T Nation

Basics of Bodybuilding

[quote]Kooopa wrote:

[quote]jldume wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]giograves wrote:
I wonder how many folks with crap genetics that have built awesome physiques left a quarter or more of their meals a week to chance? Highly refined but tasty and convenient vs high quality but time consuming? shrug

Your goals will dictate the level of effort and sacrifice required. [/quote]

what is a high quality meal and what is a refined?
[/quote]

I think he means something you cooked yourself and know where all the healthy ingredients come from vs going to McDonalds and getting a hamburger.
[/quote]

how does

  • a gram of protein
  • a gram of carbohydrate
  • a gram of fat
    differ in a mcdonalds burger from a homecooked meal consisting of chicken breast, rice, olive oil & broccoli?
    if you have any biochemical knowledge whatsoever your answer would be “none that affects digestion in any way possible whatsoever”. it’s about meeting the amount of macronutrients every day by not being a complete idiot about micronutrients which you obviously need and obviously also are more present in the homecooked meal i described above.

so, in a contest prep, you’ll reach a point where it’s simply not possible to eat any higher-density caloric food without starving yourself because of the limited amount of macros you’re allowed to take in each day. THAT is what makes you eat only the most filling foods like meat, rice/pasta/potatoes and so forth, not the fact that those foods are magically better than e.g. mcdonald’s macronutrient-wise.

this is exactly the kind of bullshit that everybody repeats like a lamb in the hardcore bodybuilding corner but nobody has any idea what they’re talking about. the idea of critical thinking seems completely abstract to some.[/quote]

Well God bless you sir you can stay lean and mean eating whatever once it fits your imaginary macros you assume your getting with convenience meals. Because clearly science has shown that’s the ONLY effect food has on body composition…

Most folks need to make better food choices on a daily basis to do that. Especially as we age. Young guys are always the first to defend the CICO/IIFYM dogma. So funny.

Also I Guess all protein is created equal. Gluten protein in the bun is just as good as chicken breast protein.

[quote]Kooopa wrote:

[quote]jldume wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]giograves wrote:
I wonder how many folks with crap genetics that have built awesome physiques left a quarter or more of their meals a week to chance? Highly refined but tasty and convenient vs high quality but time consuming? shrug

Your goals will dictate the level of effort and sacrifice required. [/quote]

what is a high quality meal and what is a refined?
[/quote]

I think he means something you cooked yourself and know where all the healthy ingredients come from vs going to McDonalds and getting a hamburger.
[/quote]

how does

  • a gram of protein
  • a gram of carbohydrate
  • a gram of fat
    differ in a mcdonalds burger from a homecooked meal consisting of chicken breast, rice, olive oil & broccoli?
    if you have any biochemical knowledge whatsoever your answer would be “none that affects digestion in any way possible whatsoever”. it’s about meeting the amount of macronutrients every day by not being a complete idiot about micronutrients which you obviously need and obviously also are more present in the homecooked meal i described above.

so, in a contest prep, you’ll reach a point where it’s simply not possible to eat any higher-density caloric food without starving yourself because of the limited amount of macros you’re allowed to take in each day. THAT is what makes you eat only the most filling foods like meat, rice/pasta/potatoes and so forth, not the fact that those foods are magically better than e.g. mcdonald’s macronutrient-wise.

this is exactly the kind of bullshit that everybody repeats like a lamb in the hardcore bodybuilding corner but nobody has any idea what they’re talking about. the idea of critical thinking seems completely abstract to some.[/quote]

^
Your right in regards to the end by product, Amino Acids, Sugars, and Fatty Acids…

However there are other fillers and crap in fast food burgers, and its normally on white bread. Even though a carb is a carb when it comes to final end product. The speed of absorption of the carb has a impact on insulin sensitivity and ultimately how the body will use its nutrients it has just received.

[quote]youngster543210 wrote:

[quote]BigBen0331 wrote:
Like RC says…“everybody wants to be a bodybuilder. don’t nobody want to lift no heavy a** weight!” So it’s true. I see all these people in the local gym where I train lift carelessly. Not to mention hearing some of them talking about their “diet”.

