I’m not going to take the time to respond to everyone because I simply do not have the time.
The responses were what I expected. I have never once directly stated my position on the events of 9-11, I just asked questions, yet several of you took it upon yourselves to do for me.
As Modi pointed out a conspiracy of this magnitude to be carried out would take a large number of people and resources. It would be very difficult. At the same time, JTT and others have presented multiple articles that ask questions that have never been completely answered. Some I mentioned earlier. So, I’m not quite sure what to believe. Plus it doesn’t help that the Bush administration has a habit of lying to the public.
Lucasa,
I didn’t use a conspiracy to prove a conspiracy. Not saying the UFO’s were piloted by aliens, but the event I mentioned did happen and was documented, and low and behold, pictures do exist taken during the event.
Zap, maybe at some point I’ll go back and copy and paste all the manure that you have typed so that you can be mocked. You have an inability to be civil with anyone you disagree with. Either grow up or just don’t bother responding to my posts.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
…Zap, maybe at some point I’ll go back and copy and paste all the manure that you have typed so that you can be mocked. You have an inability to be civil with anyone you disagree with. Either grow up or just don’t bother responding to my posts.
Dustin[/quote]
I am civil to about 99.99% of the posters here. I just dislike the holocaust deniers, people that use white supremecist flags for their avatar etc.
It’s true that 9/11 gave a boost to the PNAC and helped the imperial interests of the USA. Zionists were also probably breaking the champagne since it demonized Arabs/Muslims.
The CIA gathered “Jihadists” and started training them a full six months before the Soviets started their invasion of Afghanistan.
It bit the US right back in the ass.
After the collapse of the USSR, there were armed and trained men in Afghanistan with the stated purpose of instauring an Islamic caliphate around the world. That’s how 9/11 happened. That was by no mean the first time
Al-Qaeda tried to blow up targets on American soil. Osama’s purpose was in plain sight ever since the 80s. Nobody in the US had a problem with it.
It is also not too far-fetched to assume that the Bush administration had intelligence concerning imminent attacks but failed to act on it.
US actions unarguably led to 9/11.
However, saying that they intentionally blew up 3000 people is ridiculous.
I didn’t use a conspiracy to prove a conspiracy. Not saying the UFO’s were piloted by aliens, but the event I mentioned did happen and was documented, and low and behold, pictures do exist taken during the event.
You misunderstand my “conspiracy to validate a conspiracy” assertion. Not that the event didn’t happen, but that anything surrounding the event is of questionable authenticity. Keep in mind, I’m not saying I do/don’t believe in UFOs just that given their questionable existence they don’t constitute evidence or validation. Like having a convicted forger verify the authenticity of any given documentation.
Given an actual plane, actually hitting, the actual White House exactly seven years earlier makes your piece of evidence seem pretty insignificant.
In line with the above, the event quite easily disagrees with your assertions about fighters being scrambled to the White House in minutes:
By the time our first missions were off the ground, the UFOs were nowhere to be seen. But, when our planes returned to ground, the UFOs were back, as if taunting our defenses. For hours, U.S. planes chased the illusive targets, yet without success. Pilots could actually see the perplexing objects, but as they approached, the lights of the UFOs vanished.– From your own link
Have I cleared the “conspiracy validating a conspiracy” argument up for you?
BTW- All those people walking around DC (it was the US’s 9th largest city in 1950) for hours while these UFOs flew around on the 20th and then again on the 26th and how many photos are there?
However, saying that they intentionally blew up 3000 people is ridiculous.
My 2 cts.[/quote]
I officially rescind any statements I may’ve made to the effect of you being nuttier than JTF. The difference in absolute magnitude is unclear, but the relative difference is apparent.
I am civil to about 99.99% of the posters here. I just dislike the holocaust deniers, people that use white supremecist flags for their avatar etc.
You remind me of Tim McVeigh. [/quote]
You’re actually not civil with 99.99% of posters here. I’ve seen you resort to name calling numerous times to different board members.
My favorite one however is “fuck off Nazi!”
Earlier in this thread you called people fools for asking questions about 9-11. You do this anytime an individual says something that contradicts your precious beliefs.
You’re actually not civil with 99.99% of posters here. I’ve seen you resort to name calling numerous times to different board members.
My favorite one however is “fuck off Nazi!”
Earlier in this thread you called people fools for asking questions about 9-11. You do this anytime an individual says something that contradicts your precious beliefs.
You remind me of a hypocrite.[/quote]
It has been nearly six years since the attacks and despite the information available, conspiracy idiots keep going to the well. It becomes annoying, especially when it is clear no one is buying crazy at the moment.
