T Nation

Beatdown On Europe?


The Japanese took over Oahu by buying it. Is Europe going to be conquered by Muslim immigration? France is up to 8% Islamists, while many other advanced civilisations are being overrun in a similar manner.

"The future belongs to the fecund and the confident. And the Islamists are both, while the West -- wedded to a multiculturalism that undercuts its own confidence, a welfare state that nudges it toward sloth and self-indulgence, and a childlessness that consigns it to oblivion -- is looking ever more like the ruins of a civilization."
--- Mark Steyn

It looks, for all intents and purposes, like a Stephen King novel, where God lines up the forces of Good (the West) and the forces of Evil (the Islamists), and lets them have at it.

What do you Europeans think?


You have no clue what "Islamist" means, do you?


They were stopped at the Gates of Vienna before and it could be done again. Spain lived under the moors and emerged from those black days, so I am confident that balance will re-emerge in the world in the coming years.

An S.O.D. song comes to mind...


Enki Bilal is one of the finest islamists in France. Kaija Saariaho is good, too.



Tell that to the Jews, Lutherans, Moricos, Alumbrados or anyone interested in the arts that lived there since Ferdinand II of Aragon up until the 19th century. Ask them about the end of the black days.


From your link:

"Muslims must return to their roots of their religion, and unite politically.

Islamism is a controversial term and definitions of it vary. Leading Islamist thinkers emphasized the necessity of applying parts of sharia, or Islamic law, to modern society; of pan-Islamic political unity; and of the elimination of western military, economic, political, social, or cultural influences in the Muslim world, which they believed incompatible with Islam. In 2008, the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams also suggested the adoption of specific sharia laws into the English common law."

Sharia Law in English Common Law! Yikes, I thought only the Continent was collapsing!

Thanks, Lixy!


"The Western democracies are decadent. They will be crushed by those disciplined people in the East... It wasn't just for Germany, you know." -- Adolph Hitler, Downfall (2004)

^ Good prophecy. Bad source.


Who is Adolph Hitler? I could swear I have heard that name before.


Lixy is right. And, you must remember, that when Europe was going through the "Dark Ages", Muslim civilization was flourishing, ironically in a place called Baghdad.

This is not a radical or, in any way, dubious portrayal.


He got it from Oswald Spengler, who is a good source. He was first embraced by the Nazis but then repudiated because he was critical of Hitler and dubious of Europe and Germany's future role.


I am for mulitculturalism, but only up to a point. I am staunchly eurocentric, in that I believe in European liberal values: democracy and the right of the individual, religious freedom, seperation of church and state, etc. That is not to say that European civilization (and I include America as part of european civilization) has always lived up to those values. We can cite numerous heinous acts by Western powers but such deviation does not diminish the power of liberal ideals.

We allow Muslims to worship, but we do not allow the few fanatics among them to impose undemocratic values on our society. We also do not allow confucianism (and no matter what they may call themselves, this is the main ideology coming out of the Far East) to impose itself on our individualism. For that matter, we do not allow a group of fanatical Christians commit pedophilia in the name of religious freedom. I am, of course, talking about the fiasco going on in Texas now and in other places around the US.

My belief is that as long as such groups do not adopt violent measures to impose themself that their children will be assimilated into our culture and we need not worry about it.


That has far more to do with barbarian hordes invading from the East and violently destroying pillars of our civilization (governments, armies, libraries, universities...) than anything to do with flaws in European culture.

Nor superiority of Muslim civilization.

Nay, the inherently aggressive and conquering nature of Muslim civilization is likely what protected them against the barbaric nomads. The softer Christian/Liberal civilization of the West being crushed by the savages.

The fascists were right: fluff-bunny Western Civilization needs to grow her some teeth.



Whoever made any such claim?

Read again the part of Joe's post that I replied to and please tell us how what you wrote pertains to it.


Sir, if you read my subsequent posts, you will be reassured of my belief in european ideals.

Nonetheless, you are wrong on this point. One need only compare culture during the so-called Dark Ages in Western Europe with Muslim culture of the same period to be convinced that they were more advanced, in all ways, relative to the europeans. There is no fluffy-bunny revisionism. This is widely accepted. I suspect "serious" conservative historians would cede me this point with no reservations.

This observation in now ways diminishes my belief that Western Liberal Values are the apogeic.




Indeed, I jumped the gun a bit.

Often the "but they were more advanced during the Middle Ages" point gets brought up as if it somehow makes up for their barbarism in the modern day.

That doesn't seem to be the case here, my apology.



The West has ruined itself because it no longer accepts or believes any moral absolutes. Islamists DO have moral absolutes, which makes them a determined and belligerent force in the face of a wavering relativistic West.

Until the West rediscovers the morality of Reason (which is more powerful than hogwash Islamist mystic morality), the Muslims will continue to move in on Europe.


"Fuck the Middle East, there's too many problems...."

Do you think S.O.D where profits?


"He'll rip your eyes out and make you eat you're own lips."
"Sargent D. is coming and you're on his list..."

Ahh..such poetry, makes even Bob Dylan shed a tear.


I think you under estimate the Europeans. They tend to be pretty passive, but they are very, very, very attached to their culture. They will take it to a point, but they will also revolt in ways that make the politically correct among us cringe.