T Nation

Becoming Vegan (Don’t Judge)

You will have to give some numbers on that.

In the US the inclusion of meat substitutes for burgers, breakfast sausages, etc. has been due to social media “outrage” and hipsters/whiny liberals. The number of vegans has for the most part not changed in decades at a whopping 2-3% with 3/4 being women.

**And obviously profit. That is 2-3% of potential customers.

Well, I don’t have any peer-reviewed studies off hand for this data but Canada’s new Food Guide has eliminated the “dairy” and “meat” food groups and replaced them with “protein foods”. It also recommends choosing plant-based protein more often.

While this isn’t showing a direct increase in veganism, I’d say it is a heavy swing in the direction of consuming less meat/dairy…so trending much closer towards vegetarian/vegan.

Here is a CTV article claiming that over the last 15 years the Canadian vegetarian/vegan population has rose from 900,000 to 2.3M (nearly 10% of our population).

Would this not be how most things “trend” these days though? Increase in popularity via social/political influence.

Do you also have numbers to back up that assertion? Particularly the emphasized portion.

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Even if the number of vegans has not changed, the consumption of meat substitutes has increased. Also, if you remember like 10 years ago, most grocery stores had half an aisle devoted to these kinds of products and now they take up much more space and are fully integrated. Beyond specifically requests that their products are stocked alongside meat-based burgers; Just Mayo is integrated with all the other Mayo’s (and Hellman’s now makes a vegan mayo) - it’s simple economics.

I think social media outrage is as obnoxious as the next guy, but it would be wrong to say that corporate execs give a shit about some halfwit on Twitter more than their bottom line.

Finally, regarding “hipsters” and “whiny liberals” - consider that Burger King is testing its vegan whopper in St. Louis, Alabama, Georgia - not exactly bastions of hipster liberals. It did so astoundingly well that they are going to roll it out nationwide by the end of the year.

Just because a lot of whiny liberal hipster SJW whatever you want to call them type of people happen to be vegan does not place them at the root cause of modern veganism. It’s been on an uptick since before the social media phenomenon (or plague) took off, and it’s wrong to conflate the two.

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That is a rapid rise? An extra 1.4 mil in 15 years? And that is vegetarian/vegan of those most likely less than half are vegan.

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I live and breath my friend…I live and breath.

Seriously though, just look at the demographics. Who makes up vegans? Who are most likely to march, complain, petition for “change”. Since, the numbers have not changed in decades it is most likely due to a loud, vocal, and annoying minority.

I also added that profit is a driver. Since the price of “impossible” meat has come down why would the businesses that are driven by meat sales not try to capture yet another market?

I don’t disagree with you here, but you must recognize how it’s a bit presumptuous to demand numbers from someone who claims a thing while not doing the same yourself.

Congratulations!

You have completed the most important step in Veganism, telling as many people as possible without solicitation :stuck_out_tongue:

More seriously, you can meet your stated goals with a vegan diet, just supplement where required

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  • I already stated that profit was also a driver.

  • It has not been on an uptick. It has not changed in the US in decades.

I really don’t understand why you’re posting. You have done nothing to add to this thread or address the OP’s question.

Well, I guess you suggested a calorie tracking app before you derailed so thanks for that.

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So, then I did add something.

“I am interested to hear other people’s perspective especially CT’s on vegan diets and if you think the T Nation world is ready to accomodate such a fast growing trend among young people?”

And I did address something, that is it not a fast growing trend.

1990s it became trendy. Vegan restaurants started popping up. Mostly pale angry women and hipsters who are half women.

Canadians have lost the plot.

So your biggest challenge as I re-read this will be ‘being as as lean as possible’ and still getting in your protein. This will require a protein supplement or artificial meat subs, as most of your whole food protein sources like beans and lentils come with a good dose or carbs which will drive up your total calories
Doable, just takes some planning.
Being vegan isn’t a death sentence, it’s generally just the dogmatic nature of the massively vocal groups that bring on the bad rap. At the end of the day, you’re just eating a narrower range of food to reach the same goals as everyone else. You’ll be fine

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What is your view of these, especially the meat subs when health and longevity is a driver?

I don’t think it’s that big of a deal one way or the other tbh. I don’t think in moderate consumption any real issues, maybe digestion if one has a sensitive stomach. I never found any negative effects that you hear horror stories of.
No drop in energy, labido, stamina or anything.
I think people run into issues on vego/vegan diets when they just stick to one source, which is probably from the lack of complete amino profiles. That’s the main problem from my perspective with soy, if that’s all you’re eating then that’s a problem, but if it’s moderate who cares. I’d have to look back on my old PC but I read a lot of case studies, meta analysis when I was vego and, like most things it’s all conflicted and dependant on situations. Moderate consumption paired with regular exercise and whole foods, no problem
Imo

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I have considered buying higher quality meat, and eating less of it as one result.

It seems like this should cross over with veg diet strategies. Does any specific resource come to your mind for how to start learning to do this effectively? Or just lmgtfy?

I think veganism makes a lot more sense than carnivore.

I think carnivore is great for short term stuff, but there are zealots who claim they can build muscle of multiple day fasting and then eat 5000 calories worth of raw meat and eggs in one sitting to make gains, and saying otherwise is “making excuses”

Its more absurd than vegans claiming to get 200g protein off kale and broccoli. But I think veganism is a good long term approach when protein intake isnt as high of a priority. I personally would go vegetarian.

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High quality meat plus, nuts, fruit n vege.

Cutting out a whole food group LT is stupid imo.

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Agreed. Good point!