T Nation

Baseball, Please Help!


#1

Hey everyone, my 1st post!

A little background info.

I am 17 (18 in 2months), 84kg, about 15%bf, 6ft tall.
I am a pitcher, throw 4 seamer(topout about 84-85mph), 2seamer, splitter, curve.
My 4 seamer moves into a righty, 2semer away from a righty, splitter...lets just say its dirty, and a 2-8 curve.
I play ALL YEAR round, no true offseason!
I leg press 340kg for 8-10 reps.

MODAY
Training - Warmup, Pitching Drills, Crunches, 5? Poles (add a pole each week), Short BP

TUESDAY
Gym - LEGS - hack squats (3x15), Hamstring Curls (3x15), Calf raises (3x15), Leg Press (3x15), Leg Adduction/abduction (3x15),
BACK - Hyper-extensions (3x10)

Baseball - Warmup, softtoss, flatground drills

WEDNESDAY
Training ? Warmup, Longtoss, BP, Plyo's, Crunches, Flatground drills, 5 Poles (Increase speed/time)

THURSDAY
Baseball - Warmup, Longtoss, flatground drills, Sprints 60ft
Gym - LEGS - hack squats (3x15), Hamstring Curls (3x15), Calf raises (3x15), Leg Press (3x15), Leg Adduction/abduction (3x15),
BACK - Hyper-extensions (3x10)

FRIDAY
softoss

SATURDAY
sonftoss

SUNDAY
Game

Eating,
Usually the same most days,

Morning - 1x bowl of muesli w/3%milk (about 150g)

Mid morning - chicken sandwich + mandarin or apple

Lunch - chicken sandwich + mandarin or apple
Afternoon

Afternoon - 2minute noodles + Banana milk shake (2xbananas, 1.25-1.5 Litres of milk)

Dinner - usually some sort of meet + vegies, or Pasta and meat and vegies

I just have a few Questions:

1) - I am finding it hard to shred a little extra bf%, (i can only just see my abs), what am i doin wrong?

2) - Should i be workin uper body, if so what reps and weight?

3)- Can you please ciritque my eating habit and workout?

4) - Can any one reccomend any flat ground drills to improve mechanics?


#2

Alright, let's see if I can be of help:

1.) It's tough to say, remember that your diet is primarily responsible for this. One thing that might help is try to add a little muscle. If you add 3 pounds of lean mass without adding fat, then you've decreased your body fat percentage. If you are trying to cut up a little (which I would NOT do at your height/weight), just play around with your diet.

2.) YES! I'll get to that in a second...

3.) I'm not gonna lie to you, your workout is crap.

4.) I'm not a baseball coach so I can't help here, I'm sure somebody can.

Now to what I was saying about why your workout is crap.

A pitchers power comes mostly from his hips and core. After that the lats are probably the next most important. None of your exercises are really challenging any of that! There was a thread on here about baseball training, do a search for it and look it up, but I'll try to summarize the important things:

1.) Work the hell out of your hip extension musculature:

Deadlifts
Olympic or powerlifting-style squats.
RDL's
Good mornings
45-degree back raise
Bulgarian split squats
Step-ups
Lunges

2.) Strengthen your back:
Weighted pull-ups and rows should be your main upper body movements. Pressing should probably be limited to dumbell bench and some weighted push-ups.

3.) Save your shoulders:
Eric Cressey recently did an article about this. Look it up. You have no shoulder injury prevention work in there and you definitly need it as a pitcher.


#3

Hey man thanks for the advice!
i will add
Deadlifts
Good mornings
45-degree back raise
Bulgarian split squats
Step-ups
Lunges

what are RDL's?

So i need to add shoulder/ back/ core and abs!

My only concern with upper body is that is i "bulk" up too much and this effects my mechanics and throwing speed??

If i did higher reps would this not bulk me up as much?

Can you reccomend some other good core/hip exercise?

Also what did you think of my diet and how can it be improved?


#4

Adding some size to your upper body will not hurt your mechanics. My brother is a starting catcher for a D-1 baseball program. This summer I have him on a modified Westside template (search this site for more info) because he needs to add some size.

If everything you say is true, I hope you know you have great potential to be successful at the next level (i.e. college). Have any schools scouted you?

Do yourself a favor and seek out the BEST baseball school/instructor in your area. Try and find a pitching instructor that has at least played some minor league ball. They usually have extensive knowledge and can take your game to the next level. You will learn more from them in 1 hour about pitching than you have in your entire life. Trust me.

As for the body fat question. Sprints are the best way to lost body fat while trying to add size. Get out to the track and run some intervals (sprint/jog or sprint/walk).

I will also echo what others have said about Eric Cressey. External rotations and correcting your posture will go a long way and might give you a few extra MPH on your pitches. Your throwing arm is your ticket. TAKE CARE OF IT. I can not tell you how many ex-minor league guys I know that say "Well if I didn't blow out my arm..."

I see you are already long-tossing. Good job. Ice your arm every time you throw. It will help tremendously.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

Chris


#5

One thing to note... Look at all the MLB pitchers... do you see a consistant body type? Not at all. Everybody from David Wells to Randy Johnson to Barry Zito, etc. etc., they're all built differently. Don't be concerned about your bodyfat or muscle mass (unless you are also training for asthetics, which isn't bad though), just be concerned with what is improving your performance.

RDL = Romanian Deadlift

No, higher reps will not keep you from bulking up, in fact, sets in the 6-12 rep range are more effective for hypertrophy (getting bigger) then lower reps.

