When doing highbar squatting(and I have been highbar squatting since I was 17 up until recently and i am 22 now), I almost always turn it into a good morning as it gets tough. It is much easier, from my experience which isn’t much, to keep a lowbar squat a squat, and I can get max lifts without making them into good mornings.
Again, I don’t understand how you can do this and not have the bar on your neck unless you basically have negligible trap mass.
Perhaps when fatigued but that speaks more to your body type and likely your technique than it does the bar position.
I don’t know of anybody who does not exibit a more upright body position when high bar squatting.
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Maybe it is on my neck and I just dont realize it, or I was squatting with a lower highbar position. I could of put it up a little higher, but that sets it right on my cervical spine(or something uncomfortable) and I dont squat that way, it seems dumb. Even in a highbar position I have the bar set on my traps so it is a good inch or so from touching my neck. In the Low-bar it is a lot further away, like maybe 4 inches, someone would have to measure it is hard to say, looking in a mirror with a broom on my back.
I just measured my neck and it is a little over 18" and I flexed it to about 20" about half way up, so maybe it just is well built to hold 400 pounds in a good morning.
I am also not really “built to squat” my legs are long and my torso is short, and that could have something to do with it.
But I have just got to say that you never put the bar on your neck, even in a high-bar squat.
On a high bar squat the bar rests on your traps.
On a low bar squat the bar rests on the top of your rear delts and also on your traps.
No shit. Thanks for defining something that did not warrant it.
Now, go to the gym, place the bar in a high bar position, do a full GM and report back what happens.
This shouldn’t be a difficult concept to grapse.
Ive done highbar good mornings before(even intentionally) and didnt break my neck. My neck didnt even get any undue fatigue. I dont know, but I always thought highbar goes on the traps, not the neck.
Well, when I set a bar on the top of my traps it is pretty much on what little neck I have. Perhaps we are built differently. If I attemted to do a good morning with this same bar position I would end up probably having to throw it over my head.
Still not understanding why this is such a difficult concept to grasp unless you are just trying to be a smart-ass.
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When i do a highbar goodmorning it is resting on trap mass both when I am standing and bending over, anyways, high bar style, the bar is about halfway up my traps between my delts and neck. Low bar it is right on my delts and lower traps or whatever is between my shoulderblades.
When i do a highbar goodmorning it is resting on trap mass both when I am standing and bending over, anyways, high bar style, the bar is about halfway up my traps between my delts and neck. Low bar it is right on my delts and lower traps or whatever is between my shoulderblades.
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That makes sense, then. If you have ever watched Gillingham’s DVD you will see the bar position I am talking about. That’s the way I learned how to do it and it probably is higher than you are describing. I just did them yesterday and I have soreness and bruising across the tops of my traps pretty much in line with the more prominent neck vertebra.
I just measured my neck and it is a little over 18" and I flexed it to about 20" about half way up, so maybe it just is well built to hold 400 pounds in a good morning.
I am also not really “built to squat” my legs are long and my torso is short, and that could have something to do with it.
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Size of your neck has nothing to do with it. If the bar is on your vertebrae you’re fucked regardless of neck size.
I am willing to bet all my earthly possessions you could not do a full range of motion GM with 400#'s resting on your neck.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
ukrainian wrote:
And I will stay in more of the Olympic stance because when I got out to wide, I find it harder to keep my knees from coming in. Don’t know why though.
Sounds like a Glute weakness. Or maybe body positioning. Don’t be afraid to point your toes out at an angle when you’re squatting wide.
Your knees move to where they’re strongest. Very broadly speaking, if your knees are drifting in its because your body’s going for it’s strongest muscle, ie the quads. Concentrate on forcing them out. If that doesn’t work, take your stance in a bit.[/quote]
For a lot of people, weak hamstrings will cause the knees to come in while using a wider stance. I like to do very wide good mornings and pull through type
exercises to build up the hamstrings.
For a lot of people, weak hamstrings will cause the knees to come in while using a wider stance. I like to do very wide good mornings and pull through type
exercises to build up the hamstrings.
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Out of Curiosity, how much knee bend do you use? A little or do you try to straight leg it? I’ve tried Squatting Pull-Throughs to strengthen my power off the floor in the Deadlift (conventional) but it’s hard to use heavy weight on the Pull Through.
[quote]JoeRockHead wrote:
Hanley wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
ukrainian wrote:
And I will stay in more of the Olympic stance because when I got out to wide, I find it harder to keep my knees from coming in. Don’t know why though.
Sounds like a Glute weakness. Or maybe body positioning. Don’t be afraid to point your toes out at an angle when you’re squatting wide.
Your knees move to where they’re strongest. Very broadly speaking, if your knees are drifting in its because your body’s going for it’s strongest muscle, ie the quads. Concentrate on forcing them out. If that doesn’t work, take your stance in a bit.
For a lot of people, weak hamstrings will cause the knees to come in while using a wider stance. I like to do very wide good mornings and pull through type
exercises to build up the hamstrings.
[/quote]
Alright. I will make sure to strengthen my hamstrings. But most of the work will have to be done on my own as the football program that I have to follow (or the coaches will hate me although I still disagree with a lot of what is on the program) does not have sufficient hamstring work or lower back work. The only HS and LB work is power cleans.
