T Nation

Been on trt 1yr, Want to Start First Cycle


#1

Quick history....29yrs old...workout for abt a year..always been active and in good shape..went to doc (endocronologist) yr ago for low sex drive and energy...found my T was severley low (298)...did a bunch of tests etc and seems my boys work but my brain isnt sending enough signal or whatever to produce more....after abt 4 months of dialin it in ive been at 50mg every 5 days which brings my levels to around the 800s.

Want to run my first cycle and figured since i already take test cyp maybe stick with the same...not sure what size dose i should use and if i need any AI to go along with? Im assuming no need for PCT since i will just resume my normal 50mg every 5 days after cycle.

My main dilema: my doc is super anam abt my levels etc and if he figures out im blasting im sure he wo t be happy. I have three months between visits which i can probably delay to four months. Was thinkng of running 10wks if thats enough. How long will it take for my levels to return to good before i see him you think?

Would rather run 12wks as i know cyp takes longer to build up but idk if ill have enough time to come down to normal...so say ill have four months to work with.

Also currently 165lbs 5'6" eventually want to hit 185lbs (nxt yr or so)

Thanks guys


#2

[quote]MuscleupFreak wrote:
Quick history…29yrs old…workout for abt a year…always been active and in good shape…went to doc (endocronologist) yr ago for low sex drive and energy…found my T was severley low (298)…did a bunch of tests etc and seems my boys work but my brain isnt sending enough signal or whatever to produce more…after abt 4 months of dialin it in ive been at 50mg every 5 days which brings my levels to around the 800s.

Want to run my first cycle and figured since i already take test cyp maybe stick with the same…not sure what size dose i should use and if i need any AI to go along with? Im assuming no need for PCT since i will just resume my normal 50mg every 5 days after cycle.

My main dilema: my doc is super anam abt my levels etc and if he figures out im blasting im sure he wo t be happy. I have three months between visits which i can probably delay to four months. Was thinkng of running 10wks if thats enough. How long will it take for my levels to return to good before i see him you think?

Would rather run 12wks as i know cyp takes longer to build up but idk if ill have enough time to come down to normal…so say ill have four months to work with.

Also currently 165lbs 5’6" eventually want to hit 185lbs (nxt yr or so)

Thanks guys[/quote]

well, test e/cyp aren’t nearly as long acting as people used to believe… it they were, you wouldn’t use 50 mg every 5 days.

with that being said, it will take several weeks for whatever dose you use to clear your body. the higher the dose can increase the clearance as well.

additionally, you might not to worry about estrogen with your current dose, but you probably will with a real cycle.

i think you could run an 8 week cycle of 500 mg/wk or so and see good gains, and then transition back to your TRT dose. obviously it won’t be as good as if you did 12 weeks, but if you like your doc now and know he/she will be pissed if they figure out you cycled, then i wouldn’t push your luck.

your current dosing plan is pretty rare for someone on TRT, from what i’ve seen, and actually seems to be a good idea. that means, IMHO, your doc is worth keeping…


#3

i think another thing worth considering here, is using test prop in addition to your TRT test cyp.

test prop is much faster acting, and will clear out much quicker, as well. it is also reputed to have much less conversion to estrogen than test e/cyp.


#4

How about eating?


#5

Yeah would like to keep the doc for sure…hope i can make decent gains in 8wks??..if i used test prop still same dose 500mg a week? I would split it 250 2x a week…

As far as eating i eat as much as possible and take shakes but i have been Stuck at the 160-165lb mark


#6

Then eat more. Have heard this story a hundred times and 100 times your as much as possible is not even close to as much as possible.


#7

[quote]MuscleupFreak wrote:
As far as eating i eat as much as possible and take shakes but i have been Stuck at the 160-165lb mark[/quote]

What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

And, after you answer that, how consistently do you eat in that way?


#8

[quote]MuscleupFreak wrote:
Yeah would like to keep the doc for sure…hope i can make decent gains in 8wks??..if i used test prop still same dose 500mg a week? I would split it 250 2x a week…

As far as eating i eat as much as possible and take shakes but i have been Stuck at the 160-165lb mark[/quote]

well, i would not use test prop twice a week. generally it’s used every day or every other day. for simplicity’s sake, you could use 50 mg/ED, in addition to your current TRT regimen.

test prop has a different ester than test e/cyp, and is actually slightly stronger. with cyp/e you would get 70% of actual test from a dose, whereas prop will give you more like 80%.

i think you would see good gains with this dose for 8 weeks… like i said before, not as great as 12 weeks or with stronger drugs, but much easier to manage with blood tests, and stuff…


#9

Ok ill have to look i to the prop…so how much per day? And what about an AI?


#10

Good job man


#11

Start counting your macros man. If you can’t grow on TRT you’re sure as hell not going to see great results on a cycle. My levels sit around 450-500 when I’m off and I still see nice strength gains with the addition of a good diet and supps. Hop on when you get your shit straight to utilize what you’re putting in your body. Good luck.