  1. Eat like you have some sense.
  2. Train hard and smart.
  3. Live the bodybuilding life 100% of the time…not just part time.

Unfortunately there are so many articles that deals with nutrition, supplementation, and exercise routines that it can get confusing. When all else fails, go back to THE BASICS!

Have you guys noticed that a lot of these people on internet forums are not even big and are trying to give supplement reviews and advice to others?

I’m not huge but I’ve put on a great deal of size the correct way and it’s taken me 4 years, so far, to do so. There is no magical pill or routine or diet and this isn’t a God given talent. You have to work for it every day.

Questions or comments welcome here[/quote]

Personally I think people tend to exaggerate greatly when it comes to building muscle. They’ll tell you “you’ve gotta eat all day long” “you gotta live the bodybuilding lifestyle all the time” “you gotta supplement and train your ass off”. Most of this is far from the truth. Especially when it comes to natural bb. Its not that hard to eat slightly above your maintenence calories(which is all that’s required to build maximal muscle) .its not to hard to spark a growth stimulus in the muscle(doesn’t take multiple sets of 10 different exercises). You certainly don’t have to change your life to put on some muscle and supplements are …well…a waste of money (cept a good whey protein) I don’t even hardly think about bodybuilding, I’m still in school and work a part time job, granted, I’ve got insane genetics, lol. But its seriously not as serious as people will tell you. Now, to get to the Olympia level, that’s a different story.
[/quote]

How big are you? BF? Age?

I just ask this because while I agree that the majority of wannabes spend WAY too much time and money on trying to be Mr. Olympia…I personally feel that to really achieve a freakish physique and the strength that typically goes along with it, one will have to do more than “hardly ever think about bodybuilding” lol.

I too was gifted with excellent genetics, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t work my ass off to get my physique to where it’s at. I’m 24, 5’8, 205, 12% bf. 18 inch cold arms, bench 405 for reps, deadlift 505 for reps, etc. While I certainly have a regular life (job, finishing my bachelors degree right now, student teaching for my degree, fiance, dogs, family, friends, etc.) I still have to set aside time and energy daily to work towards my goals.

If you’re freakishly larger and stronger than me and “never think about bodybuilding”, than I tip my hat to sir :wink: but I doubt it lol

[quote]Kooopa wrote:

[quote]jldume wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]giograves wrote:
I wonder how many folks with crap genetics that have built awesome physiques left a quarter or more of their meals a week to chance? Highly refined but tasty and convenient vs high quality but time consuming? shrug

Your goals will dictate the level of effort and sacrifice required. [/quote]

what is a high quality meal and what is a refined?
[/quote]

I think he means something you cooked yourself and know where all the healthy ingredients come from vs going to McDonalds and getting a hamburger.
[/quote]

how does

  • a gram of protein
  • a gram of carbohydrate
  • a gram of fat
    differ in a mcdonalds burger from a homecooked meal consisting of chicken breast, rice, olive oil & broccoli?
    if you have any biochemical knowledge whatsoever your answer would be “none that affects digestion in any way possible whatsoever”. it’s about meeting the amount of macronutrients every day by not being a complete idiot about micronutrients which you obviously need and obviously also are more present in the homecooked meal i described above.

so, in a contest prep, you’ll reach a point where it’s simply not possible to eat any higher-density caloric food without starving yourself because of the limited amount of macros you’re allowed to take in each day. THAT is what makes you eat only the most filling foods like meat, rice/pasta/potatoes and so forth, not the fact that those foods are magically better than e.g. mcdonald’s macronutrient-wise.

this is exactly the kind of bullshit that everybody repeats like a lamb in the hardcore bodybuilding corner but nobody has any idea what they’re talking about. the idea of critical thinking seems completely abstract to some.[/quote]
There are also these things called micronutrients and fiber. Another poster also stated the different types of carbs and fatty acids.

