T Nation

Begining Massive Eating Reloaded


#1


Well everyone, Ive decided to take on the massive eating diet. Im gonna try to eat in the neighborhood of 4000 cals a day. My problem is that I live in Japan, and I dont have access to a lot of the things that you all do, such as cheap meats...chicken that you dont have to completely disect before cooking (god I hate that), Nutrition Facts on the back of everything, Non-stick Pam spray (off the record, this just sucks), and I dont have Udo's or anything, however the amount of fish I have here more than makes up for it, although its expensive as hell.

Anyways, back to the point. I need to apparently hit an enormous amount of protein a day, and Im wondering if I should do this in Pro+Carb and Pro+Fat meals, or just mix it all together, and make life easier. I mean, what about oatmeal? It has fat in it unfortunately, and its so easy to make...

People who have had success with this diet, please let me know whats up, as I just started today, and I actually went over 4000 calories today. Oops. Tomorrow should work out better though. Anyways guys, i'd love to hear of your experiences. I have 12 months to put on mass, and Ive decided to go with the Anthony Ellis Gaining Mass! program's lifting, and T-Mag's Massive Eating Reloaded, and general health advice from gurus Tom Venuto, and Will Brink.

I also just found out that I can get Tuna in Japan, at 2 cans for a buck! Thats gonna help out big with my protein and fat meals. The problem seems to be that my fat allotment is limited really badly, and my protein goal is insane. 500 grams? Im thinking more like 300-400, and then the rest of the calories that came off of that would most likely go to carbs. Does this sound normal?

Just let me know whats up guys. Like I said, you're all the pros, not me.

BTW, this is a picture of me before the program, just off of Tom Venuto's BFFM program.

I got readings of 9-10% bf. I was at a weight of 93.5kg at that time too (on creatine), which is like 205 lbs I think. Does that seem right? Im taking new...starting...pictures tomorrow morning, I should upload that. I must admit, I feel like a fatass on this program, but I'll let you judge. The next picture will be up soon. Until then, enjoy/judge.


#2

How tall are you? If you're 205, I would imagine you're pretty tall.

Anyway, 500 grams is uneccesarily high. 2g/lb or about 4.4g/kg should be more than enough.

What is your fat intake like? Fat intake should be at LEAST 100g/day to maintain testosterone levels. That is a MUST if you're trying to gain mass. Not to mention it's needed to keep your bodyfat low!

Good luck, though! Just keep processed foods out of your diet, eat big, and you should grow!


#3

@ your size and possible age from the looks of the photo I would say dont worry to much about the p+c and such for now and simply clean up diet a bit and eat massive and train hard. You can slowly adapt the other steps as you learn and progress, finding what works best for you.

Though in your PWO shake at least I would consider to drop the fat and go with fast protein and carbs.

Good luck and have fun eating, training and learning. Also welcome to T-mag

Phill

Keep us posted on your progress.


#4

sorry if I didnt mention it, but Im 21, and Im 6'4" tall (194 CM). And I already took that starting pic. Ill post that here so that you can judge. This is me as of today, and my BF% readings are all over the place now, so I dont know what to go off of.

Ive also decided to get my nutrient ratios at about...

50 carb
30 protein
20 fat

This seems normal to me, and this also means that I can eat more Carb+Pro meals...and im all about that.

I just checked for about the 3rd time, and as I thought, I really do need 4000 calories a day to gain. Amazingly large if you ask me.

Here is my food log for today...feel free to speak your mind about it, and keep in mind that this is my first day, and I ended up going over 4000 cals.

Breakfast
1.5 cup Oatmeal 400
1 Banana 100
20g Whey Powder 75
1 Piece of Bread (Japan size, its actually like 170 cals, pretty huge) 170
about 1 TBSP of Peanut Butter 100

850 cals

Breakfast 2
Some pancake contraption I made with oatmeal, egg whites, apples, whey
Ended up at about 650 cals
1 Apple 70-80
200 ml milk 100

After workout drink 550 cals
(2 Bananas, 50g of Power-Ade, 40g Whey)

Meal An hour afterwards
2.5 cooked cups of brown rice
A huge amount of vegtables
Large amount of chicken (I just dont weigh this stuff, I think thats a little too anal) 650-700 cals

Dinner 1
3 Hardboiled Eggs 210
Handful of almonds 170
4 TBSP Peanut Butter 400
1 Apple 70
850 cals

Salmon Salad with assorted vegtables
25g protein shake

I actually dont know what this adds up to...the fish dont have Nutrition Facts on them, and I didnt weigh them.

Bedtime Protein Shake 40g
150 cals

That made up my day, for the most part. I dont think there is anything that I left out, other than some things that I just dont know like the fish, and I dont count soy sauce or things like that.

I hope this stuff helps. BTW, what body fat percentage do I look like? Just curious...


#5

damnit! where the hell are the replies I posted! whats going on?!???!


