Barry Bonds and The Fans

Off Topic
21

[quote]malonetd wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:
Btw, I dont believe Bonds was the best of his time. I think Ken Griffey Jr was a better overall player NATURALLY.

I think that’s part of the problem with this whole issue. How do you know Griffey is/was natural?[/quote]

To be honest, I’m giving Griffey the benefit of the doubt. But I know full well that Griffey could have easily been as juiced up as anybody.

I’m not going to pretend like I have a factually sound, intellectual argument, I just dislike Bonds.

22

[quote]KJ Bridgewater wrote:
I just dislike Bonds.
[/quote]

Which should be irrelevant. How many people who “hate Bonds” have had a conversation with the man? You all have had dinner with him? You hang out with him and play Madden?

I would hope someone’s ability to make it to the Hall of Fame isn’t based on how many people think you are a great guy in your personal life. I have a feeling there are tons of pure ass holes who know how to work the media and most here would truly dislike them if they knew them personally.

But hey, since they know when to smile for the camera and when to sign autographs, everyone is in love with them.

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:
I just dislike Bonds.

Which should be irrelevant. How many people who “hate Bonds” have had a conversation with the man? You all have had dinner with him? You hang out with him and play Madden?

I would hope someone’s ability to make it to the Hall of Fame isn’t based on how many people think you are a great guy in your personal life. [/quote]

Actually I think most sportwriters would agree; These same guys who have hated on Bonds for 15 years, voted him to a record 7 MVPs. I do believe they will vote him into the hall of fame as well, because most believe Barry was a hall of fame talent before '98 the date which is believed to be when he started juicing.

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:
I just dislike Bonds.

Which should be irrelevant. How many people who “hate Bonds” have had a conversation with the man? You all have had dinner with him? You hang out with him and play Madden?

I would hope someone’s ability to make it to the Hall of Fame isn’t based on how many people think you are a great guy in your personal life. I have a feeling there are tons of pure ass holes who know how to work the media and most here would truly dislike them if they knew them personally.

But hey, since they know when to smile for the camera and when to sign autographs, everyone is in love with them.[/quote]

Best post so far.

Ty Cobb was a complete and total asshole. But he is held in the highest of regards of any true baseball person. I highly doubt you would catch him kissing babies at the local orphanage on his off days.

Who the fuck should care what kind of person Bonds is, or isn’t? Money talks and bullshit walks.

I personally respect the guys that aren’t in it for the recognition over those that think that signing autographs and kissing babies make them a better player.

Like him, or not - Bonds is a player the likes of whom we will not see for a long while.

And I am whiter than the underside of a fish’s belly.

25

[quote]malonetd wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:
Btw, I dont believe Bonds was the best of his time. I think Ken Griffey Jr was a better overall player NATURALLY.

I think that’s part of the problem with this whole issue. How do you know Griffey is/was natural?[/quote]

I was watching Baseball Tonight on ESPN a couple of years ago, and they were talking about big homerun hitters who are not speculated of steroid use (Jr., A-Rod, Thome, Big Hurt, etc.). They said all these guys are clean, and at the time, Junior had taken over 200 drug tests and not failed a single one.

I feel it’s unfair to assume he’s taking any steroids, and I don’t think he has taken them or is currently taking them, as well as the other guys mentioned. All of those guys have been hitting a lot of homeruns since they started in the majors, and I don’t think steroids has anything to do with it.

On a side note: If Junior would have stayed healthy the past few seasons (he’s missed about 500 games (over 3 full seasons)), him and Bonds would probably be neck and neck for the homerun crown.

26

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:

Ty Cobb was a complete and total asshole. But he is held in the highest of regards of any true baseball person.
[/quote]

Agree 100%. Even though not a lot of people liked him, he was one of the initial five players to be elected into the Hall of Fame. Supposedly, he received more votes and was held in higher regard than Babe Ruth, another original member of the HOF, because of his no-nonsense ability and going in and getting the job done on the field.

27

I love baseball and follow it religiously.I remember a skinny Bond winning MVPs in the early 90’s jacking 30 or so homers.The guy was a HOF’er before he got REALLY big(compared to how skinny he was in the 90’s)In my mind,there is no doubt he jucied,just like a lot of his peers.

His homer run pace after age 35 was in part due to steriod use.While he was talented enough to win MVP’s without them,in no way would’ve he hit 73 of em in 01 without the raw strength he gained from a few vitiamn S.

He he to blame,yes.Is MLB and Selig even more to blame for this steriod homer happy era that many players took a part of?A big fat YES.While Bond did get some help in the power department from Roids,he would’ve been a HOF’er without them,just not the all-time homerun champ.

But neither would’ve McGuire or Sammy,and Canseco even admitted he wouldn’t even have a baseball career without jucing.Homeruns in baseball aren’t sacred anymore anyways,within the next 2 decades of the homerun era,Bonds will probably be 4th or 5th by then anyways.