[quote]giograves wrote:

[quote]Kooopa wrote:

[quote]jldume wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]giograves wrote:
I wonder how many folks with crap genetics that have built awesome physiques left a quarter or more of their meals a week to chance? Highly refined but tasty and convenient vs high quality but time consuming? shrug

Your goals will dictate the level of effort and sacrifice required. [/quote]

what is a high quality meal and what is a refined?
[/quote]

I think he means something you cooked yourself and know where all the healthy ingredients come from vs going to McDonalds and getting a hamburger.
[/quote]

how does

  • a gram of protein
  • a gram of carbohydrate
  • a gram of fat
    differ in a mcdonalds burger from a homecooked meal consisting of chicken breast, rice, olive oil & broccoli?
    if you have any biochemical knowledge whatsoever your answer would be “none that affects digestion in any way possible whatsoever”. it’s about meeting the amount of macronutrients every day by not being a complete idiot about micronutrients which you obviously need and obviously also are more present in the homecooked meal i described above.

so, in a contest prep, you’ll reach a point where it’s simply not possible to eat any higher-density caloric food without starving yourself because of the limited amount of macros you’re allowed to take in each day. THAT is what makes you eat only the most filling foods like meat, rice/pasta/potatoes and so forth, not the fact that those foods are magically better than e.g. mcdonald’s macronutrient-wise.

this is exactly the kind of bullshit that everybody repeats like a lamb in the hardcore bodybuilding corner but nobody has any idea what they’re talking about. the idea of critical thinking seems completely abstract to some.[/quote]

Well God bless you sir you can stay lean and mean eating whatever once it fits your imaginary macros you assume your getting with convenience meals. Because clearly science has shown that’s the ONLY effect food has on body composition…

Most folks need to make better food choices on a daily basis to do that. Especially as we age. Young guys are always the first to defend the CICO/IIFYM dogma. So funny.

Also I Guess all protein is created equal. Gluten protein in the bun is just as good as chicken breast protein.
[/quote]

for starters IIFYM isnt dogma its backed by science and used by a good amount of bodybuilders. IIFYM debates never go well because majority of people dont even know wtf it is.

IIFYM is not a excuse to to stuff yourself with junk food all day. it was created because people got sick of hearing how kids were worried about having a single piece of pizza, because they thought it would ruin their gains. the term flexible dieting is a better way of looking a it.

if you feel like having a burger that is fine so long as you fit it into you macro nutrient intake for the day. alot of IIFYM followers also use multi viatmins and other supplements to insure that they are not lacking in there micro nutrients either.

regarding all protein being equall did you forget the thing called beef most people have between the buns lol. if you want to get technical whey is the best source of protein.

i hope that clears up some shit about IIFYM.

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]youngster543210 wrote:

[quote]BigBen0331 wrote:
Like RC says…“everybody wants to be a bodybuilder. don’t nobody want to lift no heavy a** weight!” So it’s true. I see all these people in the local gym where I train lift carelessly. Not to mention hearing some of them talking about their “diet”.

  1. Eat like you have some sense.
  2. Train hard and smart.
  3. Live the bodybuilding life 100% of the time…not just part time.

Unfortunately there are so many articles that deals with nutrition, supplementation, and exercise routines that it can get confusing. When all else fails, go back to THE BASICS!

Have you guys noticed that a lot of these people on internet forums are not even big and are trying to give supplement reviews and advice to others?

I’m not huge but I’ve put on a great deal of size the correct way and it’s taken me 4 years, so far, to do so. There is no magical pill or routine or diet and this isn’t a God given talent. You have to work for it every day.

Questions or comments welcome here[/quote]

Personally I think people tend to exaggerate greatly when it comes to building muscle. They’ll tell you “you’ve gotta eat all day long” “you gotta live the bodybuilding lifestyle all the time” “you gotta supplement and train your ass off”. Most of this is far from the truth. Especially when it comes to natural bb. Its not that hard to eat slightly above your maintenence calories(which is all that’s required to build maximal muscle) .its not to hard to spark a growth stimulus in the muscle(doesn’t take multiple sets of 10 different exercises). You certainly don’t have to change your life to put on some muscle and supplements are …well…a waste of money (cept a good whey protein) I don’t even hardly think about bodybuilding, I’m still in school and work a part time job, granted, I’ve got insane genetics, lol. But its seriously not as serious as people will tell you. Now, to get to the Olympia level, that’s a different story.
[/quote]

How big are you? BF? Age?