#6

anyways...sorry about that freak out, but I posted my new picture on here at least twice, and I dont see them on here now.

But heres the goods.

My new diet consists basically of 50-55% carbs, the rest being protein, and I would say a small 10% or so being fat...but stuff like salmon, almonds, fat from oatmeal, and the like. All good things.

This is what is recommended from Tom Venuto, a man whom I trust very much so in this area of manlyness (sp). I keep going just over 4000 calories a day too, and I may be even hitting 4500. Im on my 3rd day right now, so no big deal, if things get rough, I just drop back a bit, and wait a week for results. Right now Im just stoked about the program, and Im glad I can eat like a real man again...even if a decent amount of my stuff is protein shakes, just based on convenience and how cheap they are (3 or so a day, I take one to school, after workout, and at bedtime...at the least). But then again, I still end up getting just over 4000 calories, so keep in mind that Im eating MADD amounts of whole foods. I just wanna make sure I get ample protein also.

Today was leg day, and I blew the hell out of them today. Expect me to complain about not being able to walk in the next couple days. Its sweet though, I cant wait to get huge off of this...but the right kind of huge, no fatties.

If anyone has any advice, fire away, Im still learning here. I think Ive got most of the basics figured out, and Im ready to fine tune as much as possible.


#7


attempting the picture again...


#8

10% fat?
If you eat 4000cals/day, then that would be ~45g fat. Do you know what 45g fat looks like?


#9

I think 10% was his BF %age. Dietary fat is 20% of total cals, which will be ~100g, seems about right to me.


#10

Oops! Sorry loop! 10% seems low...


#11

you mean 10% for my body seems low? Or for my diet?

I really have no idea what bofy fat percentage Im at now...since the Accu-Meausure thing now reads basically ALL over the place. But as fat as the fat in my diet, Its not something that I really think about...as all of the fat is good, and I would reckon that Im somewhere between 80-120g daily. I get loads of protein with every meal, and and the rest of my diet is of course carbs. I wouldnt doubt that I hit 500g daily on those. Does that seem decent?

Seems like Im wingin' it a little bit here, but the honest truth is, Im just eating things that are good for me, in large quantities, and then making sure Im getting a large amount of protein.

Thanks for the replies, keep it up!


#12

That's a lot of fructose.


#13

Hi Totoroski,

There are some things in your diet I would change, here they go:

Breakfast
1.5 cup Oatmeal 400
1 Banana 100
20g Whey Powder 75
1 Piece of Bread (Japan size, its actually like 170 cals, pretty huge) 170
about 1 TBSP of Peanut Butter 100

Carbs are too high and if you are following Massive eating, too much fat in 1 meal.
Eliminate the bread and PB. Replace it with 1 cup FF cottage cheese and some berries.

850 cals

Breakfast 2
Some pancake contraption I made with oatmeal, egg whites, apples, whey
Ended up at about 650 cals
1 Apple 70-80
200 ml milk 100

I would make this meal P+F.
How about a 3 whole egg ommellete, 3 pieces of cheese and some ham, and a shake made with 3-4oz coconut milk with some Splenda.

After workout drink 550 cals
(2 Bananas, 50g of Power-Ade, 40g Whey)

Try to replace those bananas with some higher GI carbs, specially dextrose and/or maltodextrin. Try sweettarts if you can find them in Japan, they are 100% dextrose/malto.

Meal An hour afterwards
2.5 cooked cups of brown rice
A huge amount of vegtables
Large amount of chicken (I just dont weigh this stuff, I think thats a little too anal) 650-700 cals

I wouldnt include these large ammounts of vegetables here, you still want a moderate/high absorption of carbs at this time.
At least make sure to remove the skin from that chicken!!

Dinner 1
3 Hardboiled Eggs 210
Handful of almonds 170
4 TBSP Peanut Butter 400
1 Apple 70
850 cals

I would reccomend this meal to be P+C,
Instead of having 850 cals in this meal, use only 600 and move the remainder(250 kcals) to your next meal
Try this instead:
8 oz Fish
1 cup beans
1 cup brown rice

you still have 1 more meal to go, so you can go to bed with a P+F meal(dinner 2), but dont make dinner 1 P+F.

Salmon Salad with assorted vegtables
25g protein shake

Add 2T EV Olive oil (remember those 250 extra cals?)

I actually dont know what this adds up to...the fish dont have Nutrition Facts on them, and I didnt weigh them.

Bedtime Protein Shake 40g
150 cals
I would add some fats to these shake to slow absorption

Observations: You should up your fat intake, going so low is counter productive and it may also lower your T levels. As weird as it sounds, you should also up your sat fat a little bit to keep T levels high.