As for you, I reviewed the five or six ‘unanswerable!’ questions you put forth, and I found myself with answers without even having to do any research. If you truly want the answers, do a search on this site - there have been a number of threads talking about 9/11 conspriacies - or an internet search generally. It may require some work and intelligence on your part, but hey, life is tough that way.
So stop wasting everyone’s time. If JTF was right about even half of his drivel, he wouldn’t be alive to post it.
The political forum here at T-Nation was once pretty good, with sharp posters and interesting discussions. It has been cluttered with the likes of you and your ilk - “do you think that maybe the Zionists astrally projected and exercised mind control over the terrorists, and that Bush intentionally called off the scrambled F-16s?” - and it is no wonder the quality has dropped significantly. Shame.
I am civil to about 99.99% of the posters here. I just dislike the holocaust deniers, people that use white supremecist flags for their avatar etc.
You remind me of Tim McVeigh.
You’re actually not civil with 99.99% of posters here. I’ve seen you resort to name calling numerous times to different board members.
My favorite one however is “fuck off Nazi!”
Earlier in this thread you called people fools for asking questions about 9-11. You do this anytime an individual says something that contradicts your precious beliefs.
You remind me of a hypocrite.
Dustin[/quote]
With every post I am more convinced that you are filling a U-Haul with fertilizer.
It has been nearly six years since the attacks and despite the information available, conspiracy idiots keep going to the well. It becomes annoying, especially when it is clear no one is buying crazy at the moment.
[/quote]
Then why is there such a significant amount of people in the U.S. and the world who aren’t satisfied with the “official explanation”.
I can go perform a search and come up with numerous sites that are asking the same type of questions I have. These sites also do well in debunking the official record.
I certainly see nothing wrong with questioning what the government has told us, for reasons that have been mentioned on this site before.
See my above comments.
You and the vast majority of the people who post on this message board are the reason why the government doesn’t have to invade JTF’s house in the middle of the night. You mock and ridicule people who ask questions. You and others believe everything the mainstream media tells you and hence you do the “policing” yourselves.
[quote]
The political forum here at T-Nation was once pretty good, with sharp posters and interesting discussions. It has been cluttered with the likes of you and your ilk - “do you think that maybe the Zionists astrally projected and exercised mind control over the terrorists, and that Bush intentionally called off the scrambled F-16s?” - and it is no wonder the quality has dropped significantly. Shame.[/quote]
There was never really any political discourse here…at all. Since the Iraq war, it has gotten worse. You, Zap, and jeffr are perfect examples. Resorting to name calling and labeling anytime someone tries to expose the hypocrisy of the American government and impact that Israel has on the government. Of course this is all been documented to ridiculous ends, but its ignored by “you and your ilk”
Then why is there such a significant amount of people in the U.S. and the world who aren’t satisfied with the “official explanation”. [/quote]
Significant? You mean a small, bizarre minority that is has a track record in believing all kinds of conspiracies, even ones completely unrelated to 9/11?
Stop wasting my time.
Well, that is beauty - and tragedy - of the internet. As for whether they ‘debunk’ - no, they don’t, assuming you apply ordinary common sense.
Me neither, as long as the constraints of rationality and common sense keep us from entertaining the most ridiculous of claims.
Amazingly, you seem to refer to non-conspiracy types as ‘sheep’ who aren’t smart enough to think for themselves. Yet your posts give no indication of original intelligence - only a desire to be gullible. Your ‘unanswerable’ questions can be dispensed with in short order - that sounds more like you are the one with the brain problem, not the rest of us.
Idiocy. If the conspiracy were that genuine, why would the government risk the fact that one day we might stop ‘policing’ ourselves and listen to conspiracy nuts? You don’t even make sense - the claims you make, that the US government is culpable of the most heinous crimes against its own people, wouldn’t allow for such free play of ideas that could expose them.
Sure there was - just many people from both sides of the political aisle have sense enough to debate what are rational points of view. You, however, do not.
Poor baby. I guess being a conspiracy nut also entails being very sensitive to what people think about your nonsense?
Part of the problem is that the conspiracy claims have been answered over and over - so the lack of tolerance, if you will, is fueled by people such as yourself who brainlessly keeps on keeping on with material that has already been refuted. You are like children who seek attention and don’t know when to shut up while the adults talk.
If you keep asking questions that have already been answered and don’t even pass the common-sense smell test, you may invoke the ire of posters. Don’t like it? Then grow up.
Exactly, and we don’t have the Atlantic Ocean between us, a live audience watching us, nor hundred story buildings blowing up behind us. And for some reason, you think I’m just a little confused/nonsensical rather a conspirator trying to cloud the issue or debunk you.