Chizeled


#12

Guys ive been to the gym for at least a yr i have a good routine in play…i know how to eat…my levels were 298 and on my treatment sit abt 800ish…made good gains but want to boost up for a couple weeks not sure what is so confusing abt that


#13

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]MuscleupFreak wrote:
Yeah would like to keep the doc for sure…hope i can make decent gains in 8wks??..if i used test prop still same dose 500mg a week? I would split it 250 2x a week…

As far as eating i eat as much as possible and take shakes but i have been Stuck at the 160-165lb mark[/quote]

well, i would not use test prop twice a week. generally it’s used every day or every other day. for simplicity’s sake, you could use 50 mg/ED, in addition to your current TRT regimen.

test prop has a different ester than test e/cyp, and is actually slightly stronger. with cyp/e you would get 70% of actual test from a dose, whereas prop will give you more like 80%.

i think you would see good gains with this dose for 8 weeks… like i said before, not as great as 12 weeks or with stronger drugs, but much easier to manage with blood tests, and stuff…[/quote]

Nm i see u had 50mg everday and continue my 50mg every 5 days of test cyp…so i guess just wondering abt an AI ( what kind and dose)


#14

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]MuscleupFreak wrote:
As far as eating i eat as much as possible and take shakes but i have been Stuck at the 160-165lb mark[/quote]

What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

And, after you answer that, how consistently do you eat in that way?[/quote]

Still waiting.


#15

What’s confusing is how someone can “eat as much as possible” and not gain weight. We’re all here to help man. It’s much easier to help when you don’t make it as hard for us. Also by the looks of the questions you’re asking I can see why many readers including myself are assuming you don’t have much knowledge in the field. But to answer your question.

Use Test Prop instead. 8-10 weeks @ 50-75mg/ED will show some great lean gains if regimen and nutrition are spot on. After a week off your test levels should be normalized to your TRT dose. I can’t really give a definite answer on E levels with Adex though because I’ve never ran high levels of Prop to the point where I felt I needed an AI. Not a big fan of Test over 300mg/wk but thats just me. Good luck.

Chizeled


#16

^^^ This your levels are back to Natural Standards atleast enough to grow of the calories are sufficient and training stimulus is enough. One or two are off. Your looking for another miracle drug essentially to make you look average which you could do where your at if training and diet were in order. Obviously they aren’t. So what is so confusing to you? I’m not even telling you to not cycle I’m telling you to get your shit in order so it is worth it.


#17

I got u man its just everytime i talk to ppl (not just here) abt gear they always tell me to eat more…oddly enough i can eat 6 meals a day for two weeks or not eat anything until 3 in the afternoon and dinner for a few weeks and still stay the same weight…since my mid teens ive had trouble eating alot at certain times do to an anxiety issue i still deal with…its better when on meds but im trying to not have to take anything else due to some persinal issues ive had with them in the past…i eat as much as i possibly can myself…if my anxiety is at bay which it has been for a little while i can eat alot more…

i try to take in 3500-4000 calories a day…100 grams of good fats…200g of protei. And the rest carbs…this weekend i was away on vacation with my wife so my eating was a little off. Just trying to gather more info to see how i want to approach everything. Certainly not going to jump into this straight away without first learning abt it. I plan to have to take my trt for life and want to make sure that i dont mess myself up later down the line. I appreciate the help.


#18

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]MuscleupFreak wrote:
As far as eating i eat as much as possible and take shakes but i have been Stuck at the 160-165lb mark[/quote]

What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

And, after you answer that, how consistently do you eat in that way?[/quote]

Still waiting.[/quote]

Still. Waiting.

What. Exactly. Did. You. Eat. Yesterday.

Not “I usually eat 3500 calories per day” - people are notoriously terrible at estimating this stuff. What foods did you eat. How much of those foods. And how representative was “yesterday” of a normal day? If you can’t answer that question, it’s time to get the basics down first.

The answer to this is usually one of three things

Option 1:

Breakfast - a big bowl of cereal
Lunch - Subway sandwich
Dinner - chicken and a sweet potato

“See I ate really well!”


Option 2:

(describes a really good bodybuilding diet)

“But that’s not really a normal day’s intake. Sometimes I’m not hungry so I skip breakfast. And sometimes I’m too tired to cook dinner when I get home so I just have a protein shake.”


Option 3:

(Refuses to actually say what he ate yesterday because then he’d have to confront the fact that, no, he’s probably NOT actually eating 4000 calories a day every single day for 10 solid weeks, as would be required to gain a serious amount of mass; rather, he’s done it twice a week for three weeks and decided that he needs teh roidz because he can eat “all he wants” and not gain weight)


#19

I was trackin my calories with an app on my phone…so i guess i dont eat all i could physically eat in a day due to my previously stated anxiety issue sometimes are harder than others…ill have to start with tomorrows diet as my weekend was sloppy bc i was away and today was mostly on the road driving home…i dont eat a clean diet or as clean as u probably do but im just trying to bulk…ive always been lean and dnt have alot of bodyfat no matter what i eat…i will however eat cleaner when im done bulking so i can cut…


#20

Steroids will not help your anxiety issue man, nor do they care if you have one. Get your diet dialed in by tracking all macros and aim for 1.5g of protein per lb at the least. I see better results at 2.5g per lb which is much easier at your weight than at mine. I have realized that if you don’t count your cals during a bulk you will greatly under eat, I think everyone on the board can agree. I’m 214lbs and if I go off the “I’m full” scale I only end up eating 3200cals a day when my goal is 4200. I don’t know much about anxiety disorders but I’m sure if you look into its cause and remedies you’ll find yourself a solution to your nutrition because without a surplus you won’t grow. Simple as that man. Don’t worry too much about eating clean or dirty, just hit your macros and that will suffice. Good luck.

Chizeled