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BBB Clarity on Last Set: AMRAP vs PR?


#1

I have original 531 and beyond. They both say NOT to do amrap on last set when doing BBB. But 6 week challenge in beyond says to "push the last set of the 531 sets(the work sets) every week. Isn’t this talking about amrap? And what is the difference between amrap and PR’s. I did a search in the forum and saw it was addressed saying again do NOT go for amrap but that you should always be going for PR’s. Please help me understand the difference. Thank you.


#2

I think that you are misinterpreting what is being said. You would always go AMRAP/PR on the last 5/3/1 set, but you only do 10 reps on the 5x10 BBB sets. So on the supplementary sets, just do what is written and don’t try to AMRAP any of those sets.


#3

Typically, BBB is done with 5s pro instead of the PR sets.

To clarify, the PR sets work well when taken for a new rep PR and not necessarily as many as you can get. Sometimes, it’s in the lifter’s best interest to just break a rep PR by one or two reps and then be done. Of course, experience will help you to dictate when to stop the set, so you are the only one that can decide how far to push it. In my experience, sometimes it’s best to just break the record for that weight and move on unless there’s a ton left in the tank.


#4

In general, all BBB templates are done with 5’s PRO. The reason is we never program short term. All 531 programs are done for long term success. See the articles on leaders/anchors or be prepared for new book. This will the best programming book ever written and will account for every single facet of training.

Training is much more than lifting. I think 100% of people will agree with that. So everything must be balanced correctly. And this 5’s PRO is balanced with BBB.

I have worked tirelessly wirh this and the program has morphed over the years to provide you and people I train with the best opportunity for long term success in every single area.


#5

Where are the leaders/anchors articles located? Tried the google, no luck.

Also, quick question about the new book:

When you say long-term training, that definition varies depending on the type/level of athlete. From what I have been able to read on 5/3/1 while not being a member of your personal forum, the longest program available is the 28-week program in the Beyond book. Since, I believe this has been downgraded to 15-weeks because the 28 was not written with 5 up/3 back in mind. Could you give us an indication on just how long long-term is?


#6

Just taking a wild guess, but i would imagine long term probably relates to a span of years/ your entire lifting career. If you have the books and the internet, you should have the resources you need to program for an extremely long time. Basically, forever. If you’re interested in the newer material, his personal forum is probably the place to find it.


#7

I should clarify that I am thinking about this as a sports program. With any plan, whether it be swimming, track, olympic or powerlifting, there is always a taper to the program in order to be physically and mentally primed for competition.

Some of these plans are as short as 6-weeks, some are three months, and others can be years. So you can see how a “lifetime” plan is essentially meaningless to me; it translates into “never compete”. There should always be a point to training.


#8

The programming, in it’s entirety can be vast. I fail to see how a “lifetime plan” some how translates into “never compete.”. If anything, i would think the opposite were true. As a competitor, you would want to have a long, encompassing plan that would account for your season/competitions. I’m guessing that I just don’t understand what your question is. You asked how long is long term? Obviously, I’m not Jim and can’t answer for him, but I imagine it’s a year, or more. If you’re looking more in depth answers from Jim, it might be a good idea to start a new thread.


#9

Having the tools to plan for a lifetime is one thing, and I think that is what you are referring to. I am almost 100% positive this is done in the book. However, I am aiming to discuss just one program.

I’ll take myself for example: swimming in college, our training cycle was from September to March. At the end of this cycle, we were tapered down to be primed to swim as fast as possible. From there, we restarted a cycle to achieve whatever goals we aimed for next.

From that example, the cycle lasts essentially seven months, and restarts every September. There was not a “4 year plan” because that would mean we only truly peak once. So with this in mind, it can easily be seen how one “lifetime plan” does not fully translate to peaking, but having the tools to create plans FOR a lifetime does.

So the question boils down to, how long does just one of those plans last?

I hope this clears everything up.


#10

Several times I’ve seen him (Jim Wendler) say, "Don’t peak, just train."
Decide on goals and let things push in and pull out of training as needed.


#11

Look, I’m just trying to get an answer from Jim about how long one of his programs are, so I don’t know how this triggered a lifting philosophy discussion. I already know how to train for my goals. It’s just a question about the new book and where to find the leader/anchor articles…


#12

Sorry. I didn’t mean to ruffle feathers. I’ve been at this a long time so I get excited about theory posts. I hate giving advice on the internet so theory discussions is all I got. :slight_smile:


#13

Usually it is 5 cycles, raising the TM each cycle. Then back of 3 cycles and start a new 5/3/1 program. There is also some published 5/3/1 challenges in this site which are complete programs.

I don’t wanna go in more detail, since this is completely laid out in his forum. But the 5/3-progression is already common knowledge.


#14

Sure, and that’s what I currently use. As you said, 5/3 is nothing new.

I’ve seen a lot of talk that there will only be programs, no templates. I suppose I was wondering if that would be any different from what we already know.


#15

I’m guessing that 90% of the book, you won’t know.

We haven’t used 5/3 in awhile now. There is nothing wrong with it but we streamlined the training even more so that people actually use correct TM.


#16

@Jim_Wendler
I’m only guessing via context clues so forgive my ignorance, but is this where the 7th week protocol would come into play?


#17

Yes. As mentioned here, it is used for three different things - one of which is referenced above. It is incredibly simple but it’ll be nice for “real time” evidence to show people they are using the wrong TM. It is only a tool to make you stronger NOT a test of how strong you are. I don’t know how else to put it.

Anyway, yes. That is one of the reasons we use it.


#18

I haven’t understood that 7th week and anchors/leaders replaces the 5/3. Kind of obvious now when I think it.


#19

Rattus - you understand this shit as well as anyone. Thank you.


#20

Cool, thank you for taking the time to reply. I’m excited to learn more about it as a piece of the puzzle in relation to the programming you and your team have been working so diligently toward.