I’m proficient at full high bar squats and most of my focus is on olympic lifting, but I do plan on doing powerlifting competitions. I’ve been considering including a “powerlifting” squat in my program to strengthen my hamstrings and hips but don’t really know where to start and don’t have much experience with low-bar squats- right now I just do pulls and RDLs.
Do you think I should incorporate them in my training, and if so what type of squat stance and depth would you recommend for me? Your advice is very much appreciated!
[quote]ninearms wrote:
You know, feet jammed against the uprights, just above parallel, suited and wrapped to buggery, how all powerlifters do them.;)[/quote]
[quote]Hanley wrote:
ninearms wrote:
You know, feet jammed against the uprights, just above parallel, suited and wrapped to buggery, how all powerlifters do them.
Oh yeah… silly me. Lol!!! ;)[/quote]
I put in abbreviations, you know what I meant. A squat where I use a low bar position and at least a slightly wider stance than narrow stance olympic squats and focus on sitting back into the squat and moving greater poundage w/more emphasis on the posterior chain. I’m aware of the whole IPA vs powerlifting stereotypes situation but I think it’s pretty obvious what I mean when I say “low bar squat” and “powerlifting squat” after indicating I do narrow stance high bar full squats, so don’t BS me
It’s not like I said “should I wear chucks and and do equipped squats to parallel with the bar on the middle of my back?” , I did ask what stance was recommended for my particular situation!
anyway, if it makes you feel better you can just go ahead and assume I said "some variation of low-bar squatting " instead and I would appreciate if someone just answered the damn question =P
You should do them with your feet jammed against the uprights. Make sure you sit back.
I think there’s a thing over on Rippetoe’s forum, and a thread over on FI about the application of low bar squats for weightlifters. Rippetoe doesn’t even think weightlifters should squat high bar at all because it’s too similar to the front squat and doesn’t provide enough glute/ham/lower back stimulation which he thinks WLers already lack. I’m not convinced though.
[quote]ninearms wrote:
You should do them with your feet jammed against the uprights. Make sure you sit back.
I think there’s a thing over on Rippetoe’s forum, and a thread over on FI about the application of low bar squats for weightlifters. Rippetoe doesn’t even think weightlifters should squat high bar at all because it’s too similar to the front squat and doesn’t provide enough glute/ham/lower back stimulation which he thinks WLers already lack. I’m not convinced though.[/quote]
How many WLers has Rippetoe coached?? I know he’s an awesome strength coach, but even the best should acknowledge their limitations.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
ninearms wrote:
You should do them with your feet jammed against the uprights. Make sure you sit back.
I think there’s a thing over on Rippetoe’s forum, and a thread over on FI about the application of low bar squats for weightlifters. Rippetoe doesn’t even think weightlifters should squat high bar at all because it’s too similar to the front squat and doesn’t provide enough glute/ham/lower back stimulation which he thinks WLers already lack. I’m not convinced though.
How many WLers has Rippetoe coached?? I know he’s an awesome strength coach, but even the best should acknowledge their limitations.[/quote]
[quote]robo1 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
ninearms wrote:
You should do them with your feet jammed against the uprights. Make sure you sit back.
I think there’s a thing over on Rippetoe’s forum, and a thread over on FI about the application of low bar squats for weightlifters. Rippetoe doesn’t even think weightlifters should squat high bar at all because it’s too similar to the front squat and doesn’t provide enough glute/ham/lower back stimulation which he thinks WLers already lack. I’m not convinced though.
How many WLers has Rippetoe coached?? I know he’s an awesome strength coach, but even the best should acknowledge their limitations.
He’s pretty much a personal trainer by design hanley, but he runs his own center for USA weightlifting and I believe is also some sort of executive for USA weightlifting as well. I have no idea if he’s ever gotten a lifter to the big dance, but he’s had his hand in the intermediate/advanced level of Oly training for years.
I don’t buy everything he says (especially some of his loony deadlift comments) but when he talks I always try to listen
[quote]ninearms wrote:
You should do them with your feet jammed against the uprights. Make sure you sit back.
I think there’s a thing over on Rippetoe’s forum, and a thread over on FI about the application of low bar squats for weightlifters. Rippetoe doesn’t even think weightlifters should squat high bar at all because it’s too similar to the front squat and doesn’t provide enough glute/ham/lower back stimulation which he thinks WLers already lack. I’m not convinced though.[/quote]
depends on the WL right?
for less experienced weightlifters, the full lifts aren’t as taxing to the CNS and effective as a ME exercise because they aren’t neurologically efficient at the movements due to technique limitations and imbalances in strength, so they aren’t training all of the various muscle groups to their limits even when they lift close to 1RM
but obviously an Olympic caliber lifter doesn’t have that problem and can perform a max attempt in either of the lifts and completely crush their bodies because they are so efficient at the movement and muscle fiber recruitment
so I can see both sides of that argument and imo it is specific to the individual, their strength levels, and their program
which is why I was asking if someone in my specific situation should consider incorporating a different kind of squat, or if high CNS posterior chain assistance work + high bar squats and full lifts would cover all the bases.
fyi I have no idea what Rippetoe’s credentials are as a coach although I’ve obviously heard of him and seems well respected
