T Nation

Barack '08

With many politicians still in the running for the 2008 Presidential election, there is only 1 candidate who stands far and above all the rest.

This thread is for you to voice your support, your opinions and to create a discussion about the phenomenal Senator from Illinois.

Barack and roll!

…and remember…

Bros before hoes!

He his far from phenomenal. He’s black and that is the only real thing people can say about him.

“White people, pat yourself on the back and vote Barack because he’s black.”

By all accounts he performed very poorly in the most recent debate.

He’s never impressed me. He has limited experience. He has no real record. I don’t know what he stands for. I do know that he is - at his core - very liberal. His voting record reflect that but it is - again - very limited.

I find it strange that when liberal blacks run for anything it’s always a referendum on white-America: “Can they see past prejudice and vote for an African American?” You don’t see the same headlines when conservative blacks run for office. Any ideas why?

And (I know this is a personal issue that I have) I also consider him a weak person simply because he smokes, can’t seem to quit, and lies about having quit. Shouldn’t be a big issue but it bugs me. I consider smokers weak people who have no self-control. But that’s just me.

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
I consider smokers weak people who have no self-control. But that’s just me.[/quote]

You’ve never smoked before. My wife has tried quitting 3 times since we’ve been married. The last time she made it 4 months…and then barbecue season came and she found herself craving cigarettes with her beer. The physiological addiction was gone but not the psychological.

What’s your weakness?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvXz2xaLNMQ

The authentic Barack…

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
I consider smokers weak people who have no self-control. But that’s just me.

You’ve never smoked before. My wife has tried quitting 3 times since we’ve been married. The last time she made it 4 months…and then barbecue season came and she found herself craving cigarettes with her beer. The physiological addiction was gone but not the psychological.

What’s your weakness?[/quote]

Individuals don’t have weaknesses. Individuality doesn’t exist.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
I consider smokers weak people who have no self-control. But that’s just me.

You’ve never smoked before. My wife has tried quitting 3 times since we’ve been married. The last time she made it 4 months…and then barbecue season came and she found herself craving cigarettes with her beer. The physiological addiction was gone but not the psychological.

What’s your weakness?[/quote]

As far as dependencies go, I don’t have a weakness. I drank heavily. Until one day I decided that I’d had enough of that lifstyle. Announced I was done, put down my beer. Friends laughed at me. That was 12 years ago. Haven’t had a drop since.

You are correct. I’ve never smoked. Never saw the attraction. And I prefaced my stance by saying that I know that this is an issue that I have. Probably because my ex-girlfriend smoked. And she was a slut.

Wait! Maybe that’s my weakness. Sluts. Could be. I like porn. Shit. Maybe porn’s a weakness? Oh, man. I have to re-examine this whole deal.

My issues with smokers is - primarily - that they ever started. When was that a GOOD idea? And what’s a good reason for allowing yourself to begin? Give me a reason for starting that does not point some type of weakness.

Second, once you start…it’s probably a good idea to quit. Since it’s kills you, stinks, is expensive, on and on. And if you STILL do it…well…I…PERSONALLY…just have a tough time thinking, “Hey! This is a really bright and in-control guy who I want to lead me into a brighter future!”

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
He his far from phenomenal. He’s black and that is the only real thing people can say about him.

“White people, pat yourself on the back and vote Barack because he’s black.”[/quote]

He is black? He looks whiter than I do!

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
My issues with smokers is - primarily - that they ever started. When was that a GOOD idea? And what’s a good reason for allowing yourself to begin? Give me a reason for starting that does not point some type of weakness.
[/quote]

Yes, I agree. I cannot stand cigarette smoke; however, most smokers start when they are in their early teens because their parents smoked–as was my wife’s case, as was her father’s and mother’s, as was her grandparents’. I can tell you this…the chain of addiction stops with her.

While having parents that smoke is not a good reason to begin it often is the only reason.

Ok, I am done talking about smokers because I don’t want to get off topic from this thread.