I just ask this because while I agree that the majority of wannabes spend WAY too much time and money on trying to be Mr. Olympia…I personally feel that to really achieve a freakish physique and the strength that typically goes along with it, one will have to do more than “hardly ever think about bodybuilding” lol.

I too was gifted with excellent genetics, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t work my ass off to get my physique to where it’s at. I’m 24, 5’8, 205, 12% bf. 18 inch cold arms, bench 405 for reps, deadlift 505 for reps, etc. While I certainly have a regular life (job, finishing my bachelors degree right now, student teaching for my degree, fiance, dogs, family, friends, etc.) I still have to set aside time and energy daily to work towards my goals.

If you’re freakishly larger and stronger than me and “never think about bodybuilding”, than I tip my hat to sir :wink: but I doubt it lol
[/quote]

Once again I hardly ever think about it. Check my profile pics if you wanna see how big I am. Also I have no idea why you think I care about your lifts, this is a bodybuilding forum. But for what its worth, my lifts are north of yours as well. You think about bodybuilding and bust your ass in the gym because you think its necessary due to you reading to many magazines.

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I let Shelby write my diet and training for the last 3 months. Here’s a quote from him in his first email with my first training split:

" In bodybuilding, as with most things in life, longevity is much more important than quick gains. The trainer who plugs along at 90% for 10 years will always beat the trainer who pushes things 110% for 3 years, gets injured and/or burned out, and quits."

Ain’t nothing wrong with just moving along in “autopilot” mode. [/quote]

This pretty much sums it up.

[quote]youngster543210 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]youngster543210 wrote:

[quote]BigBen0331 wrote:
Like RC says…“everybody wants to be a bodybuilder. don’t nobody want to lift no heavy a** weight!” So it’s true. I see all these people in the local gym where I train lift carelessly. Not to mention hearing some of them talking about their “diet”.

  1. Eat like you have some sense.
  2. Train hard and smart.
  3. Live the bodybuilding life 100% of the time…not just part time.

Unfortunately there are so many articles that deals with nutrition, supplementation, and exercise routines that it can get confusing. When all else fails, go back to THE BASICS!

Have you guys noticed that a lot of these people on internet forums are not even big and are trying to give supplement reviews and advice to others?

I’m not huge but I’ve put on a great deal of size the correct way and it’s taken me 4 years, so far, to do so. There is no magical pill or routine or diet and this isn’t a God given talent. You have to work for it every day.

Questions or comments welcome here[/quote]

Personally I think people tend to exaggerate greatly when it comes to building muscle. They’ll tell you “you’ve gotta eat all day long” “you gotta live the bodybuilding lifestyle all the time” “you gotta supplement and train your ass off”. Most of this is far from the truth. Especially when it comes to natural bb. Its not that hard to eat slightly above your maintenence calories(which is all that’s required to build maximal muscle) .its not to hard to spark a growth stimulus in the muscle(doesn’t take multiple sets of 10 different exercises). You certainly don’t have to change your life to put on some muscle and supplements are …well…a waste of money (cept a good whey protein) I don’t even hardly think about bodybuilding, I’m still in school and work a part time job, granted, I’ve got insane genetics, lol. But its seriously not as serious as people will tell you. Now, to get to the Olympia level, that’s a different story.
[/quote]

How big are you? BF? Age?

I just ask this because while I agree that the majority of wannabes spend WAY too much time and money on trying to be Mr. Olympia…I personally feel that to really achieve a freakish physique and the strength that typically goes along with it, one will have to do more than “hardly ever think about bodybuilding” lol.

I too was gifted with excellent genetics, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t work my ass off to get my physique to where it’s at. I’m 24, 5’8, 205, 12% bf. 18 inch cold arms, bench 405 for reps, deadlift 505 for reps, etc. While I certainly have a regular life (job, finishing my bachelors degree right now, student teaching for my degree, fiance, dogs, family, friends, etc.) I still have to set aside time and energy daily to work towards my goals.

