T Nation

Baroni on Pride Fighters, the Cage and Drugs


#1

Interesting take on Pride fighters transitioning to the UFC:

What do you guys think?


#2

He is still over there? maybe i'll pay him a visit someday at thailand, when is his next fight?


#3

no idea on both counts, but he does have a multi-fight deal with the UFC.
Hope he wins his next fight. Baroni is one of those guys that just win you over with his heart. There are times, like in the Amir fight, when its practically the only thing keeping him from a TKO. But hey, he isn't 40 yet, and has a couple of more years to make a bigger impression. WAR.


#4

the redneck pride phil baroni he's the coolest brawler in mma


#5

Baroni said on his twitter he wants a fight in 3 months.


#6

I'll be cheering for him, he is a charismatic dude


#7

I think he has a very good point. The boring wrestlers would not have gotten away with that shit in Pride. GSP, Couture, Fitch, Shields, Velasquez etc would have been stood up, moved to the middle of the ring. And if they resumed lay and pray, they would get yellow carded.


#8

Cain? right...
I don't quite agree with the explanation, sounds like it has a couple of holes. For one, each fight started with a 10min round, so you'd think energy conservation would be key. Secondly, fights in Pride, for instance, weren't that much more action packed than UFC fights. The inclusion of leg strikes to the head made for more 'exciting' bouts, as did the exclusion of elbows, but it wasn't like every fight was the ring equivalent of Griffin-BonnarI.

I always thought the Pride fighter crossover phenomena was a combination of bad circumstance (Shogun getting a surgery, having shitty cardio for two fights), bad preparation for the cage and rule changes, and that the fighters in Pride just weren't as good as all the hype made them out to be. Back in the day, with the isolation of Pride and the UFC, MMA math was rampant. Liddell would lose to both Wand and Shogun, as well as Saku because of that loss to Page.


#9

Eh...just my opinion but I think he is full of shit. Yeah Wand lost because of no more yellow cards...it had nothing to do with Pride feeding him a bunch of cans for 4 years. Or the cage, new rules, new fighters, new venues, and general lack of preparation for the new organization. Don't get me wrong I think a lot of blankets should be stood up but he is seeing way too much into the yellow card system.


#10

i dunno.... first off, i think it's cool how honest he is, since most peopel are so afraid of saying what they mean (and not to be confused with people screwing with other dudes).

however, i think the ring vs cage thing is very important, since you can't "cut off the cage." i do agree that many of the UFC fighters are prolly using steroids, but i don't think they're using them nearly as freely as in Pride, which is also a pretty big deal.

i've seen plenty of UFC fights that were far more frenetic than many Pride fights, too...

but hey, he's fought in both organizations, and i havn't!


#11

I don't think steroids was ever the problem. You don't go from have god like cardio to gassing in the first round like Shogun did just because you cycled off and had to tone down the training. Is the muscle loss and strength dip from cycling off that great? I don't recall anyone from Pride who fought in the states looking significantly smaller.

Other than that, yep the cage changes the game a fuck load. Guys like Fitch get a place to maul their opponents, working from your guard becomes more of a liability, guys in top position or back control have to keep in mind the cage wall. Plus, while there is no corner, there is a whole perimeter of fencing to press your opponent into, which again, is VERY different.

Plus, I don't remember Pride having too many amateur wrestlers in the LHW div.


#12

Wow, I've never seen a YouTube video with that many opening advertisements :confused:


#13

It's Thailand! They have to pay their bills somehow


#14

i just watched a bunch of Pride fights, and remebered this old thread...

firstly, Wanderlei is nothing like the fighter he used to be....obviously he's substantially smaller, but he clearly does not have near the power he used to, hence his change in success in the UFC. steroids played a significant role over there, IMO.... (Coleman, Randleman, too...)

the Pride fights are much more like a street brawl...since they can pull off goofy soccer kicks, their overall technique simply doesn't appear that good. i think even thought the UFC is "safer," the fighters really have much better basics... and since they can't get pinned against the cage in Pride, Gn'P is a lot different.

weird, wathcing these old fights...


#15

I think it's about the each group of promoters catering to their fans more than the PRIDE yellow card system.

Japanese fans were a lot more tolerant (respectful even) of slower fights without much action on the ground.

Up until just a handful of years ago, UFC fans would start boo-ing after fighters were on the ground for over 30 seconds. Obviously not something you want if you're a promoter of the UFC.


#16

Thanks for posting the video, it's given me some insight that I didn't have.


#17

another good point..


#18

I just don't get it why don't they use the yellow card system, it would fuck so good those lay'n prayers


#19

I think the term "lay and pray" has gotten just a bit over used. This is mostly from the non grapplers who are not quite, but just about clue-less when it comes to understanding and appreciating good ground fighting.

It seems that for those who love striking watching two guys circle each other in the middle of the octagon without much action for a minute or two is perfectly acceptable. Maybe the ref should stop them and put them on the ground? Because if something even half that boring happens on the ground people who are ignorant of ground fighting scream out, "stand them up". Believe it or not there were even people who were upset over the final round of the Fitch/Penn fight. Even though Fitch didn't let much time pass between punches which were clearly landing. Those who doubt need only check the records for the number of punches thrown and landed by Fitch.

Yes, sometimes there isn't enough action and neither fighter is working and they should be stood up. (as I pointed out this happens in the standing position as well). But the real answer is not to go to any sort of yellow card system. The answer is for some of the mma fan base to actually educate themselves on ground fighting. Either that or shut the hell up, I'll take either one.


#20

+1.. the ground portions are my favorite part of the fights. I do think implementing yellow cards would be an improvement though.. but not for "lay n pray" <-- which isn't technically easy either.

But I think yellow cards would be good for fights like silva vs mia where sivla clearly could have knocked mia out but refused to engage and instead decided to dance around(not saying mia was engaging either.) Feeling each other is one thing.. refusing to fight is another. If there was a penalty in place for that then there would never be a problem.