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Battling Gyno

GYNO PROBLEM…ALSO JUST STARTED ACCUTANE!? =/

Hey just for a little history, I’m currently 20, 5’10 189lbs…i’ve been working out for about 3 years now seriously…on the “High Intensity Training” (“HIT” or Total Body to Failure Program 3x/wk) and have yielded pretty good results from it…

the only supplements i have ever taken were protein and creatine off and on up until last summer…when i took a product called “original hd” (test booster supposedly similar to halodrol) got solid results from it…(took it for 2 months,30 caps per bottle takign 1/day) and then ran 3 bottles of novedex(60 caps per bottle) taking 4 before bedtime (directions said 2-4)…september rolled around and i was out of the gym for two weeks due to getting my wisdom teeth out…at this point i was off everything for about 2 months or so now…so i decided i would run another 2 months of original hd…however…i didn’t take novedex after…

I came home for XMAS break in dec. from school and noticed my nipples hurt…i actually felt small marble lumps in both of them and when i squeezed them…brownish gold discharge came out…they also looked like they were seeming to retain fat

i went to my fam. doctor, an endocrineologist, and a surgeon…tests came back normal at the time…and the surgeon said to wait it out…b/c it happens in some males…but usually goes away…and he told me to give it 6 months…

me being impatient of course, decided when i got back to college i would research the topic and look for a quick fix…

found this gyno pill thats supposed to work and kinda did i guess…along with the fact i started watching what i was eating more…(product was called gynexin) and i used it for about a month…

about february now (2 1/2 months after the gyno was diagnosed) i also was looking for that “edge” again so i picked up a bottle of ah-89 and stacked it with mass x-treme (i think “acl” makes it—its over the counter stuff) took that for a month…didn’t really see much results…then ran another 3 bottles of novadex after for PCT…at again 4 pills a night before bed…

at this point the gyno was nearly gone or hardly there at all…(i was also eating 6 quality meals a day, not to mention was at the gym 6 days a week,—M,W,F (total body) T, TH, Sat (cardio and abs) sunday (rest)…

during the time frames from march til the beginning of may i felt the strongest i have ever been, weighed 199 and my body fat was around 12-14%, to me, i was near the best shape of my life…

i stopped the novedex (the one by gaspari) in the last week of april…went home for summer break from college…and noticed the gyno start to come back(my diet did change a bit, for the worse, as i came home and was tempted with a lot more unhealthy options)…and this time the gyno was worse than before…

i saw a surgeon…and was supposed to have surgery very soon (july 3rd)…now the insurrance says they won’t cover it, but i guess the doctor has to write them a statement or something stating a medical reason…due to the fact that they are bothering me and that they are painful…i have blue cross insurrance(first priority)…idk what to do if they don’t end up covering it =(…

on the back end…i also started accutane in Late May…(the gyno had already came back before the accutane was started) and have to watch my liver values…so i don’t want to take anything that would be bad on my liver…(even NO explode made my vals go up cuz i tried it)

my whole game plan was to get the surgery while i was on the accutane and then do my first cycle as a winny or primo (no gyno or acne) to jump start myself again after the surgery and after the accutane ended in jan of 09…cuz i rather not mess with over the counter garbage cuz i think the novedex brought back the gyno =(

IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO NOW or SHOULD DO WHILE ON THE ACCUTANE IF I DON"T END UP GETTING THE SURGERY AND IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET RID OF THE GYNO AND EXCESS FAT WITHOUT THE SURGERY?

thanks and message me if ya have any questions…

ps. I also lost 10 lbs since i came back home from school of muscle, feel weaker, and my body fat has obviously increased…could this be from the accutane or mostly from my diet??

Take nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)

It’s commonly used by steroid users to combat gyno on cycle.

Look into it.

It’s very strong.

I’d use 20mg/day for 10 days and see if that helps.

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
Take nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)

It’s commonly used by steroid users to combat gyno on cycle.

[/quote]
Again, man, not quite. Nolvadex is far more commonly used during PCT as it is a SERM.

Most steroid users would use an aromatase inhibitor (AI) on-cycle. Examples include Exemestane, Anastrozole, and Letrozole.

MORE RESEARCH – this is basic, basic stuff.

[quote]Affliction wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
Take nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)

It’s commonly used by steroid users to combat gyno on cycle.

Again, man, not quite. Nolvadex is far more commonly used during PCT as it is a SERM.

Most steroid users would use an aromatase inhibitor (AI) on-cycle. Examples include Exemestane, Anastrozole, and Letrozole.

MORE RESEARCH – this is basic, basic stuff.[/quote]

Lay off.

Anastrozole is going to be too potent IMO, and will drop his E2 levels more than he may need.

It would be more prudent to use Nolvadex to combat this gyno.