If you’re freakishly larger and stronger than me and “never think about bodybuilding”, than I tip my hat to sir :wink: but I doubt it lol
[/quote]

Once again I hardly ever think about it. Check my profile pics if you wanna see how big I am. Also I have no idea why you think I care about your lifts, this is a bodybuilding forum. But for what its worth, my lifts are north of yours as well. You think about bodybuilding and bust your ass in the gym because you think its necessary due to you reading to many magazines. [/quote]

No reason to be a dick lol…

I dont think you care about my lifts, it was just part of the conversation. And yes this is a bodybuilding forum…do bodybuilders not lift big weights from time to time to get bigger? I looked at your pics, you are a big guy. Congratulations, look great. And you say you don’t think about bodybuilding, also great that you can achieve an awesome physique without putting any thought into it lol…

And no, I don’t read magazines…they’re dumb. If by “bust my ass in the gym” you mean have a regular schedule, which is only 4 days per week of lifting no longer than 90 min at a crack, and try to stay on top of my diet, then sure.

I don’t understand why so many people on forums are so quick to be rude and dickish for no reason lol. Sorry if I some how offended you?

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]youngster543210 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]youngster543210 wrote:

[quote]BigBen0331 wrote:
Like RC says…“everybody wants to be a bodybuilder. don’t nobody want to lift no heavy a** weight!” So it’s true. I see all these people in the local gym where I train lift carelessly. Not to mention hearing some of them talking about their “diet”.

  1. Eat like you have some sense.
  2. Train hard and smart.
  3. Live the bodybuilding life 100% of the time…not just part time.

Unfortunately there are so many articles that deals with nutrition, supplementation, and exercise routines that it can get confusing. When all else fails, go back to THE BASICS!

Have you guys noticed that a lot of these people on internet forums are not even big and are trying to give supplement reviews and advice to others?

I’m not huge but I’ve put on a great deal of size the correct way and it’s taken me 4 years, so far, to do so. There is no magical pill or routine or diet and this isn’t a God given talent. You have to work for it every day.

Questions or comments welcome here[/quote]

Personally I think people tend to exaggerate greatly when it comes to building muscle. They’ll tell you “you’ve gotta eat all day long” “you gotta live the bodybuilding lifestyle all the time” “you gotta supplement and train your ass off”. Most of this is far from the truth. Especially when it comes to natural bb. Its not that hard to eat slightly above your maintenence calories(which is all that’s required to build maximal muscle) .its not to hard to spark a growth stimulus in the muscle(doesn’t take multiple sets of 10 different exercises). You certainly don’t have to change your life to put on some muscle and supplements are …well…a waste of money (cept a good whey protein) I don’t even hardly think about bodybuilding, I’m still in school and work a part time job, granted, I’ve got insane genetics, lol. But its seriously not as serious as people will tell you. Now, to get to the Olympia level, that’s a different story.
[/quote]

How big are you? BF? Age?

I just ask this because while I agree that the majority of wannabes spend WAY too much time and money on trying to be Mr. Olympia…I personally feel that to really achieve a freakish physique and the strength that typically goes along with it, one will have to do more than “hardly ever think about bodybuilding” lol.

I too was gifted with excellent genetics, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t work my ass off to get my physique to where it’s at. I’m 24, 5’8, 205, 12% bf. 18 inch cold arms, bench 405 for reps, deadlift 505 for reps, etc. While I certainly have a regular life (job, finishing my bachelors degree right now, student teaching for my degree, fiance, dogs, family, friends, etc.) I still have to set aside time and energy daily to work towards my goals.

If you’re freakishly larger and stronger than me and “never think about bodybuilding”, than I tip my hat to sir :wink: but I doubt it lol
[/quote]

Once again I hardly ever think about it. Check my profile pics if you wanna see how big I am. Also I have no idea why you think I care about your lifts, this is a bodybuilding forum. But for what its worth, my lifts are north of yours as well. You think about bodybuilding and bust your ass in the gym because you think its necessary due to you reading to many magazines. [/quote]

No reason to be a dick lol…

I dont think you care about my lifts, it was just part of the conversation. And yes this is a bodybuilding forum…do bodybuilders not lift big weights from time to time to get bigger? I looked at your pics, you are a big guy. Congratulations, look great. And you say you don’t think about bodybuilding, also great that you can achieve an awesome physique without putting any thought into it lol…

And no, I don’t read magazines…they’re dumb. If by “bust my ass in the gym” you mean have a regular schedule, which is only 4 days per week of lifting no longer than 90 min at a crack, and try to stay on top of my diet, then sure.

