Bar Placement for Squats

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
mr popular wrote:
If I took an olympic stance and squatted low-bar, I would find myself doing a very awkward bent-knee-good-morning abortion of an exercise.

A Proper Low-Bar Squat should make it so you do LESS of a Good-Morning when you squat. SSB Squats, Front Squats, High-Bar Squats, and Manta Ray squats are used because they throw you forward and try to force you into a Good-Morning. But if you’re squatting right, and using a low-bar position, then you shouldn’t be thrown forward as much. [/quote]

Ive never seen any examples of this. Even if you look at professionals it is clear that olympic lifters use a highbar squat and stay almost vertical, and then you have powerlifters with a low bar position and a mediumly spaced footing (still nowhere near as narrow as the olympic lifters) and they are leaning forward quite a bit.

Maybe you could find me some examples but I’m just not seeing this…

[quote]mr popular wrote:

Ive never seen any examples of this. [/quote]

You must keep a vertical body position with High-Bar Squats and Front Squats or else you will be thrown forward/dump the bar!

A High Bar Squat lengthens the lever-arm that is your torso. Imagine that the Barbell is the head of a hammer and your body is the handle. If you put the head of the hammer lower on the handle, when you hit a nail you won’t produce as much force as you would have if you put the head of the hammer on the top of the handle.

But this force isn’t used for hammering nails. This force is used to throw your torso down and put you in a good-morning.

Which is easier to balance? The Short Hammer or the Long Hammer?
The Long Hammer requires more effort to balance. The Long Hammer will generate more torque.

Mark Rippetoe’s “Starting Strength” goes into great detail explaining why this very reason makes a Low-Bar squat preferable to a High-Bar squat.

If you need any proof that a High-Bar squat is more likely to cause you to Good-Morning and lose your arch when coming out of the hole, try it yourself the next time you Squat. Or you can try doing Good-Mornings with various bar positions (the high-bar good-morning with 135 will be more difficult than the low-bar with 135).

Do both, get the best of both worlds

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Do both, get the best of both worlds[/quote]

Why would you need High-Bar Squats if you’ve got
Front Squats? There’s not really enough variety between
High and Low Bar squats to warret doing both. It would be like
doing Cross-Armed Front Squats and Clean-Grip Front Squats (Clean-Grip Front Squats are better, so just do those! Same Principle with Low and High Bar Squats!)

[quote]ukrainian wrote:
And I will stay in more of the Olympic stance because when I got out to wide, I find it harder to keep my knees from coming in. Don’t know why though. [/quote]

Sounds like a Glute weakness. Or maybe body positioning. Don’t be afraid to point your toes out at an angle when you’re squatting wide.

Having only skimmed the thread… can I just say JESUS!!!

Who fucking cares what bar placement he uses.

Hey OP, pick one. Train the arse off it for 6-12 weeks. Then use the other one. Sorted.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
ukrainian wrote:
And I will stay in more of the Olympic stance because when I got out to wide, I find it harder to keep my knees from coming in. Don’t know why though.

Sounds like a Glute weakness. Or maybe body positioning. Don’t be afraid to point your toes out at an angle when you’re squatting wide. [/quote]

Your knees move to where they’re strongest. Very broadly speaking, if your knees are drifting in its because your body’s going for it’s strongest muscle, ie the quads. Concentrate on forcing them out. If that doesn’t work, take your stance in a bit.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Having only skimmed the thread… can I just say JESUS!!!

Who fucking cares what bar placement he uses.

Hey OP, pick one. Train the arse off it for 6-12 weeks. Then use the other one. Sorted.[/quote]

I am sorry. I didn’t think people would argue so much on a simple question.

I have been using high bar placement for long enough, which is why I brought up this question.

And yes, to your other post, I do think my quads are stronger than my other leg muscles, which is also another reason I wanted to try out low bar squats.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:

Unless getting big and strong sounds appealing to you.
[/quote]

How’s it working for you?

Because some guy in a far, far away gym wrote an article on the internet about wide squatting doesn’t mean it always holds true. In the context of heavy equipment and whatnot it makes sense, otherwise you’ll just get hurt.

Your internet idols themselves, who squat wide as all hell, have recommended time and time again to take stance in without at least briefs on.

[quote]daraz wrote:
FightingScott wrote:

Unless getting big and strong sounds appealing to you.

How’s it working for you?