I’d like to get race out of the way first.

With me, backing Barack has nothing to do with race. Would it be nice to see someone who represents the diversity in our homeland? Yes. Is that the determining factor? Definitely not.

Furthermore, Barack isn’t “black” as some of you would like to typecast him as. His father was Kenyan, his mother from Kansas, and he has ties in his maternal family history to native Americans and even to Jefferson Davis.

When I look at the issues, Barack is closest to what I’d stand for…plain and simple. Either it be his stance on the war, economy, social security, education, environment etc…his views reflect the views that I, personally, tend to stand for.

The smoking thing doesn’t bother me. Truth is, it doesn’t matter. If something like that makes you determine where your vote goes, then that’s a shame.

For the record- I’m a white, 24-yr old irishman, who at 18 registered Republican (grew up in a conservative Irish-catholic town and knew nothing else)…studied Political Science in college at a fine Poly Sci school in the northeast(I focused on International Relations)…half-way through my college education got fed up with BOTH parties, and am now independent. I do tend to lean left.

None of that really matters, just wanted you guys to know where this Barack supporter is coming from. I’m not a minority, not from the city, not a neo-fascist, not a born diehard anti-GOP guy…

-JDogg

[quote]Johndogg wrote:
I’d like to get race out of the way first.

With me, backing Barack has nothing to do with race. Would it be nice to see someone who represents the diversity in our homeland? Yes. Is that the determining factor? Definitely not.

Furthermore, Barack isn’t “black” as some of you would like to typecast him as. His father was Kenyan, his mother from Kansas, and he has ties in his maternal family history to native Americans and even to Jefferson Davis.

When I look at the issues, Barack is closest to what I’d stand for…plain and simple. Either it be his stance on the war, economy, social security, education, environment etc…his views reflect the views that I, personally, tend to stand for.

The smoking thing doesn’t bother me. Truth is, it doesn’t matter. If something like that makes you determine where your vote goes, then that’s a shame.

For the record- I’m a white, 24-yr old irishman, who at 18 registered Republican (grew up in a conservative Irish-catholic town and knew nothing else)…studied Political Science in college at a fine Poly Sci school in the northeast(I focused on International Relations)…half-way through my college education got fed up with BOTH parties, and am now independent. I do tend to lean left.

None of that really matters, just wanted you guys to know where this Barack supporter is coming from. I’m not a minority, not from the city, not a neo-fascist, not a born diehard anti-GOP guy…

-JDogg

[/quote]

Well, JDogg…Tell us what his stance is on those issues (excluding the Iraq war - He’s a Democrat so we know he wants to run away and hide, hope everyone will be nice to us and like us).

I read his heathcare proposal and it made NO sense at all. Let’s see: Everyone will have insurance and those who already have insurance will pay less AND you are going to do away with the ‘pre-existing condition’ exclusion, so everyone will have it, insurance companies will pay MORE for medical costs…and we will all pay LESS?

Nonsense.

Oh, and if you are an Irishman how can you vote in the U.S. election?

Maybe those who want to learn the positions of any candidate should go out of their way to go and read up on those candidates… instead of waiting for the news network to skewer them in presentation instead?

I don’t know, given the technology of today, it’s possible they might have their own web sites, where they can position themselves and not have their stances presented out of context.

There are also going to be a few debates this year… which if watched live might provide some information. Again, getting the soundbites after is not the way to get to know the candidates.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
I consider smokers weak people who have no self-control. But that’s just me.

You’ve never smoked before. My wife has tried quitting 3 times since we’ve been married. The last time she made it 4 months…and then barbecue season came and she found herself craving cigarettes with her beer. The physiological addiction was gone but not the psychological.

What’s your weakness?[/quote]

I quit over a year and half ago. I can attest it is very damn difficult. It’s the hardest thing to do and maintain. I still look at cigarettes with lust at the store, knowing with just one puff I’ll be buying packs.