I don’t understand why so many people on forums are so quick to be rude and dickish for no reason lol. Sorry if I some how offended you?
[/quote]

Ummmm, read your last post to me, lol. But no worry’s bro.

I’ve found that age, genetics, and of course just random luck of the draw will determine how many ‘minor’ details an individual has to worry about in order to progress towards their goals. While my own initial training was a lot of spinning my wheels until I was able to discern exactly what needed addressing, once I sort of hit my stride and had packed on a good amount of LBM, I found that I could have more latitude in my training and diet. Obviously the issue of consistency and training smart vs just training hard factor in, but in hindsight, it’s very easy to see missteps.

Over the last few years, I’ve had clients that have needed nothing more than a well thought out program and diet outline to keep them moving steadily for months at a time. Others, have been a constant fight with their metabolisms, injuries, and recovery abilities (physical demands outside of the gym). Saying that everyone either obsesses more than they need to, or even that they should focus more is a pretty serious generalization.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve found that age, genetics, and of course just random luck of the draw will determine how many ‘minor’ details an individual has to worry about in order to progress towards their goals. While my own initial training was a lot of spinning my wheels until I was able to discern exactly what needed addressing, once I sort of hit my stride and had packed on a good amount of LBM, I found that I could have more latitude in my training and diet. Obviously the issue of consistency and training smart vs just training hard factor in, but in hindsight, it’s very easy to see missteps.

Over the last few years, I’ve had clients that have needed nothing more than a well thought out program and diet outline to keep them moving steadily for months at a time. Others, have been a constant fight with their metabolisms, injuries, and recovery abilities (physical demands outside of the gym). Saying that everyone either obsesses more than they need to, or even that they should focus more is a pretty serious generalization.

S[/quote]

Gawdd, I hope this post isn’t directed at me. You won’t quote me saying either “everyone obsesses more than they need to” or “they should focus more.”

I’m not an expert on bodybuilding, but I’m pretty knowledgeable about food and biochemistry.

The concept that you only need to worry/focus about the 3 macros is crap. Sure you need to make sure you get the right amounts of each (don’t discount fat which is absolutely required for hormone production - and a million other things), but there is a whole lot more. Preservatives, pesticides, GMO food can all impact your endocrine system and impact your body’s ability to create hormones, to metabolize food, to deal with chronic inflammation, etc.

Micronutrients are also key to your body functioning the way it is supposed to, and mass produced foods, vegetables, etc are lacking in them. Just because you don’t see or taste it, doesn’t mean your body doesn’t need it.

In short, the people who say “I get all my food from McDonalds” may be able to put on mass, and if young enough, not get too fat, but… The long term consequences to your health are significant, and this means your ability to keep lifting weights 5 and 10 years in.

–Me

[quote]kravi wrote:
I’m not an expert on bodybuilding, but I’m pretty knowledgeable about food and biochemistry.

The concept that you only need to worry/focus about the 3 macros is crap. Sure you need to make sure you get the right amounts of each (don’t discount fat which is absolutely required for hormone production - and a million other things), but there is a whole lot more. Preservatives, pesticides, GMO food can all impact your endocrine system and impact your body’s ability to create hormones, to metabolize food, to deal with chronic inflammation, etc.

Micronutrients are also key to your body functioning the way it is supposed to, and mass produced foods, vegetables, etc are lacking in them. Just because you don’t see or taste it, doesn’t mean your body doesn’t need it.

In short, the people who say “I get all my food from McDonalds” may be able to put on mass, and if young enough, not get too fat, but… The long term consequences to your health are significant, and this means your ability to keep lifting weights 5 and 10 years in.

