T Nation

BB Rows

I was looking at the T-Nation tip of the day and it got me thinking. It comes from Charles Poliquin- see below:

“One problem with the barbell row is that it’s really hard for people to just use the lats and elbow flexors. They always unconsciously start to drive with the quads and use their glutes and lower back. The second thing is that the bar either hits your gut or your chest, which restricts your range of motion. The better way to do it is to just use the one-arm dumbbell row.”

What do you guys think about this? Does the benefit of handling more weight make up for limited range of motion and lack of isolation?

I think that alot of the time he talks out of his arse. I know I’m gonna get seriously flamed for that but he’s in business so he needs USPs. And ideas like that seem to be his.

You can cheat on any movement, including one-arm dumbell rows. I do both barbell and dumbell rows, as well as some other movements for variety (chest supported rows, t-bar rows…). If you concentrate on doing them with good form I don’t see any problem with the barbell row. In fact, I see a lot more people doing dumbell rows and doing them poorly (and I find it more tempting to cheat on dumbell rows myself, you can twist the torso, push with the other arm, push with the legs, etc.). Actually, for me the hardest thing to do with out cheating is the seated row, so I seldom do them. I guess it is whatever works best for you, like everything.

[quote]Pinto wrote:
I was looking at the T-Nation tip of the day and it got me thinking. It comes from Charles Poliquin- see below:

“One problem with the barbell row is that it’s really hard for people to just use the lats and elbow flexors. They always unconsciously start to drive with the quads and use their glutes and lower back. The second thing is that the bar either hits your gut or your chest, which restricts your range of motion. The better way to do it is to just use the one-arm dumbbell row.”

What do you guys think about this? Does the benefit of handling more weight make up for limited range of motion and lack of isolation?[/quote]

barbell row…good.

meat

Here’s what I do. Use a barbell with a dip in the middle of it. Gives you more range of motion for BB Row so you don’t have to sacrifice this for DB Row unless you have a stronger side. This type of barbell is also good for seated bench shrugs.

[quote]Scott aka Rice wrote:
Here’s what I do. Use a barbell with a dip in the middle of it. Gives you more range of motion for BB Row so you don’t have to sacrifice this for DB Row unless you have a stronger side. This type of barbell is also good for seated bench shrugs.[/quote]

cambered bar…good

meat

For me barbell rows are handly even a lat exercise. I’m not doing them strict. I cheat a lot and bring it to the belly and I use it to increase my deadlift.

[quote]rniel wrote:
For me barbell rows are handly even a lat exercise. I’m not doing them strict. I cheat a lot and bring it to the belly and I use it to increase my deadlift.[/quote]

It’s funny you should say that. I feel like my lats (and whole upper back for that matter) have grown more from deadlifting than from rows.

The most strict way to do a row is to row your own body. Here are a couple pictures: http://www.muscleandstrength.com/exercises/smith-machine-bodyweight-row.html

I put my feet up on a bench and use a suppinated grip. It’s a pain in the ass to get my chest to the bar. You can have a buddy stack plates on you if need be.

[quote]wfifer wrote:
The most strict way to do a row is to row your own body. Here are a couple pictures: http://www.muscleandstrength.com/exercises/smith-machine-bodyweight-row.html

I put my feet up on a bench and use a suppinated grip. It’s a pain in the ass to get my chest to the bar. You can have a buddy stack plates on you if need be. [/quote]

One of the few useful things you can actually do on a Smith Machine!

[quote]Hanley wrote:
I think that alot of the time he talks out of his arse. I know I’m gonna get seriously flamed for that but he’s in business so he needs USPs. And ideas like that seem to be his.[/quote]

I have to disagree! I see what Poliquin’s saying about the bb row. I’ve seen very few people do it with strict form.