Homeruns are so commonplace now,there the same as a dunk in the NBA,after years of them being in your face,there not as magical as they once were.Sorry for the long post.

28

[quote]BF Bullpup wrote:

Bud Selig should be there, absolutely no question. I agree that it would be nice if Hank Aaron was there too. Aaron will lose a lot of money and fame because of Bonds so understandably he’s being a baby about it.[/quote]

Dude,Aaron has every right not to be there.He isn’t being a baby about it,maybe he just doesn’t want someone breaking his record who’s accused of cheating.Aaron had many death threats and rasist hecklers and being segregated from his teammates(earlier in his carrer) in his pursuit of breaking “white” Ruths record.

If he doesn’t want to attend Bonds breaking of his record,I’d say he gets a pass from having to do it without being called a baby.

29

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:
Btw, I dont believe Bonds was the best of his time. I think Ken Griffey Jr was a better overall player NATURALLY.

I think that’s part of the problem with this whole issue. How do you know Griffey is/was natural?

I was watching Baseball Tonight on ESPN a couple of years ago, and they were talking about big homerun hitters who are not speculated of steroid use (Jr., A-Rod, Thome, Big Hurt, etc.). They said all these guys are clean, and at the time, Junior had taken over 200 drug tests and not failed a single one.

I feel it’s unfair to assume he’s taking any steroids, and I don’t think he has taken them or is currently taking them, as well as the other guys mentioned. All of those guys have been hitting a lot of homeruns since they started in the majors, and I don’t think steroids has anything to do with it.

On a side note: If Junior would have stayed healthy the past few seasons (he’s missed about 500 games (over 3 full seasons)), him and Bonds would probably be neck and neck for the homerun crown.[/quote]

Bonds has never tested positive… I think it is unfair to assume they are NOT when Bonds has when he has NOT tested positive… (yes their is just about everything BUT a positive drug test but in this country you are innocent untell proven guilty.)

I do not think Griffey Jr is juiced up but the double standard stems from the MEDIA portraying Bonds as evil and all juiced up. If it is shoved in peoples faces enough they will go along with it.

Hell look at what is happening to A-Rod after the media decided they didn’t like him a couple months ago.

Also on the point of hitting lots of homeruns since they got to the bigs.

Mark McGwire hit 49 homesruns his rookie season.

just my thoughts on it T$

30

Let me preface by saying, I am a San Francisco native. I love baseball, particularly the Giants, but I love the game. I think Bonds gets a bad shake mostly, people just love to hate him. That’s what happens when you’re excellent.

Hank Aaron says he won’t be there when his record gets shattered, he was quoted as saying something to the degree of ‘I’m not gonna be there to see somebody hit a home run’. Like it was just any homer on any given day. He’s bitter yeah, and I can’t say I blame him…but really, I think a bit of integrity is in order.

The whole steroid issue can kiss my lily white ass. Although really its a nice shade of mocha these days. ;o)

I’m a Giants fan until the end. I got nothing bad to say… other than fuck the dodgers.

31

When you have players like…

Mike Schmidt
Tom Glavin
Greg Maddox
John Smoltz

and sports personalities like…

Peter Gammons
Joe Morgan

have no problems with Bonds breaking the record and being inducted into the hall, you know other people are just being “politically correct” or are using their hatred for a man to control their minds.

When Peter Gammons says we should embrace Bonds’ record, the world should stop and say “Like WHOA!”

Also, as that nob Rainjack pointed out, Ty Scumbag Cobb is in the hall and is held as one of the greats in baseball history. He is also know as a rabid racists in sports history. One of his most famous quotes had to deal with Babe Ruth “I ain’t rooming with no nigger!” That was when there was “controversy” about Ruth being more “cultural” than what Cobb wanted.

Yet, he’s in the hall and MLB doesn’t even bat an eye at him. It’s nice to know that no matter what you do to a human, it’s OK with baseball just as long as you don’t hit a little white baseball too far too often. God knows how many lynchings Ty Cobb attended…Ya know, that was the thing back then.

Or how about MLB’s alcoholic and pain killer addicted golden boy, Mickey Mantle. Drunk for 20 years of his career and addicted for pain killers for roughly the same time. Caused his family to become alcoholics because of his lifestyle. A prime citizen they have there.

32

I like Bonds. He’s awesome. Juice? Who cares. Raffy tested positive and isn’t anywhere near the player Bonds is. Go get 'em, Barry.

33

[quote]Professor X wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:
I just dislike Bonds.

But hey, since they know when to smile for the camera and when to sign autographs, everyone is in love with them.[/quote]

Hillary Clinton would make one fine baseball player in that case - imagine her on steroids though with her charming personality…yikes!!!