Smokers are just people. When I smoked I could still lift more and out run most non-smokers. Some non-smokers, especially former smokers can be so hypocritical and judgmental at times it makes me want to smoke, just to piss them off and prove them wrong.

That very motivation probably kept me smoking longer than I should have. Still my best max lifts came when I was a smoker. I was at my leanest as a smoker.

Smoking is not a weakness; it’s a habit; and a damn enjoyable one. I smoked because I liked it. I like everything except the price. When I was ready to quit, I did. Don’t judge others by there habits, judge them by there actions. You are electing these people to do a job, not based on what they do in there personal time that is with in the laws they swear to uphold and be bound by.

I am going to probably vote for him, or who ever is the most viable candidate in the democratic primaries just to do my part to keep the hida-beast from fulfilling her power lust.

Obama has joined on to the Fair Pay Act, the only presidential candidate to do so.

A long piece on Fortune, so I will just add the link:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/04/magazines/fortune/muphy_payact.fortune/index.htm?cnn=yes

The Act basically assumes any pay differential between “similar” jobs is a phenomenon of gender discrimination and that a federal agency should unilaterally correct the differential. The government would essentially decide the worth of a job and direct an employer to pay it.

Bold move by Obama - and ultimately, a bad one.

At his best, he is intelligent, well spoken, considerate and earnestly trying to figure out how to best serve this country.

One thing that I respect about his position is that he has called on Americans to take responsibility for the people they elect and the government they endorse. It shouldn’t seem radical, but, these days, more than ever, we live in a society where things are taken for granted and no one wants to take the rap for anything that goes wrong.

It is refreshing to see someone be critical about that and recognize the truth that, as an elected official his power only extends so far, that the people need to be get involved for the country to progress.

Which is the other thing I like about him. He seems to be far more interested in taking care of America and less interested in taking care of the middle east. I still don’t understand how we could willingly invest so much time and resources to fixing someone else’s problem when our own shit isn’t all that together.

Also, Barack was not born rich, with everything taken care of for him. He wasn’t groomed into the position he is in. He worked very hard to get to where he is, He has owned up for his successes and his failures.

He has seen, first hand, some of the worst this country has to offer and some of the best. He is a responsible, hard working American citizen, something we haven’t seen in the White House for much too long.

That being said, he takes his time with problems. He thinks about them, and he tries to elect the best position that can appease the most amount of people. This is a trait that the masses rarely perceive as a strength.

More often than not, they see it as being indecisive or weak. I think it is a good thing that he uses his brain as opposed to some delusions of talking to god. But, that doesn’t change the fact that people have less confidence in ‘thinkers’.

We don’t like seeing people think, we like seeing people do.

Additionally, he is an idealist. That is a dangerous combination, a thinking idealist. While Barack has had a first-hand look into poverty, gang violence, poor educational systems, racism and class division… He also seems to harbor the notion that some of these things can be magically fixed if we just think about them hard enough.

So, for the most part, I support him. If for no other reason than the fact that he is motivating a large number of otherwise apathetic voters, and his message of personal responsibility in the electoral process is something that needs to be said, and that people need to hear.

Hello all!

Glad to see this thread has people taking all different angles. Gotta love it.

In response to the one dude- I’m an Irish-American…born and raised in N.Y…I guess the “irishman” term was misleading.

On to the issues…here’s a “reader’s digest version” of Barack’s stances:

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Obama has fought to strengthen America’s position in the world. Reaching across the aisle, Obama has tackled problems such as preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction and stopping the genocide in Darfur.

Plan to End the Iraq War

Before the war in Iraq ever started, Senator Obama said that it was wrong in its conception. In 2002, then Illinois State Senator Obama said Saddam Hussein posed no imminent threat to the United States and that invasion would lead to an occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

Since then, Senator Obama has laid out a plan on the way forward in Iraq that has largely been affirmed by the bipartisan Iraq Study Group led by James Baker and Lee Hamilton.

