T Nation

Beginner 1st Test E/ D-Ball Cycle


#1

Hi there.
I am 27 years old, 6.3 ft tall and 135lbs… I know thats extremely skinny. I’ve been working out consistently 1hr/ 5 days a week for the past 5 years with only 20lbs weight gain. I also eat more than 6000 calories a day and more than 300g of protein in food/ protein shakes.

I’ve always struggled to gain weight even though I’m really putting in the effort. A few of my friends told me that doing a test e / d-bal cycle should help me a lot with this issue…

I did a lot of research, never heard of someone juicing at 135lbs… I’m just really tired of being skinny/ working out and doing the hardwork/ eating well though having minimal gains for 5 years…

I’ve got all the things I think I need

I have crazy bulk D-bal, around 30mg a day for a month. I think that’s an American brand

I also have meditech dianabol which I believe in German.

Which one should I use? I will definitely only use one of them.

I have the following

testerstrone enanthate 250mg (testoviron depot) which is also a German one by Bayer- actually got it from a pharmacy / medical grade and quite expensive

letrozole tablets 2.5mg. Indian brand

clomifene citrate 50mg. Indian brand

Alpha lipoic acid / ALA 100mg with other vitamins and minerals Indian brand.

N Acetylcyteine / NAC lonh 650mg Thai brand which I take daily already with 1g of low acid vitamin C

Finasteride tablets 5mg

I am a biomedical student and I have injected meds in me and others before so I don’t have an issue self administering the test e…

I was thinking my cycle should go like this:

250mg test e twice a week for 2 months
30mg D-bal/ dianabol daily for 2 months
650mg nac/ 100mg vitamin c twice daily (already doing this for years due to nasal issues).
Finasteride 5mg every other day for 2 months.
Letrozole 2.5 mg every other day for 2 months.
Clomifene citrate 25mg every other day for 2 months
ALA 100mg and other vitamins once daily for 2 months.

6000/7000 calorie a day with at lest 300g protein.

1.5 hrs workout daily, 0.5 hrs cardio 4 times a week

PCT

Clomifene citrate 50mg 1st week/ 25mg 2nd week/ 10mg 3rd week/ 5mg 4th week

Letrozole 10mg 1st week/ 7.5mg 2nd week/ 5mg 3rd week/ 2.5mg 4th week

650mg nac/ 100mg vitamin c twice daily as usual with the ALA 100mg and other vitamins once daily

Same diet and exercise plan if not heavier.

I feel like I have covered everything here. I really would like to have minimal if not none water retention… not wanting to have gyno or man boobs lol and I think at the doses I’mgoing to be taking and the safety precautions I’m taking my liver and other organs should kinda be okay, for a 2 months cycle. I’d really like to keep whatever gains I make and I’d work even harder than I already do

Please let me know if I missed something and if I should change/ add something.

I wouldn’t have access to any gear other than d-bal and test e

Note: I actually already have quite oily acne prone skin and I feel/ look bloated always coz I force myself to eat as much as possible 6000 calories daily… so is that going to get worse or will the AI help not make it worse?

Thanls for reading and any advice that I’ll get.

One more thing, if you’re going to be rude and insensitive and just wanna make fun of my size then please don’t bother writing. This is very important and serious to me. I’ve tried so hard and I feel/ think that I’m ready to try this now.

Thanks :slight_smile:


#2

If you cannot eat enough to grow, i.e, build muscle, you will not gain much on steroids other than water and intramuscular fluid(this is considered “lbm”). Then you’ll lose all your “gains” after the cycle. While your HPTA is suppressed post cycle, you may even lose existing muscle mass.

I’m not putting you down, nor am I downplaying the effects of steroids. Steroids work, but not the way you think they do. There are studies being tossed around and being interpreted by people who have never done steroids that supposedly claim otherwise. The claims are false. I understand that you will find this all over the internet but just because a lot of people are crying the same thing really loudly doesn’t make it true.

Yes, maybe you will gain a bit of actual muscle tissue if you continue with the same caloric intake due to the nutrient partitioning effects of steroids but you will not be able to maintain that when off them for obvious reasons.

Maybe you’ll somehow work harder and eat more due the excitement of being on cycle and actually gain some muscle but I’m sure you are smart enough to understand that this will only be temporary and building proper dietary habits will be what benefits you in the long run rather than playing around and causing an imbalance in your hormones that may lead to a lengthy and costly period of treatment and, in some cases, severe mental distress, if something should fuck up.

Make an educated and objective decision instead of an emotional one. I don’t post in this section anymore but I felt compelled to reply to your thread because you sound like a smart guy. There are ways to overcome your current stall with knowledge instead of drugs.