In addition, Anastrozole is usually meant to cover all sides associated with aromatizing AAS. However, for cycles such as superdrol, one would use nolvadex.
In the case of gyno only sides on a AAS cycle, one would use Nolvadex.

If OP takes .5 mg of Adex in one day, it could drop him to extreme E2 levels. It’s easy to OD Adex.

Nolvadex is a more mild estrogen control.

Save your AAS arguments with me for the steroid section.

[quote]kayveeay wrote:

A bunch of pedantic stuff in retrospect trying to show that he really does know what he was talking about, similar to how he was called out about 2x/week Sust shots.[/quote]

I’m done. You know everything. I’m sure this one, again, was a mistype.

That’s not my quote you have attached to my name.

Nice try, though.

I would never do 2x week sustanon shots. When I changed my cycle plan, I accidently said I was doing 2x week sustanon shots, but I corrected myself.

What youv’e posted is NOT my quote

Umm, yeah, genius, did you even read what I “quoted”? What I did with that quote is very commonly done when you’re trying to prove a point. It’s called paraphrasing. Granted mine contained some sarcasm.

I wouldn’t touch the OP’s situation with a ten-foot pole. That’s way too much prohormone abuse. I don’t know enough about the involved compounds to comment.

What you wrote is:[quote]
kayveeay wrote:
Take nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)

It’s commonly used by steroid users to combat gyno on cycle.
[/quote]
You will admit to that, right?

Which is a very false statement. It’s pretty much generally accepted around here that AI’s are used during and SERM’s post.

That’s what I corrected. Again, for your benefit considering with 500mg of T/week, you may have some aromatization issues, whether you like it or not.

I tried to help you out, again, but to no avail.

Get your hands on a SERM and run at 20mg/day until it subdues. Novedex is by no ways the proper PCT for a designer steroid. Like Kay said this is basic stuff that you should have read up on and learned before you even opened the box with the Haladrol clone.

DISCLAIMER: I’m not a vet, but I do have experience with running and coming off designers without ill effect (Two bouts with SD and one with Haladrol50). My advice is based on my experience with such products. Personally, I think Haladrol50 sucks monkey balls. My advice can be taken or disregarded. I will not be held liable.

Oh, so a SERM is the trick to getting rid of gyno when using a prosteroid…

look at that.

wow.

affliction, you never disagreed with my advice for the OP, you just attacked a detail.

if you got nothing against my advice for him, why start a argument on his thread? that’s just stupid.

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
Affliction wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
Take nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate)

It’s commonly used by steroid users to combat gyno on cycle.

Again, man, not quite. Nolvadex is far more commonly used during PCT as it is a SERM.

Most steroid users would use an aromatase inhibitor (AI) on-cycle. Examples include Exemestane, Anastrozole, and Letrozole.

MORE RESEARCH – this is basic, basic stuff.

Lay off.

Anastrozole is going to be too potent IMO, and will drop his E2 levels more than he may need.

It would be more prudent to use Nolvadex to combat this gyno.

In addition, Anastrozole is usually meant to cover all sides associated with aromatizing AAS. However, for cycles such as superdrol, one would use nolvadex.
In the case of gyno only sides on a AAS cycle, one would use Nolvadex.

If OP takes .5 mg of Adex in one day, it could drop him to extreme E2 levels. It’s easy to OD Adex.

Nolvadex is a more mild estrogen control.

Save your AAS arguments with me for the steroid section.[/quote]

Novadex does not get rid of gyno, it just block the recepters. I have taken .5mg of arimidex, and never had that problem, It depends on the individual. And no, I am not here to argue with you, but you clearly don’t know about anti-estrogens. Take Letro, it will get rid of mild cases of gyno, and will help in water retention, aromasin also works at .25mg every 3 days. Start out the Letro at 1.25mg every other day and go from there. As with any estrogen blocker, the key is to take the minimums, you will know that when you start seeing it disappear. Any other questions, go see a HRT specialist(they know the best)

Whats with all the bashing. Lets keep to the topic of the thread. I am having to re-read most of it because of all this mouthing off.

bmc

The Novedex stuff is ATD. If you look at the metabolite pathway, you’ll see that a small percentage actually converts into an androgen. When this happens it can actually FURTHER the shutdown, rather than help with it.

You took quite a bit of steroids, and then did PCT with a weaker steroid. Right now I’d recommend getting on a REAL SERM, and pray that your test levels recover. You said you got your bloodwork done, and it came back normal, which is a good sign. However, that’s not to say that right now it’s fine. My advice is to get bloodwork done again, and start a SERM.

Nolvadex will temporarily block gyno from happening (by blocking the receptor site) or it will temporarily shirnk existing gyno (it is a weaker estrogen so it will reduce breast tissue size a bit and reduce water retention). but to actually get rid of existing gyno something stronger like letro or surgery is required.