34

A few points to add

Barry had already won more MVP’s than anyone in history before he blew up

Barry is far better than Griffey Jr. Staying healthy is part of the game.

He does get a bad rap. I agree with ProfX. How many people who hate him have spent any time with him?

He should go down as the best all around player of all time. How many people hit for average, power, have over 500 stolen bases, 7 golden gloves.

Finally, to be even considered mentioning as the best ever requires a certain level of dedication and commitment to your craft. How many of us internet browsers, or even ESPN analysts had what it takes to be even cconsidered in the debate as the best ever in their field? ZERO.

Hank Aaron doesnt even enter the discussion of greatest of all time. None of us can, or will, know the sacrifices which are made in an effort to be known as the best ever.

35

I’m confused as to what debate is going on in this thread.

Barry Bonds is an amazing player and one could argue that he is the best ever. Unless Selig decides to ban him, he will definitely be in the Hall of Fame.

As far as him being an asshole, well, he is, but that doesn’t affect his place in baseball history. It just affects how festive and well-received his record-breaking moments will be. Like someone else said, the writers think he’s an asshole, too, but they still voted him MVP.

Because he’s such a jackass, fans look for more reasons to dislike him and cling to it, hence the steroid issue. If he was a little more people friendly like Sosa and McGwire were, maybe we could be re-living 1998. Instead no one cares. No one doubts his greatness, but no one cares.

36

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’m confused as to what debate is going on in this thread.

Barry Bonds is an amazing player and one could argue that he is the best ever. Unless Selig decides to ban him, he will definitely be in the Hall of Fame.

As far as him being an asshole, well, he is, but that doesn’t affect his place in baseball history. It just affects how festive and well-received his record-breaking moments will be. Like someone else said, the writers think he’s an asshole, too, but they still voted him MVP.

Because he’s such a jackass, fans look for more reasons to dislike him and cling to it, hence the steroid issue. If he was a little more people friendly like Sosa and McGwire were, maybe we could be re-living 1998. Instead no one cares. No one doubts his greatness, but no one cares.[/quote]

Good summary.

37

Regarding hating a sports figure,

I said I “hated” many sports figures as a kid
(Bonds included)

Having a little more life experince now I realize how childish it is for a grown man to say he hates another man that he has never meet.

38

[quote]Kalle wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
KJ Bridgewater wrote:

Bonds has never tested positive… I think it is unfair to assume they are NOT when Bonds has when he has NOT tested positive… (yes their is just about everything BUT a positive drug test but in this country you are innocent untell proven guilty.)

I do not think Griffey Jr is juiced up but the double standard stems from the MEDIA portraying Bonds as evil and all juiced up. If it is shoved in peoples faces enough they will go along with it.

Hell look at what is happening to A-Rod after the media decided they didn’t like him a couple months ago.

Also on the point of hitting lots of homeruns since they got to the bigs.

Mark McGwire hit 49 homesruns his rookie season.

just my thoughts on it T$[/quote]

Good post Kalle. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until something happens, and like you said, innocent until proven guilty. We may never know the truth.

39

the hypocrisy of this cheating idea is one that bugs me in particular…

bonds has never tested positive and has always been within the rules.

people on the hate bonds bandwagon are willing to throw out the principle idea of our justice system, are willing to convict him without proof, in order to hate him…and that’s a pretty fucked up system of values.

likewise bonds haters seek to inject their own opinions into a game which they have no stake in ; a game in which they are merely spectators. again willing to trade valued principles -representation and trial by jury of one’s peers - to indulge their own whims. what do bond’s peers, you know people who actually play the game, say ? fucked-up indeed when you say you love baseball but care more about dead numbers than live action.

there was a little-leaguer in an SI story last month who was quoted saying bonds should have all of his records completely erased and it would be like he never existed. that is one fucked-up little xenophobe to be thinking that way, and that is one fucked-up reporter to quote him in SI, making him the idol of little-leaguers everywhere who will also be stained by his megalomaniacal fantasies of being able to erase a person’s existence to suit individual preference.

the hoopla against bonds really broke with the Williams and Fairanu-Wada soap-opera book, the juicy information of which was gained by illegal methods and the writers were sentenced to 18 months prison, making them proven cheaters. pretty fucked-up when you can’t hold ourself to the same standards you expect from others. shouldn’t their book, and everything else they’ve ever written, also be erased from existence ?

40

I don’t get it…

Some of the most “beloved” Dugouts in History were full of guys doing uppers, drinking like Sailors, humping everything with 2 legs that was at least partially warm, and had ideas on race and women that would make a Grand Dragon blush.

And this guys is reviled for doing something never proven that he did; and even if he did, is a substance that does not account for all he has accomplished?

Where is the balance in all this?

THIS is why I hate hypocrisy and demagoguery…

Mufasa