Good luck.


#3

1st of all, thanks a lot for such a quick yet detailed and genuine reply. My doctor always said that I needed 2000 Calories a day to maintain my current weight, I eat around 4000 calories more than that. I do not see how my diet here could be an issue? and I eat good food not just rubbish, quite lean meat, my body fat is 11% if not less, and I really try hard at gym and work out like 5 times a week mostly and it’s been years now… I do not know why I just cannot gain much. I can lift, I have strength, though my weight and size don’t improve much…

Doctor once 4 years ago said that I had lower testosterone levels for my age which caused me to feel tired, unmotivated and even depressed, even though my height continued to grow and stopped at 6.3 at 22 … not much muscle developed after. He actually prescribed me with oral test, think called Andriol… around 5 years ago which is when I had the most weight gain, which I kept… I thought that injecting test and combining it with d-ball and pushing myself even harder might help…


#4

I think you should post in the other sections of the forums about your issues. I’ll leave you with 2 things:

Weight Gain

It is not physiologically possible for you to not be able to gain weight if the calories consumed are adequate. Even if you have thyroid issues(which you might want to get checked), excess calories will still cause weight gain even if you have to consume a retarded amount of them. I’m not saying you may have a medical problem in this area, just getting my point across. There are various reasons why you aren’t gaining, and the most likely would be you are not consistently getting and/or overestimating the amount of calories you purport to be consuming. This would be a discussion for another section.

Testosterone Issues

See a qualified endocrinologist about your levels and get medication if required. Make sure you take into account lifestyle factors that might be the root of the problem. You might want to post your results in the TRT forum though I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the posts there since I don’t read it.


#5

have you tried changing up your workout routine. you may be training to much. try a 3 day split or some other routine to shock your muscles. sometimes this in its self will help.


#6

Others have given excellent advice but wanted to throw a few things in:

If you’re already consuming 6000 calories a day, then I don’t see how you’ll be able to maintain or make much gains, there’s a health problem that needs to be addressed.
I’d cut back on the protein: 1-1.5g/lb lbw, and really 1gm is all you’ll need with the high amount of everything else. You aren’t cutting or only consuming around maintenance so the extra protein is not of benefit to you. Up the fats and complex carbs! Don’t count sugars as caloric intake for now.

What are you numbers on lifts? Follow a program from this site or others that is different than you’ve been doing. Follow the program exactly as presented (you can skip supplement recommendations though)

I’m not recommending you do a cycle until you have a full panel done at the doctors and find you’re issue. I’ll share my thoughts in the order you wrote:

Just pick one of the dbols, shouldn’t matter. If you want you can run one for a week or two and alternate to see if one is better (you probably won’t notice even if they were)

Why are you taking finersteride?

Biomedical student? What are you going to school for? I’m actually continuing my education - RN to PN

The test is good at 500mg/week but I’d run 10-12 weeks.

The dbol would be better at 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 4 weeks on.

Holy shit that’s a lot of letro! 1/4 tab eod is more than plenty.

Clomid ed not eod.

Plan on shortening your training and upping the intensity.

Drop the Letrozole during pct unless you have liquid or turn your pills into powder or liquid and then divide your planned dose during pct by 10.
.25gm a day is good (1.75gm a week) not 10gm!

Cut back your training after cycle to an hour or less, though you’ll probably be about there following a good program.

You’re concerned about a little water retention at 135lbs? If you’re lean, any water will only hide your veins if anything. Drink a lot of water- for health, kidneys, liver, and water retention and you shouldn’t have much of a problem.


#7

Thanks a lot everyone for the replies. I am going to get tested again tomorrow and have a medical checkup to see what’s the underlying problem… Even though I’ve got all the meds and shots, I still don’t feel comfortable taking them… so I might not start the cycle just yet and do some of the things you guys kindly suggested.

TheBeat2, I am a biomedical student , just an HND level. I am actually going to nursing school soon :slight_smile: will be attending one in WI, USA.