I have read that use of letro (to reduce estrogen and progestrone) and bromocripton (or cabergoline…to reduce prolactin) used together is effective at reducing existing gyno but I haven’t tried it.

You need to be cautious when using letro that you taper off of it because when you drop your E2 levels that low it upregulates the receptors and leaves you open to rebound gyno when the E comes back.

You are also risking seriously altering your lipid levels when taking your E that low so be sure not to do it for a prolonged period.

Best of luck. let us know how things work out for you.

FG

“In the case of gyno only sides on a AAS cycle, one would use Nolvadex.”

This is wrong.

“It would be more prudent to use Nolvadex to combat this gyno.”

OP - You do not need a bunch of strangers “prescribing” meds online! WTF people?

Brownish gold liquid? Nolvadex? WTF?

OK… OP - i would clean up your diet, diet CAN have an effect on hormone levels and as you have seen it makes a profound difference with your issues.
Go to your doctor and tell him what he needs to know - there is NO need to include the OTC hormonal stories as that is enough for your insurance company to say no (self afflicted).

Stick with painful, irritable, depressing, no confidence, sad, suicidal… etc. your insurance will cover it if it is natural and is affecting you so much.

I also think that it IS natural and you may have got it anyway, the crap you were taking may have just brought it on faster.

Please stop self prescribing yourself. I would also say that while nolvAdex is a selective anti estrogen, and MAY help to stop the gyno from worsening (no evidence to suggest CURING gyno), i truly would not feel as comfortable suggesting you use this drug as some here are - SOME of whom, who have little to no experience personally with AAS…

You simply need to work with your doctor on this, closely.
If you feel that it is getting worse even AFTER you have cleaned up your diet, then talk to him about SERM medication to block the estrogenic activity in the breast tissue - at least until you can get to surgery.

The fact you are talking about then using AAS - well that pisses me off, and i personally think if you are really that stupid, naive and reckless then maybe you DESERVE to have this embarassing and sore condition… hmm?

Hope it works out - be sensible.

JJ

EDIT:

I am not saying that there is no-one here “qualified” enough to advise you, just that there are some who are particularly UN-qualified who seem to be advising you.

work with your doctor…thats the best option.

nolvadex would likely be a waste of time. it won’t reverse your gyno at all…it simply competes for the receptor, so it would only halt any further progression, and possibly shrink the existing gyno minimally.

letrozole would be an alternative which has worked for some (myself included) to reduce existing gyno down to a level that is not noticeable.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
work with your doctor…thats the best option.

nolvadex would likely be a waste of time. it won’t reverse your gyno at all…it simply competes for the receptor, so it would only halt any further progression, and possibly shrink the existing gyno minimally.

letrozole would be an alternative which has worked for some (myself included) to reduce existing gyno down to a level that is not noticeable.

[/quote]

Does this include puffiness as well?

I actually think letro works primarily for puffiness and fatty gyno rateher than the gland.

A little subjective info here…
drugs that I PERSONALLY have found have reduced my mammory gland are:

  • Nitrazepam/benzodiazepines… weird but true.
  • Nolvadex - while on it actually swells my mammory slightly (antagonistic action i suspect) - but after it is usually a little smaller than before.
  • Alcohol WORSENS my issue significantly, puffiness AND glandular.
  • Letro at a dose of 1mg taken over a week or so has reduced my gland slightly too.

Make what you will of that lot - but mine started a few years ago, and since using nolvadex and an AI on aromatising cycles it doesnt get much worse. It will a little on cycle, then it will die right down after cycle.

Mine isnt puffiness - it is the hard lump that gets bigger or smaller FYI.

JJ

[quote] JJ wrote:
I actually think letro works primarily for puffiness and fatty gyno rateher than the gland.

A little subjective info here…
drugs that I PERSONALLY have found have reduced my mammory gland are:

  • Nitrazepam/benzodiazepines… weird but true.
  • Nolvadex - while on it actually swells my mammory slightly (antagonistic action i suspect) - but after it is usually a little smaller than before.
  • Alcohol WORSENS my issue significantly, puffiness AND glandular.
  • Letro at a dose of 1mg taken over a week or so has reduced my gland slightly too.

Make what you will of that lot - but mine started a few years ago, and since using nolvadex and an AI on aromatising cycles it doesnt get much worse. It will a little on cycle, then it will die right down after cycle.

Mine isnt puffiness - it is the hard lump that gets bigger or smaller FYI.

JJ[/quote]

Mine is both unfortunately. It hasn’t gotten any worse over the past few years, which is a good thing. Letro hopefully will get rid of my gyno so that the bottoms of my pecs look how they should.