I would advise basing your program around these lifts:

Pullups (4-6 reps)
Deadlifts (3-5 reps)
Back squat (3-5 reps)
Dumbell bench (10-12 reps)
Row variation (10-12 reps)
Back raise (10-12 reps)
Split squat (10-12 reps)

For abs do things like hanging leg raises, cable crunches, etc.

And then really make sure you're devoting at least 10-15 minutes a day to shoulder prehab exercises. Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson are great guys to ask advice on this topic, check their "authors locker rooms" here.


#6

Chris >
I am having trouble finding the modified Westside template, what was the name of the thread?

Also i will try to get a hold of an ex-minor league pitcher to teach me some stuff!(thanks for the tip!)

Ive never iced my arm before how does this help?

jtrinsey >

..What you say is true, no one has the same body type....but one thing that is extremely common in ALL successful pitchers is that they al have tree trunk legs and a strong core

With the pullups, why suck low rep range?

Thanks to both of you on the tips about EC's shoulder exercises, i will include a program for shoulders, should i do shoulders every day?

I will revise my program and post it back here for your opinions on it. Also i will post another question about supplements in the supplement forum (i dont want to get flamed too soon!), if you guys could help that would be great!

Thanks Heaps,
Scott


#7

electro,

Lower reps are going to build strength more effectively than higher reps. If you can do more than 6 pull-ups with good form, start adding weight.


#8

No. You don't want to strength train every day. Follow one of the established templates on this site and that will get you started moving in the right direction.


#9

For all things Westside, look to www.elitefts.com.

There should be local baseball instructors/schools depending on where you live. If you live in the Northeast US I can give you some suggestions.

Icing helps with recovery. Throwing a baseball is a very un-natural motion to make with your arm. If you ice, you can throw more often and longer. It always helped me.

Good luck!


#10

Not to hijack the topic, but I have a program that I use for offseason baseball that I'm wondering if it's crap or if it's worth doing. There are a few questions I have after anyone who's reading is done.

Sunday:
Long Toss
Hit off tee

Monday:
Hang Snatch - 6x4
Overhead Squats - 6x4
Deadlifts - 6x4
RDL's - 3x6
Lunges - 3x5
Hit off tee

Tuesday:
30 yard sprints
Hitting and Fielding Practice

Wednesday:
Power Clean - 8x3
Front Squat - 8x3
Military Press - 8x3
CG Chin-ups - 3x6
Hit off tee

Thursday:
60 yard sprints
Long Toss
Hit off tee

Friday:
Hang Clean - 4x6
Back Squat - 4x6
Deadlift - 4x6
Seated Leg Curls - 3x8
Lunges - 3x5
Hit off tee

Saturday:
Jump Rope - 4 boxing rounds

Q1. Where can I add rotator cuff work? I used to do JOBE exercises, but they seem to hurt my labrum in my throwing arm more than they help. I think now I'm going to start doing cuban presses and other exercises that work the RC as a whole unit

Q2. Do I have enough core work? If no, please help me out a little, as I have read here that crunches are really a terrible idea for quality core movements. Also, I'm looking more specifically toward rotational core movements as those help with hitting and throwing.

Electro, I hope seeing this workout may give you a good direction to turn to if it is good. A lot of baseball S&C methods are total garbage and there is not a lot of good info out there.


#11

Ok
New program
3 sets x 10 reps for all

--Day 1--
--Legs--

seated calf raise
Hip adduction/abduction
Lunges
Rotaional lunges
Lateral lunges
Box Jumps
back raise
good mornings

--Day2--
--Upper body--

Dumbell punches
narrow grip pulldown
Dumbell row
Seated row
standing lat pulldown
shrugs
Hammer curls
tricep pressdown
hammer throw

--Day3--
--legs/back--

Squat
Straight leg calf raise
Inverted Leg Press
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
seated leg curl
Split squat
RDL
Stiff leg deadlift

Every other day
-Shoulder maintainance - with theraband+2.2kg weights
-longtoss

what days should i lift if i have
MONDAY - Training
Warmup, Pitching Drills, Crunches, 5 Poles (add a pole each week), Short Bull Pen , plyos

WEDNESDAY - Training
Warmup, Longtoss, Bull pen, Plyo's, Crunches, Flatground drills, 5 Poles (Increase speed/time)

SUNDAY - Game day

both of these sessions cant be changed, and are at night!

so what days should i lift?

and how is this new program?

What improvements could i make?

also ive done alot of research on creatine, but am still unsure how it will improve my game/training?, what creatine do you guys reccomend if so?

Thanks every one!


#12

bump.....

any one?


#13

You still have too much isolation work. Here's a list of what's isolation work in your plan:
Day 1: Seated Calf Raise, Hip Abduction
Day 2: Shrugs, Hammer Curls, Pressdowns
Day 3: Straight Calf Raise, Leg Curls, Leg extensions

It's good to see that you have squats, deads, and rowing motions in your routine. That's a good base and is fine, but take out the isolation work, as it is pointless for athletes. If you need more ideas, look at the routine above, and if you have any more questions you can post here or PM me.

As for creatine, I noticed that when I got my diet in check, and took a multi with enough protein everyday that creatine helped me hit harder, run faster, and recover quicker than before. But before recently, my diet was shit, so creatine was really a waste of money.

So yes, it does work, but a lot of other factors must be in place for it to do so.


#14

My brain hurts.


#15

I'm new to this site but I am a lifetime member of the Player's Association. Let me give this some thought and I'll get back to you. When I pitched, weights were a no=no. That's how old I am. Meanwhile don't for get your triceps, dip.
Barry