A few people told me that I might be over-training and putting too much stress on my body, which might be true. I used to walk like 15 miles twice daily, not anymore though. Maybe I should workout 3 times a week, less cardio and change my diet up a little bit. To be honest I have also been quite depressed lately and been under a lot of stress and anxiety for approximately the past 3 years, that probably caused a lot of my health issues. I do not like food lol… at my current weight I could live on 2000 calorie diet a day but I force myself to eat around 6000 calories a day which makes me feel uncomfortable and bloated all the time… protein shake alone is around 1950 calories and that’s without milk.

sorry for the weird doses I posted :slight_smile: I was just freaking out a bit about the idea of having gyno or too much water retention…
I read that finersteride is good for protection against some of the side effects that D-bol or test e have… along with the other stuff I was gonna take…

Bench Press 100 lbs sometimes 110 or 120 if I am just starting the week
Overhead Press 90 lbs
Deadlifts 200-100lbs
Squats/ front Squats 150-180 lbs
barbell curl 90 lbs
shoulder press 120 lbs

I do all different body weight exercises as well, usually 50+ push-ups at home. I also have a set of resistance bands that I use at home varying from 20 lbs to 250 lbs.

Thanks again everyone :slight_smile:


#8

1st and foremost (IMO)
Start a nutrition log and record everything you are consuming every single day for the next couple months; some solid advice above about protein / nutrition but mostly be 100% sure about what you are consuming. I have a hard time believing you are actually consuming 6000 calories and not able to gain weight. We all know that really scrawny guy that makes this same claim that he eats a shit ton and can’t gain weight, but I’ll leave it at that alone. Its up to you to be honest with yourself
2nd) IF you are actually consuming what you claim there IS a health problem! Do NOT expect your Dr to pinpoint the problem in one afternoon visit. Realistically he wont be of much help unless you personally do your own research and persist he work with you after you’ve upset his sensitive ego, lol
3rd) DON’T train 5 days a week. Get on a very basic strength building program designed around full body workouts 2-3 times a week using compound movements. You need to get your lifts up before you worry about pumping the muscle or hypertrophy work. Moving that little weights you are able to lift for the next 2yrs will not induce enough stimulus to grow. Your 1st goal is to double those lifts (minus your shoulder press and barbell curls… not sure if that’s a typo)
4) do NOT do 50+ Pull-ups when you are at home. Eat, rest and sleep at home


#9

I think a lot of what finally came out in this paragraph must be addressed before you concern yourself with steroids. I suspect that you have done some pretty serious metabolic damage, with the history that you report here, and think this is a lot more complex than just “I’m eating 6000 calories/day and can’t gain.” I don’t mean to make light of this, but twice-a-day 15 mile (?) walk sounds like someone with exercise-induced anorexia, and if you have a history of eating disorders, there could be an awful lot more wonkiness at play here than just eating lots and not gaining.

I think you should reduce your training to a very basic 3 day/week fullbody template, cut your cardio to nothing more than normal daily walking around, maybe even cut your calorie intake to something more normal (4000?) and see if you can get things under control from a stress and anxiety standpoint. And heed @dt79’s advice as well.


#10

Everyone above has given fantastic advice, on the nutrition part I have one question, what on god’s earth is your protein powder? I have never heard of even bulking powder to give you that unless you are throwing in 6 heaping scoops of bulking powder and plenty of pb or something. You need to log nutrition very carefully, i’d say more strictly than most because at your weight, a consistent 6000 cals a day should have you throwing on a couple pounds a week.

An alternate reason im so concerned with the nutrition for you, mainly those protein shakes, is how much sugar you are taking in. Getting your fast acting carbs from fruits and such isn’t as bad but at 6000 cals a day im just making a guess that you’re in the 450-500g of carbs a day. If most of that comes from basic dextrose and not more complex stuff, It would shock me if you aren’t insulin resistant in a few years.


#11

Listen I may get bashed for this but do you already have the gear? If so I would start withe 250mg test a week and letro 5mg a week, that’s it man. See how you respond, make sure your food is on point training sessions, and don’t stop those two when you hit pct. Because let’s be honest if you already have the gear then you already made your decision.


#12

Dbol for 2 months straight?

Way to harsh to run that long, from what my research tells me.

6 weeks maybe. Use it as a kick start to your test


#13

And I don’t want to question your honesty. I really don’t WANT to. But I’m a skinny guy too. I may claim I eat more calories then I do, and blame some sort of gain god that simply is making me shit out all the calories I’m taking in. But come on man.

If you are eating THAT amount of calories, at THAT weight, you will gain weight, baring some sort of serious medical condition or abnormality.

Am I wrong to think this guy’s?

At 135, that high of a caloric intake would lead to weight gain. And with that high of a protein intake, and a 5 day a week workout routine, you’d be making natural gains.

Id be a hypocrite to tell you not to touch the gear yet. I started earlier than I ever should have.

I guess I see a bit of myself in you. So don’t take it personally. Writing this, I feel like I’m yelling at my younger self!

If you are really doing what you say you are, I’d get some bloodwork done and see where your natural test levels are. Maybe hey are naturally low?