[quote]PF_88 wrote:
For me is certainly makes my upper back and between the shoulder blades sore, but man do I hate that exercise. I do deads, squats, pullups, military press, all the big lifts, but that is one that I just do not like doing. Having said that I still do it on occasion, but single arm DB rows are what I’ll usually substitute instead, I feel I can keep better form and get a better stretch on my back when I do these in comparison to BO BB rows.[/quote]
[quote]stefan2k wrote:
I did a lot of bend BB rowing but never really felt soreness or pump in the back. Some days ago I tried a row machine and the feeling was great.
In my opinion it’s really not about moving the weight up but squeezing the back really hard.[/quote]
My problem with bent-over rows is twofold: one, I’m worried about form and feel that I can’t maintain it to get the weights up to the point that it’ll make the difference ( I dunno if that’s the perception or the fact - is the weight that I can maintain form enough, or do I need to strengthen the core even more to support form?)
Secondly, it’s the whole squeeze thing - that’s when I feel the most out of the exercise when I can get a ‘squeeze’, but I only feel that when I’m using a row bar standing on the platform, etc…not with a bar itself.
[quote]stefan2k wrote:
I did a lot of bend BB rowing but never really felt soreness or pump in the back. Some days ago I tried a row machine and the feeling was great.
In my opinion it’s really not about moving the weight up but squeezing the back really hard.[/quote]
Lighten your weight stefan, bend so that you pretty vertical like coleman does and row to bottom of sternum… you’ll feel the contraction, pump etc… then slowly raise the weight from that position of form, 2.5kg/5lbs at a time… i had the same problem as you and now i do BB rows every back day, after doing this.
Alright, a newbie question. Are you supposed to be parallel with the ground when doing these or at an angle (around 45 degrees)? I see videos of people doing them both ways, but what are the advantages and disadvantages of using either technique?
I think the emphasis is more lower on traps than higher… but just emphasis, all same muscles worked. This isn’t from a book its from what i know about muscle actions so i may be a little off…
[quote]DanErickson wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
For me is certainly makes my upper back and between the shoulder blades sore, but man do I hate that exercise. I do deads, squats, pullups, military press, all the big lifts, but that is one that I just do not like doing. Having said that I still do it on occasion, but single arm DB rows are what I’ll usually substitute instead, I feel I can keep better form and get a better stretch on my back when I do these in comparison to BO BB rows.
Where on your body are you pulling the bar to?[/quote]
Around my upper abs/sternum level. I also am one of the ones who is usually close to a 90 degree angle.
I think the emphasis is more lower on traps than higher… but just emphasis, all same muscles worked. This isn’t from a book its from what i know about muscle actions so i may be a little off…
Joe[/quote]
Good info Joe,
Do you use pronated or suppinated grip? If both, do you mind explaining the differences in muscles worked?
They kind of suck if you have a longish torso which is my case.
I always got better results out of hammer iso low row style of machine (this has got to be my favorite hammer machine). I also always did 1 very heavy shrug variation on that same machine. This is my version of incline shrugs.
Really hits the same muscles as the bb row without the risk.
I think the emphasis is more lower on traps than higher… but just emphasis, all same muscles worked. This isn’t from a book its from what i know about muscle actions so i may be a little off…
Joe[/quote]
Just wanted to add that both variations also hit the lats.
I caught this thread yesterday, which was back day, so I switched it up. I’ve always done bb-rows, but I took them out and added pullovers and single arm cable rows instead, what a difference! I’ve never actually felt any work in the back during bb-rows, and I’ve tried every variant possible. This morning I’m feeling the change of pace.
[quote]Jeffe wrote:
I caught this thread yesterday, which was back day, so I switched it up. I’ve always done bb-rows, but I took them out and added pullovers and single arm cable rows instead, what a difference! I’ve never actually felt any work in the back during bb-rows, and I’ve tried every variant possible. This morning I’m feeling the change of pace.[/quote]
The many muscles in your back get stimulation from many different angles. There have been occasions that I have added in a different type of HS machine row and woke up with new soreness in an area I usually don’t feel it. The take home message is that you SHOULD hit it from many different angles, not so much that barbell rows alone should be ignored.
I feel that the Barbell Row helped me gain more weight than any other exercise last summer, maybe even more than the Squat.
The Disadvantage of the Barbell Row and the T-Bar Row is obviously the great demand placed on your lower back and even your legs. I’ve found that the best way to work around this is
Better Programming. The weeks I’m Deadlifting are the weeks I’m not doing Barbell or T-Bar Rows. I also try to space Barbell Rows and Heavy Squats far apart OR do Rows after Squats.
Take the advice of the strongest Barbell Rower ever, Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie said he always aimed for around 12 reps on Barbell and T-Bar rows because if he did any less reps than that, he only felt his legs and lower back working.
The Barbell Row isn’t the best full body lift, but consider this: Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler only Squat about every 5 or 7 days. But on back day they’re doing Barbell Rows with about as much weight as they’re squatting and sometimes they’re deadlifting as well.
I find BB rows work just fine for my back, I get plenty of soreness and results from them. I do DB rows from time to time, but I don’t feel they’re as productive. Besides, it’s easier to incrementally add weight to BB rows when you use your own equipment, and don’t have thousands to spend on DBs ranging from 5-150 lbs.
Per “Meltdown Training” protocol, I do them twice per week. On those days it’s Push Press (which I clean the for the first rep of the set), DB Lunge, Dips, BB Bent Over Rows.
I switch up day 1 and day 2 with a shoulder width grip and snatch grip (ie wide), respectively.
When I first added BB rows to my rountine a few years ago, I would ALWAYS have them on back day…whether it be at the start of the session OR at the end with slightly less weight(more fatigued)…and as time on, the weight went up, form got better and I could really FEEL my back work as I rowed. When I began, I did not get this feeling, but over time I did, and will always keep a similar rowing movement in my routine…I now also like incline DB row(lying face down).
[quote]irongutted wrote:
For me, what solved the problem of not feeling the back, is to deload the bar on the ground between reps - AKA pendlay rows.[/quote]