–Me[/quote]

From a micronutrient standpoint, would you say that supplementing with a good food-derived multivitamin is sufficient? Even if you’re getting the majority of your food intake from fast food? (Not talking about preservatives, pesticides, etc., just nutrient intake.)

[quote]LoRez wrote:

From a micronutrient standpoint, would you say that supplementing with a good food-derived multivitamin is sufficient? Even if you’re getting the majority of your food intake from fast food? (Not talking about preservatives, pesticides, etc., just nutrient intake.)[/quote]

Sufficient? Not really. I mean, vitamins are great, but you are missing alot. I’d recommend multivitamin (I take dessicated liver from grass fed cows instead of a multivitamin), vitamin d (5k units for me to keep me in the 55 ng/ml range - mileage may differ), 3 grams of dha/epa fish oil (3 grams of dha/epa - it is a lot more than 3 grams of fish oil), and magnesium. That is just for vitamins.

But at the same time, what about things like selenium, iodine, chromium, manganese, etc which we need in small amounts? I put trace minerals into my water during lifting sessions, and generally supplement my filtered water with them too.

That is what I think you should take. Of course, what you shouldn’t take is harder :slight_smile:

This is where I start sounding like a flake, though, so feel free to skip. Anything processed. Anything in a box. The only things in a bag should be organic vegetables and fruit. Grass fed cow/lamb/goat/horse (if you are Canadian like Zraw), free range chicken (because they are omnivores and are healthier with bugs), hunted geese/ducks/pheasant/deer/elk/whatever. Avoid all oils except for coconut oil and American made Olive Oil. The stuff which says it comes from Italy/Greece/Spain is usually cut with non-olive oil and has food dye and other crap added (except for the really expensive stuff).

That is ideal. Obviously it is expensive to live off grass fed and free range animal, so you cut corners where you have to. But while organic vegetables may not have more vitamins in them (according to a late study), they do have more micronutrients, and do NOT have pesticides etc.

–Me

P.S. Wow, I really had diarrhea of the mouth here… Sorry folks, feel free to ignore me and my flakiness.

[quote]youngster543210 wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve found that age, genetics, and of course just random luck of the draw will determine how many ‘minor’ details an individual has to worry about in order to progress towards their goals. While my own initial training was a lot of spinning my wheels until I was able to discern exactly what needed addressing, once I sort of hit my stride and had packed on a good amount of LBM, I found that I could have more latitude in my training and diet. Obviously the issue of consistency and training smart vs just training hard factor in, but in hindsight, it’s very easy to see missteps.

Over the last few years, I’ve had clients that have needed nothing more than a well thought out program and diet outline to keep them moving steadily for months at a time. Others, have been a constant fight with their metabolisms, injuries, and recovery abilities (physical demands outside of the gym). Saying that everyone either obsesses more than they need to, or even that they should focus more is a pretty serious generalization.

S[/quote]

Gawdd, I hope this post isn’t directed at me. You won’t quote me saying either “everyone obsesses more than they need to” or “they should focus more.” [/quote]

I didn’t quote anyone, relax :slight_smile:

S

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]kravi wrote:
I’m not an expert on bodybuilding, but I’m pretty knowledgeable about food and biochemistry.

The concept that you only need to worry/focus about the 3 macros is crap. Sure you need to make sure you get the right amounts of each (don’t discount fat which is absolutely required for hormone production - and a million other things), but there is a whole lot more. Preservatives, pesticides, GMO food can all impact your endocrine system and impact your body’s ability to create hormones, to metabolize food, to deal with chronic inflammation, etc.

Micronutrients are also key to your body functioning the way it is supposed to, and mass produced foods, vegetables, etc are lacking in them. Just because you don’t see or taste it, doesn’t mean your body doesn’t need it.

In short, the people who say “I get all my food from McDonalds” may be able to put on mass, and if young enough, not get too fat, but… The long term consequences to your health are significant, and this means your ability to keep lifting weights 5 and 10 years in.