Creating a Healthcare System that Works

The United States is one of the wealthiest nations in the world, yet more than 46 million Americans have no health insurance. Too many hard-working Americans cannot afford their medical bills, and health-related issues are the number one cause for personal bankruptcy. Promoting affordable, accessible, and high-quality health care is a priority for Senator Obama.

Energy and the Environment

Senator Obama has been a leader in the Senate in pushing for a comprehensive national energy policy and has introduced a number of bills to get us closer to the goal of energy independence. By putting aside partisan battles, he has found common ground on CAFE, renewable fuels, and clean coal.

Improving Our Schools

We are failing too many of our children in public schools. Right now, six million middle and high school students read at levels significantly below their grade level. Unfortunately, the debate in Washington has been narrowed: either we need to pour more money into the system, or we need to reform it with more tests and standards.

Senator Obama has worked on bills that cut through this false choice and recognize that good schools will require both structural reform and resources.

Protecting Our Homeland

Five years after 9/11, our country is still unprepared for a terrorist attack. From improving security for our transit systems and chemical plants, to increasing cargo screening in our airports and seaports, the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission have been underfunded and ignored.

The 9/11 Commission gave the government five F’s and 12 D’s on the implementation of its recommendations. Senator Obama is a member of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee and has supported efforts to base homeland security spending on risk rather than pork-barrel politics. He has also introduced legislation to strengthen chemical plant and drinking water security and to enhance disaster preparedness.

Immigration and the Border

Barack Obama believes the immigration issue has been exploited by politicians to divide the nation rather than find real solutions. This divisiveness has allowed the illegal immigration problem to worsen, with borders that are less secure than ever and an economy that depends on millions of workers living in the shadows.

Protecting the Right to Vote

There is no more fundamental American right than the right to vote. Before the landmark 1965 Voting Rights Act, barriers such as literacy tests, poll taxes and property requirements disenfranchised many Americans, especially minorities. More than 40 years later, there are still numerous obstacles to ensuring that every citizen has the ability to vote.

Honoring Our Veterans

As a member of the Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee, Senator Obama is committed to helping the heroes who defend our nation today and the veterans who fought in years past. A grandson of a World War II veteran who went to college on the G.I. Bill, Senator Obama has reached out to Republicans and Democrats in order to honor our commitment to America’s veterans.

Cleaning Up Washington’s Culture of Corruption

Throughout his political career, Barack Obama has been a leader in fighting for open and honest government. As a U.S. Senator, he has spearheaded the effort to clean up Washington in the wake of the Jack Abramoff scandal.

In a politically charged election year, Obama acknowledged that corruption was a problem that plagued both political parties. He subsequently enlisted the help of Republican allies to limit lobbyist influence, shine sunlight into the earmarks process and promote open government.

Strengthening Families and Communities

Strong families raise successful children and keep communities together. While Senator Obama does not believe that we can simply legislate healthy families, good parenting skills or economic success, he does believe we can eliminate roadblocks that parents face and provide tools to help them succeed. A husband and father of two, Senator Obama has promoted strong families in the Senate.

Reconciling Faith and Politics

In June of 2006, Senator Obama delivered what was called the most important speech on religion and politics in 40 years. Speaking before an evangelical audience, Senator Obama candidly discussed his own religious conversion and doubts, and the need for a deeper, more substantive discussion about the role of faith in American life.

-JDogg (most of this was directly from BarackObama.com)

I know polls at this point are a bit useless, but it’s interesting nonetheless.

"THE BUZZ | Poll has Obama edging Clinton

Poll dancing

A USA Today/Gallup Poll of registered voters nationwide has Barack Obama edging Hillary Clinton 30 percent to 29 percent among Democrats, followed by Al Gore at 17 percent. The poll also has Rudy Giuliani leading Republicans with 32 percent, followed by John McCain at 19 percent, Mitt Romney at 12 percent and Fred Thompson at 11 percent.

It has Giuliani leading Clinton 52 percent to 45 percent in a head-to-head match-up."

-JDogg

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