T Nation

Be Patient...


#1

I'm still without an internet connection so you'll have to be patient. Don't worry, I'll get back to you. We're working hard here. Advanced 2-a-days workouts focused on back right now.

I'm using a different approach to specialization which is called concentrated loading. Basically all the spec workouts are focused during the first part of the week then we move on to other body parts.

The split look something like this:

Monday AM: Back width
Monday PM: Eccentric-less back work

Tuesday AM: Back thickness
Tuesday PM: Eccentric-less back work

Wednesday AM: Lower back and Traps
Wednesday PM: Biceps

Thursday: Lower body

Friday: Chest & Triceps

Saturday: OFF

Sunday: Shoulders


#2

Why no eccentrics?


#3

Thibs has talked about the before, using the sled for example using straps only performing the concentric part of a movement. I believe it has something to do with not being too taxing on the nervous system and doesn't interfere with recovery while still being able to gains/benefit from it. Not 100%, but something along those lines.


#4

I don't want to be patient. You better come back soon...........or else!


#5

Yep... eccentric-less exercise is not as effective at stimulating growth, obviously. BUT it can still contribute some hypertrophy AND also improves the neural aspects involved in stimulating growth. So they can be used to increase overall training volume for a muscle without really increasing recovery needs. In fact for some reason I found eccentric-less exercises to help with recovery.


#6

Very interesting. Would this be feasible with movements like the bicep curl or bent-row where you release the weight at the top of the lift, let it drop to the floor and then pick it up for another rep, etc.


#7

I'm not disagreeing in any way, but how come deadlifts exhaust me so much more than squats when there's little to no eccentric and the ROM is so much shorter? Seemed relevant to the non-eccentric lifting topic.


#8

Thibs, can eccentric-less exercises basically only be performed with a sled, unless you have a partner or two at the gym to help during exercises?


#9

  1. with a sled
  2. with free weights or machines and a partner HELPING on the eccentric
  3. with machines doing the concentric with 1 limb and the eccentric with 2 limbs
  4. olympic lifts dropping the bar on each rep

#10

The deadlift is one of the neurally more demanding exercise. That's why a lot of powerlifters recommend doing it every 2nd or 3rd week only. In the case of the deadlift, the lack of eccentric cannot make up for the neural challenge of the exercise.


#11

We actually did this on barbell rows. Obviously in a commercial gym it would get you killed by management.


#12

Very true. I actually got into trouble because of doing overhead medicine ball slams. On the padded (2-3 inches of foam or something) part of the floor. Apparently:
1) medicine balls are not designed for throwing (tell that to ancient Greeks...)
2) it's too loud.
Naturally, I now get paranoid whenever I deadlift.

Back on topic: How about using a squat rack and unracking the bar from a lower pin and reracking it on a higher one? Not very convenient, since you still need to move it back to the lower pin, but at least it won't get you thrown out of the gym. Which might not be too bad given some gyms' "noise policy".

B.


#13

Funny. I'm the exact opposite. I can dead all day long, but full squats kill me. They take my breath and I find it so hard to recover. I'm sure it's because of my long arms and legs.


#14

That was gonna be my diagnostic. If you are structurally built to do an exercise, it is much less stressful on the CNS.

Bob Peoples (700+ deadlift at something like 170lbs 40-50 years ago) used to deadlift heavy every single day. But he had the longest arm I've seen on a normal sized man.

I have short arms, if I deadlift hard my next 2 workouts have to be either arms or neural activation because I'm not gonna do anything special in the gym.


#15

Hmmmm.....train same body parts/lift 3days in a row with high volume then rest.....interesting.

Thib, where did you get this idea? Does it come from scientific reason? I also have found that when I train with high frequency for both of strength and SIZE, training 3days in a row with massive volume keeping intensity level at high then, take longer recovery time gives me always RAPID gain more than spreading out the same body part exercise throughout a week.(EOD etc..) 2days is not enough, 4days leaves me excessive fatigue and have to drop intensity, 5days or more, OK for more pure strength but not for size and have to varying intensity or method in most cases. I think 3days in a row (keeping high volume and/or intensity) is the key.

I don't know why it requires 3DAYS IN A ROW and not 2,4,5,6...Do you have some idea about this? Optimal CNS adaptation requires certain time frame or volume or something?


#16

I've got a pretty decent deadlift (405 X 5 @ 6'1" 185ish), but my squat (low bar) is nothing special (375 X 2). I think my lower back is the weak link, but my dead is strongest at lockout (If I get it 1/3 of the way up it gets locked out) My rear foot elevated split squat is 225 X 5 and 245 X 3 leaving me to believe that my quads and glutes are fine.

Sound like a familiar question? Also, after squatting my soreness is always where my groin and hamstrings come together right beneath my glutes. Is this a flexibility issue?


#17

My DL is way ahead of my squat by nearly 100lbs and I'm infinitely better built for it being long armed and legged, but it still taxes the hell out of me. I usually only do deadlift variation once-twice a month. Funny thing is that my bench is kinda high relative to my squat and dead despite having long arms.

Oh, and eccentric-less training... sounds kinda hard to pull off in a commercial gym except for maybe preacher curls.


#18

My bench plain sucks, but I think my triceps are what's holding me back so I've been focusing on them using jm presses and heavy dips. I'm kinda lucky bc I lift at a 24 hr gym and there's never any management there when I finally make it in. I may try some of these eccentric-less training, sounds intriguing.


#19

What is the rep range you are using for the AM and PM (Eccentric-less) workouts?


#20

So basically, If you preform squats or variations on a leg spec program, going for bikeriding would help recovery? It occured to me after we lost our car in a crsah and i'm not biking to work that it's mostly cocentric work. Or am I totally wrong about this?