Sorry for the long post,
Hope this helps,

Rollus


#14

You are not making any sense. You say you are going to do 10% fat in your diet and then you say no to worry since you are taking in between 80-120g. In order for this to be 10% of diet, you'd have to eat between 7200-10800 calories!!! Do you now understand? If you are going to stick with around 4000 calories, then 80-120g of fat is about 18-30% of diet. This is a large margin. Which one is it going to be? 45g fat/10% or 120g fat/30%?


#15

ok guys, lets see if I cant get this cleared up here. First of all, on my diet, I dont have access to things like Dexotrix, Maltrim (whatever its called), sweet tarts, cottage cheese, Udo's, Splenda and some of the other things that I may have actually forgotten about. I do my best to try to supplement with what I can, but I realize that for the most part if I just keep my diet clean, and go about 2/3 carb 1/3 protein on my plate, things will take care of themselves. However keep in mind that I still very much so consider the things that you guys are posting.

The fat issue is one that I should probably try to sort out right now. Im trying to keep it at about 15-20% (sorry about the 10% confusion, I realize that thats a little rough, and I dont know if I could do that if I tried). So basically, this means that I try my darndest to keep my fats at about the 75 gram level on the day. Thats what Ive decided to go with there. I dont really do the pro+fat meals, except for my last 1 or 2 on the day. Other than that, its pro+carbs. This doesnt mean that I get in about 40g of fat on each of my last 2 meals, it simply means that with the other things that Im eating, I get decent increments of fat in them, usually anywhere from 5-10g a meal. Granted there are exceptions, Im using anything I eat with Oatmeal and a whole egg (at least 1) as an example.

This system has gotten me to about 4300 calories or so on the day. However, this is indeed an estimation, as only about 3/4 of the things that I eat have Nutrition Facts on them. So is Japan...

And about upping the Sat Fat in my diet...I think that Im probably getting enough through the red meat that Im eating on most days. Sorry I didnt include that on the plan, but I get red meat more often than not, its just a matter of how terribly expensive that is here...along with other things like chicken, vegtables, and anything thats basically good for you. Sucks for me, but I guess I just gotta grin and bear it.

I'm going to apply the aforementioned changes to my diet assuming that I can with what Im given here.

It sucks being here as far as this goes, they dont even have Pam spray.

Oh, thats another thing. I really hate cooking. Anyway I can get around doing that...that would be marvelous.

Also, I find that Im digging into my protein powder bag VERY often throughout the day. Granted I only have a shake 3 or 4 times a day, I stil end up digging in there for a scoop in my oatmeal, 2 in my yogurt, and I even found myself having a 1 scoop shake with the spaghetti that I had today, because I figured it didnt have enough quality protein. Is this a good idea? Like I said, I hate cooking, and I would much rather take supplements like Whey with some of my stuff instead of frying up loads of chicken (in which I do remove the skin...and it takes so much time (things are different in Japan)) or beef for that matter.

Ive also found the joys of a hardboiled egg, and of which I only eat about half the yolk, because of the high cholestoral (no way I spelled that right) and Sat. fat.

Again everyone, feel free to critique.


#16

First of all, oatmeal does not naturally have any fat. I don't know what kind of oatmeal you are having, is it pre-packaged? You should only be having natural, slow cooking oatmeal. Egg yolks are fine to eat, the cholesterol and fat will do you good by keeping hormonal levels in check. Try not to have too much whey protein during the day, you're better off getting whole food protein preferably from animal sources.


#17

I had some 100% natural whole grain oatmeal this morning, with oats the only ingredient listed, not pre-packaged and flavored. The label say 3 grams of fat per half cup. So oatmeal does have fat naturally.


#18

Ok now were getting too picky. Were talking fat sources. This guy is talking about oatmeal as if it is one of his fat sources. That's like those vegans who talk about rice as if it is a protein source. Yes it has protein, but it should be considered a carb source. Likewise, oatmeal has some fat, but it is a carb source not a fat source. If you are relying on oatmeal to get your fat, you got issues.


#19

the deal with the oatmeal is that Im using the Quaker kind that takes about 2 minutes in the microwave. Its listed at 9 grams of fat per 100g serving. So I consider it a source. That goes without saying.

Also, Ive recently bought some tuna. Some of the tuna has no fat, and some has about 17 grams per can! Im assuming this has to do with it being packed in oil or something. Of course I drained the oil as much as I could before eating it, but my question is...is this a good fat source, or something I should be avoiding entirely?

Another thing, I'll repeat this as much as I have to here...

I do NOT have access to all of the things you do in America, or reasonably normal countries at that. Slow cooking oats? Shit, Im lucky I have the oatmeal that I do have here. Splenda? I guarantee the Japanese have no idea what that is. There are some things like cottage cheese, but Im certainly not paying the price that they want me to, at the ONE store that its available.

So I suppose thats about it. I do have some really wierd point to make however. Ever since Ive been back into lifting, and Ive upped my calories, my body has actually tightened up (midsection too), and its wierd, because I imagined if anything I would practically balloon overnight being on a 4000-4500 calorie plan. Amazing I would say.