sprints. The book is like $20 and it downloads to your PC, great investment if you plan on doing this long term.

Quit the fasting and learn how to eat.

Like I said, you need to be doing a lot more then just walking.

[quote]Kardash wrote:
3 non-lifting days 1200-1500. So I don’t want to kill myself right now hehe. [/quote]

thats what my wife is eating to lose weight, combined with 2-3 weight sessions a week… but she is 5’ tall female with a desk job!

eat some food!!!