And copies of original footage are readily made and verified as being genuine and/or unadulterated. But nobody has an original, nobody has a copy (in the last six years!), all we’ve got is an uploaded google video (six years later!), which means it must be true. At least with the Tube bombings you guys had authentic video withing weeks.[/quote]
[quote]Sheesh, with all the verified video evidence of UFOs you think you guys would have this video fabrication/verification BS down pat.
I agree they would’ve verified it. My point was that the ‘we lost it’ story wouldn’t fly two weeks after the attack. Six years later, the lost story is rather easily plausible. Moreover, if this is the “smoking gun”, why did it take 6 yrs. for the investigators/conspiracy nuts to ask for it, only to have the BBC say sorry. Even if the BBC had it, to call it smoking gun evidence would be a misnomer, more like “cooled, maybe a little beat up, possibly used/changed several times since, questionable chain of custody, gun.”
Yeah, a five minute tape delay between the “live” video feed and audio feed/teleprompter and a five minute satellite delay between NYC and London and suddenly you’ve got a news reporter talking about a building that is about to fall “ten minutes in the future”. Or did you think live meant as the photons hit the lens? Because it seems to me she’s clearly not standing on top of a building in NYC pointing at the skyline.[/quote]
Its funny how conspiracy “nuts” are always accused of reading too much into something and trying to find conspiracy EVERYWHERE. The video IS what it IS. The question being asked is – is it what it really appears to be?
You’ve already drawn the conclusion that the video CANNOT be what it appears to be – then proceed to provide alternate explanations because one thing you do know FOR SURE – it CAN’T POSSIBLY be what it seems.
Since the time of the video has now been pretty well confirmed, the only alternative explanation is that the reporter is standing in front of a blue screen and the footage behind her is “not live” (a la The Daily Show), which then opens up a whole other set of issues.
Not matter what kind of satellite delay or “when the photons hit the lens” explanation – the stone cold REALITY is that the reporter is supposed to be standing in front of a LIVE shot of NYC, reporting on the DEFINITE, TOTAL collapse of a SPECIFIC building that is STILL STANDING in the background, but LATER, does actually collapse. Its even the MAIN POINT of the segment, to update on the latest building collapse – "we’re talking about the Salomon Building collapsing, and indeed it has."
YOU’RE asserting that since this was a completely random event, you can’t actually be seeing what your seeing. You obviously can’t allow yourself to look at the video for what it is, so your throwing out multiple reasons to explain this away as more conspiracy garbage.
There are people much smarter than me with a helluva lot more to lose who don’t believe the official story.
For the past six years almost every single new piece of news about 9/11 has weakened the official story… bin Laden memo, FAA warnings, hijackers reported MULTIPLE times to FBI, VISA Express program for Saudis’, Able Danger, no Arabs listed on passenger lists, some hijackers still alive, people PROMOTED for failing, FAA destroying tapes, Bush not wanting an investigation, ONLY ONE LOUSY, RAILROADED CONVICTION… ONE http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/03/moussaoui.verdict/index.html
“We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us,” said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. “It was just so far from the truth…”
FBI says, “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”
on June 5, 2006, FBI spokesman, Chief of Investigative Publicity Rex Tomb said, “The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.”
etc, etc, etc…
And thats of course after you get through some of the most outrageously ridiculous, too many to list, “coincidences” and “lucky finds” that surround that day…
“A mix-up in Boston prevented the luggage from connecting with the plane that hijackers crashed into the north tower of the trade center. Seized by FBI agents at Boston’s Logan Airport, investigators said, it contained Arab-language papers revealing the identities of all 19 hijackers involved in the four hijackings, as well as information on their plans, backgrounds and motives.”
Ah yes, the only bag from 81 passengers to not make the suicide flight turns out to be the “Rosetta stone”, revealing all the names and unravelling the entire diabolical plan…
Maybe if the government watched more Scooby-Doo they could’ve come up with a much better plot.
[quote]five-twelve wrote:
What questions are there?
Two planes fly into WTC. Planes make big explosion, building fall down. Many people die. Third plane flys into pentagon. Makes big explosion, many people die.
Its hard to see how that can be a govt or media conspiracy. [/quote]
Two planes fly into WTC. THREE buildings fall down.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Yes, and I am always curious…
…if the evil powers that be have no trouble murdering by the thousands to achieve their sinister goals…
…and someone stumbles onto their dark secrets that would expose them…
…why don’t the evil powers that be kill those who know and are exposing the secrets?
Surely offing some pimple faced computer twerp is cake for the brutally efficient and vicious Zionists, Illuminate, or, I dunno, the Freemasons?
Anyone?
EDIT: the webpage offered sums it up. Hilarious.[/quote]
That scenerio (and the web page) is ridiculous.
If your trying to maintain any semblance of a free nation – why would they start whacking people thus ultimately PROVING they were correct?