–Me[/quote]

From a micronutrient standpoint, would you say that supplementing with a good food-derived multivitamin is sufficient? Even if you’re getting the majority of your food intake from fast food? (Not talking about preservatives, pesticides, etc., just nutrient intake.)[/quote]

What about the mini-mili ones ?

I mean your question sounds a little like if you trust that the scientifics know all. Why ?
About vitamins, over the last 70 years they sell more and more of them and their profits go up and up. I do not remember wich year the cancers went down. They cause more arm than good. We never really know how much is absorbed and we never know what we are missing.
When i was young there were 1 more planet. Science evolves.

If we shoot for health we should never eat anything that was not available to our great great grandparents. It takes about 4-5 generations to really know if the results of what we can ingest are positives(about 100 years).

Just kiwis, many books rate them at or near the top for vitamin C source. I do not argue that it is false if you pick them in your background but many buy them 1600 kilometers/1000 miles + from the tree and that is a waste of money. If not tree ripened it is a bit like eating a pic of that food. It looks like it but the value is just not there.

Many tribes have way less health issues without pharmacies every 3 street corners. Process foods are meant for profits, for nourishment we do not need the majority of what is offered in grocery stores.

All the best !

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]kravi wrote:
I’m not an expert on bodybuilding, but I’m pretty knowledgeable about food and biochemistry.

The concept that you only need to worry/focus about the 3 macros is crap. Sure you need to make sure you get the right amounts of each (don’t discount fat which is absolutely required for hormone production - and a million other things), but there is a whole lot more. Preservatives, pesticides, GMO food can all impact your endocrine system and impact your body’s ability to create hormones, to metabolize food, to deal with chronic inflammation, etc.

Micronutrients are also key to your body functioning the way it is supposed to, and mass produced foods, vegetables, etc are lacking in them. Just because you don’t see or taste it, doesn’t mean your body doesn’t need it.

In short, the people who say “I get all my food from McDonalds” may be able to put on mass, and if young enough, not get too fat, but… The long term consequences to your health are significant, and this means your ability to keep lifting weights 5 and 10 years in.

–Me[/quote]

From a micronutrient standpoint, would you say that supplementing with a good food-derived multivitamin is sufficient? Even if you’re getting the majority of your food intake from fast food? (Not talking about preservatives, pesticides, etc., just nutrient intake.)[/quote]

Supplements are made for profits. Process foods are made for profits.
Why do you think you will profit if you are not the manufacturer or a reseller(wholesaler/retailer)?
Science evolves, since i went to school we lost a planet…
In 2 decades will you buy the the minimilimacros?

EDIT: I appologize for double posting the delay caught me offguard.

[quote]kravi wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

From a micronutrient standpoint, would you say that supplementing with a good food-derived multivitamin is sufficient? Even if you’re getting the majority of your food intake from fast food? (Not talking about preservatives, pesticides, etc., just nutrient intake.)[/quote]

Sufficient? Not really. I mean, vitamins are great, but you are missing alot. I’d recommend multivitamin (I take dessicated liver from grass fed cows instead of a multivitamin), vitamin d (5k units for me to keep me in the 55 ng/ml range - mileage may differ), 3 grams of dha/epa fish oil (3 grams of dha/epa - it is a lot more than 3 grams of fish oil), and magnesium. That is just for vitamins.

But at the same time, what about things like selenium, iodine, chromium, manganese, etc which we need in small amounts? I put trace minerals into my water during lifting sessions, and generally supplement my filtered water with them too.

That is what I think you should take. Of course, what you shouldn’t take is harder :slight_smile:

[…trimmed…]
[/quote]

Thanks. I actually do appreciate your take on it. I’m not going to presume that crappy food + multivitamin/multiminerals + a couple other things is as good as fresh, quality, home-grown produce, but I am interested in finding realistic alternatives that don’t leave you in a deficient state.

" finding realistic alternatives "
personaly i do not grow my own food, but i try to go seasonal. I rarely buy imported from far away. To me, variety is not a daily or a weekly thing. It is a yearly happening. Apples in season etc… At home frozen is ok 2. Without electricity, drying and freezing were options available in the old days, well depending where we live.

Top guys dont live like monks beside the weirdo Kai Greene