[quote]wfifer wrote:
The most strict way to do a row is to row your own body. Here are a couple pictures: http://www.muscleandstrength.com/exercises/smith-machine-bodyweight-row.html

I put my feet up on a bench and use a suppinated grip. It’s a pain in the ass to get my chest to the bar. You can have a buddy stack plates on you if need be. [/quote]

Good call…it takes your lower back out of the equation. If im squating heavy and deadlifting i think my lower backs getting plenty of work, without doing more back exercises that work the lower back hard. Therefore i very rarely do bb row or t bar rows. Instead, i prefer supported rows

[quote]wfifer wrote:
The most strict way to do a row is to row your own body. Here are a couple pictures: http://www.muscleandstrength.com/exercises/smith-machine-bodyweight-row.html

I put my feet up on a bench and use a suppinated grip. It’s a pain in the ass to get my chest to the bar. You can have a buddy stack plates on you if need be. [/quote]

Just did that today for the first time in a long time. One of the nice things about being back in the gym and not training at home.

I got some weird looks from some of the people in the gym. Wait until I ask them to put some plates on my chest.

I got weird looks today, but I think it was because my shorts were a bit loose. =/

BB row good, DB row good, DB row on incline bench chest supported good, mic it up bro.

The BB row is great for the loads you can employ.

Phill

[quote]Hanley wrote:
I think that alot of the time he talks out of his arse. I know I’m gonna get seriously flamed for that but he’s in business so he needs USPs. And ideas like that seem to be his.[/quote]

no my friend you will not be flamed, we have been over this poloquin-BB row issue before and most here generally like/use/appreciate the barbell row … i think it is a great exercise; there’s nothing like grabbing a bar loaded with weight and pulling it off the ground towards your chest, only to put it down and do it again … it satisfies my primal urges superbly

[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
I think that alot of the time he talks out of his arse. I know I’m gonna get seriously flamed for that but he’s in business so he needs USPs. And ideas like that seem to be his.

I have to disagree! I see what Poliquin’s saying about the bb row. I’ve seen very few people do it with strict form.

[/quote]

That’s a stupid fucking statement.

Quit worrying about other people’s form and worry about your own. Form sucks? Take the weight down and tighten up.

The only reason people want to accept the dumbbell row argument is because they are easier. Period.

Fuck, most gyms don’t even have heavy enough bells for a reasonably strong lifter to get a meaningful workout, anyway.

Quit being a bunch of pussies and load the bar.

Just don’t be one of those douche bags doing a modified shrug calling it a row. If you are going to row, then for the love of God, row.

[quote]Pinto wrote:
rniel wrote:
For me barbell rows are handly even a lat exercise. I’m not doing them strict. I cheat a lot and bring it to the belly and I use it to increase my deadlift.

It’s funny you should say that. I feel like my lats (and whole upper back for that matter) have grown more from deadlifting than from rows.

[/quote]

I agree with you. But, you still need lot’s of rows.

I also really like the cambered bar idea. It never occurred to me, so it’s going to be thrown in the line-up of back exercises.

Interesting opinions here.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
I think that alot of the time he talks out of his arse. I know I’m gonna get seriously flamed for that but he’s in business so he needs USPs. And ideas like that seem to be his.

I have to disagree! I see what Poliquin’s saying about the bb row. I’ve seen very few people do it with strict form.

That’s a stupid fucking statement.

Quit worrying about other people’s form and worry about your own. Form sucks? Take the weight down and tighten up.

The only reason people want to accept the dumbbell row argument is because they are easier. Period.

Fuck, most gyms don’t even have heavy enough bells for a reasonably strong lifter to get a meaningful workout, anyway.

Quit being a bunch of pussies and load the bar.

Just don’t be one of those douche bags doing a modified shrug calling it a row. If you are going to row, then for the love of God, row.
[/quote]

Gotta agree. People are always saying how superior compound movements are and they don’t come much more whole body than BB rows.

If you’re worried so much about form then start em from the floor.

I happened to do these today for the first time in a while as well. They offer the same motion as a barbell row, only you can adjust the height of the bar and your feet for greater pulling angle versatility and you are incorporating your own bodyweight which is usually more effective.

Other than the inconvenience of stacking plates on your chest, this is a great exercise that a lot more people need to be doing.