Besides, its only the big guys that get “suicided”…
[i]Merrill, 72, was found with a small anchor tied around one or both ankles and what investigators believe was a shotgun wound to the head, according to a source familiar with the investigation…
[quote]Modi wrote:
Are you that synical to believe that the goverment would kill its own people to promote a war?[/quote]
That what it says in a conspiracy site called the “National Archives” anyway.
[i]Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked.
Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[/i]
So which is it? THOUSANDS or NINETEEN?
Actually it wasn’t an X-Files episode – it was from the spin-off series.
Why do you fools keep asking these dumb questions?
[/quote]
Actually the questions are almost never fully answered – thats why these things keep coming up.
People like you who are 100% convinced that the government could NEVER, EVER do something like 9/11 – willingly accept half-ass, INCONSISTENT answers, along with multitudes of mathematically inconceivable numbers of unlikely coincidences.
INCONSISTENT being the key word here:
Were told two giant towers were rammed with planes loaded with jet fuel and the massive structural damage combined with the raging fuel fire and the structural beams not having any fire-proofing eventually weakened enough that the towers totally collapsed. All these things combined caused the collapse.
Then in a GIANT illogical leap – WTC 7, which had NONE of the above things happen to it, also falls straight down in EXACTLY the same way.
This building 7: The facility’s command center is on the 23rd floor. Its walls are reinforced to withstand wind gusts of up to 160 miles per hour. It’s also bulletproof and bomb-resistant, with its own air supply, an 11,000 gallon water supply and three backup generators. http://edition.cnn.com/US/9906/07/terrorism.response/
Oddly enough the same RAGING fuel fire that brought down the WTC towers, couldn’t even burn an open book on a wooden stand at the Pentagon – but still, somehow managed to consume almost the entire 100 ton plane?
Significant? You mean a small, bizarre minority that is has a track record in believing all kinds of conspiracies, even ones completely unrelated to 9/11?
[/quote]
No, the amount is quite significant. If you cared to do any research of your own, you’d see this. But, it is easier to believe what the mainstream media tells you.
Why do you come across so arrogant. You have absolutely nothing to be arrogant about?
Or, you could stop reading my posts, since I’m wasting your time.
Oh, okay. In that case I guess the guy that put this site together didn’t apply common sense either. That, or he just loves to be ridiculed by people such as yourself.
None of my questions, or JTF’s questions are ridiculous. Or is that people like to waste their time writing articles and making websites devoted to answering these questions?
Since I’m wasting your time, I’m sure you won’t take the time to watch this. This is however, an excellent documentary, which applies “rationality and common sense” to the events of 9-11.
Interesting how the documentary points out other steel structures throughout the world that have remained standing after hours of being on fire, while the Twin Towers collapse after just minutes…this after the fuel from the jets original impact burns away and all that remains from the impact is dark smoke, which of course indicates that the fire is not hot, and is oxygen deprived.
Hilarious you can accuse me of unoriginal intelligence when it has been proven time and time again that the American people have been lied to by Bush and his handlers. This is fact and is not even controversial, yet you still believe the emperor who has no clothes.
The cheer leaders of the American government are the individuals I call sheep. Those that believe hook, line, and sinker the propaganda that iminates from the current administration.
No, of course the government would never harm or deceive Americans
Another link describing “irrational points” made about the collapse of the Twin Towers. Silly me for thinking it looked like a controlled demolition. Especially when you see the video and notice the explosives going off at various points in the towers as the floors fall one by one on top of each other. This was even shown on a news source you’d probably take seriously.
I’d rather be the child that asks questions all the time than the arrogant pricks like you and the cheer leaders who think they know everything.
[quote]
If you keep asking questions that have already been answered and don’t even pass the common-sense smell test, you may invoke the ire of posters. Don’t like it? Then grow up.[/quote]
If these questions had already been answered sufficiently people would not keep asking them. Why you don’t get that is beyond me.
Ah yes, the only bag from 81 passengers to not make the suicide flight turns out to be the “Rosetta stone”, revealing all the names and unravelling the entire diabolical plan…
Maybe if the government watched more Scooby-Doo they could’ve come up with a much better plot.[/quote]
That’s another interesting point. And why WOULD the guy be carrying lists of names in his suitcase? For what reason?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
It has been nearly six years since the attacks and despite the information available, conspiracy idiots keep going to the well.[/quote]
It’s not despite, it’s precisely because of the lack of info released that people were asking questions. Some legitimate, some downright whacky.
Ever since the release of the 9/11 commission report, it became clear that the administration was withholding information. I don’t side with the conspiracy theorists on this subject, but you have to admit that the official position was flawed plenty.
