I started this thread so that we can finally clear up the lingering confusion as to just what BBB's HGH protocol is, and isn't. I will refrain from posting my own ideas here, and I would ask everyone else to, as well, until BBB has posted, so that we can keep the initial ideas as clear and concise as possible. After that, you guys are free to take to the topic like starving dogs at a baby's carcass.
I'm hoping for an easy to understand explanation of the "standard" protocol, and perhaps some ideas on optional versions. I know you've been through this a hundred times, BBB, so I hope you don't mind my presumptuously expecting you to post your ideas about the subject again.
Only reason I didn't cut and paste is that I noticed recently your thoughts on the matter seemed to have crystallized, so to speak, and I thought perhaps you had a more concrete idea of what you had originally intended (and I'm sure you do, for that matter), as well as a gathering of the scattered musings and proposals that have been thrown around here and there by you and others.
Not BBB, but as far as I know, the only changes have been the addition of GHRP6 to inhibit the somatostatin release. I don't think a precise protocol for this has been determined, but myself and BBB were in the process of trying some things out;
GH iv + GHRP6 iv GH iv + GHRP6 IM GH iv + GHRP6 sc
Varying doses and timings as well. As far as I understood we were monitoring GIT motility as a way of establishing the somatostatin inhibition. It could also be that by including GHRP6 someone could increase the frequency of "on" days whilst on the protocol.
The only issue I have with this approach is that originally, I understood that we were trying to not only sidestep the negative feedback loop, but also stay as far away as possible from the GH release in acromegaly, whilst trying to mimick pubertal release. It seems to me that anything other than iv shots of GHRP6 would go against this. However, iv shots may not be long lasting enough to get the somatostatin-inhibition we are after in the first place.
I would wager that one would still want to keep this protocol to a maximum of EOD, even with the GHRP6 addition, purely to let GH levels reach baseline for a bit.
Whilst GHRP6 is a great product, perhaps not too many people are aware of the huge list of effects that it has. GHRP6 will increase TSH, insulin, AND glucagon. Many others as well I'm sure. Not something I'd want to play with for an extended period of time, thanks. Perhaps one shot per day, before bed on "on" days, would suffice in BBB's protocol.
I've been away for a bit so apologies if I repeated anything or missed any revelations!
Anyway... based on BBB's post, I won't say anymore!
While i understand (and expected) BBB's reluctance to discuss the subject in any greater depth than he has already, i do not think that you are not 'allowed' to discuss what you know of the use of IV GH and GHRP!
It would be ridiculous to ask OR expect such a thing (and i highly doubt that is the case either).
With all due respect, Brook but I don't think it is a question of permission being given but rather one of deep respect for one's friend to whom retribution is due for his generous efforts. A worker is worthy of his wages and nothing prevents people from contacting BBB if they desire exclusive devotion or specific information.
If I had been at doing a program with BBB either as a friend or as a paying client I would not be coming here and divulging the details of such information out of respect for him. Doing so without his initiation is akin to a violation.
This is just my own perception. I do not expect anyone to uphold my point of view.
Dave_! You've been very sorely missed around here, man; great to see you here!
And thanks for your always edifying contributions to our forum. Looks like this thread may not go quite where I thought it would, but hopefully it can take us someplace really cool nonetheless.
I am just about to embark upon experimentation with GHRP-6 as an addition to the current protocol, as is a very close personal (very large) friend of mine, and I would love to gain a bit more insight as to the best way to run this, or at least hear some different options, as we set out. We will be starting pretty well immediately, like tomorrow night.
We were going to run things as BBB mentioned in another thread: 200mcg IV before bed on GH "on" days. I would not mind trying it IM or at different dosages, nor would my friend, if you guys are interested in further test subjects.
I disagree strongly - as someone in a similar position professionally (i believe we offer slightly different things as i am more of a muscle trainer) as BBB (and i am in no way saying this is what he wants, but that it is what you are saying you or others feel obliged to give).
As an example, do you feel that Bill Roberts 'deserves' for posters to not talk in detail about his protocols (2/2 for example is the most popular one ATM) in case it takes away from any income he may get from advising someone to use it? (if he still consults which i do not think he does)
Let me put it like this - i know that i can still give a fair amount of advice on this forum (to a degree) without it affecting my training clients, as people come to me for significantly more than random, impersonal suggestions! One can write articles that don't threaten their knowledge and experience as a trainer, or their client base.
Still, i am happy to agree to disagree in this case, and i certainly don't want it to turn into something it is not - which is a matter of any importance or seriousness.
FWIW, in the same of science, I tried 500mcg with 2iu GH iv, and there was what I can best describe as a "flash" of hunger. Very short lived when compared to IM/sc (which lasts for HOURS), and was easily blunted by a glass of milk.
Far more comfortable than IM, and no hypo feeling for me.
Also, I find that by having a reasonable mini carb-load before I shoot GHRP6, the hypo feeling is far milder (obviously).
Thanks Dave and BBB. I was trying to decide how to admin this and may just go with 200mcg IV.
What seems to be the hunger threshold vs dose in SubQ injects? Somewhere around 500mcg? Sounds like it may be best to inject right before the usual bedtime meal, but possibly add some more carbs in.
BBB I'd love to hear your thoughts on GH admin in relation to meal times. I pose this to you because some recent research by me has yielded several viewpoints regarding when to eat carbs and other macros in relation to timing with GH shots. Most are basing this on SubQ admin, but I would be interested in reading your thoughts on whether there is even any signifigance in this.
I am curious about this as well. My appetite is through the roof and I am experiencing a lethargy I hadn't before between the am shot and my pre workout. That is a whole day in la la land for me. It is like I am moving in slow motion ( when I am just sleep deprived I usually respond to stimulants and now their action seems to be suppressed ).