Because some guy in a far, far away gym wrote an article on the internet about wide squatting doesn’t mean it always holds true. In the context of heavy equipment and whatnot it makes sense, otherwise you’ll just get hurt.

Your internet idols themselves, who squat wide as all hell, have recommended time and time again to take stance in without at least briefs on.

[/quote]

Maybe we’re talking about 2 different types of wide. To me, a normal stance is just one step out from shoulder width, and a wide stance is what I naturally assume when I squat. It’s hard to even get a super wide stance when you walk your squats out. I think my stance is wide compared to most, and people always ask me “are your feet supposed to be that wide?” when I convince them to try Squatting, but the people who ask that question don’t squat.

I think a good way to describe my stance is, if you were to use the same stance deadlifting, you would be doing a Sumo Deadlift BUT this would be a pretty narrow stance as far as Sumo Deadlifting goes.

By this logic, wouldn’t it stand to reason that you’d be less likely to good morning out of a high bar squat hole than a low bar squat? It seems this would be the case because its more difficult and provides less advantage (when the bar is high) to make that movement in order to complete the lift. Like mr popular mentioned, I haven’t seen any real world examples of high bar squatters have issues doing this as much as I have seen it affect low bar squatters.

[quote]dfreezy wrote:
FightingScott wrote:If you need any proof that a High-Bar squat is more likely to cause you to Good-Morning and lose your arch when coming out of the hole, try it yourself the next time you Squat. Or you can try doing Good-Mornings with various bar positions (the high-bar good-morning with 135 will be more difficult than the low-bar with 135).

By this logic, wouldn’t it stand to reason that you’d be less likely to good morning out of a high bar squat hole than a low bar squat? It seems this would be the case because its more difficult and provides less advantage (when the bar is high) to make that movement in order to complete the lift. Like mr popular mentioned, I haven’t seen any real world examples of high bar squatters have issues doing this as much as I have seen it affect low bar squatters.[/quote]

The post he made makes no sense at all. It demonstrates what I can only define as lack of practical experience.

Additionally, if I were to high bar a GM like I do a squat the bar would be on the back of my neck. That’s why you place the bar further down on your back. Of course it would be more difficult. I would be afraid of breaking my neck.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
mr popular wrote:
They both have benefits. A low-bar placement coupled with a wider stance will allow you to lift more weight.

If it were me I would include BOTH in my training.

Do you really put in your log

“High Bar Squats” and “Low Bar Squats?”

I don’t see the point of ANYONE doing High-Bar Squats if they’ve already got any combination of Front Squats, SSB Squats, or Manta-Ray Squats already in their program.

Just because you use a low-bar position does not automatically mean you need to take a wide stance.

[/quote]

Yep, I do. HB - high bar; MB - Medium bar; LB - Low bar;
do the same with my stance as well.

I give up. Just put the bar wherever you want.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:

But I have just got to say that you never put the bar on your neck, even in a high-bar squat.

On a high bar squat the bar rests on your traps.

On a low bar squat the bar rests on the top of your rear delts and also on your traps.

[/quote]

No shit. Thanks for defining something that did not warrant it.

Now, go to the gym, place the bar in a high bar position, do a full GM and report back what happens.

This shouldn’t be a difficult concept to grapse.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
dfreezy wrote:
FightingScott wrote:If you need any proof that a High-Bar squat is more likely to cause you to Good-Morning and lose your arch when coming out of the hole, try it yourself the next time you Squat. Or you can try doing Good-Mornings with various bar positions (the high-bar good-morning with 135 will be more difficult than the low-bar with 135).

By this logic, wouldn’t it stand to reason that you’d be less likely to good morning out of a high bar squat hole than a low bar squat? It seems this would be the case because its more difficult and provides less advantage (when the bar is high) to make that movement in order to complete the lift.

Like mr popular mentioned, I haven’t seen any real world examples of high bar squatters have issues doing this as much as I have seen it affect low bar squatters.

The post he made makes no sense at all. It demonstrates what I can only define as lack of practical experience.

Additionally, if I were to high bar a GM like I do a squat the bar would be on the back of my neck. That’s why you place the bar further down on your back. Of course it would be more difficult. I would be afraid of breaking my neck.

[/quote]

lol, seriously. Not fun. Make sure you can sit straight down before putting any neck crushing weight in a high bar position =)

[quote]dfreezy wrote:
FightingScott wrote:If you need any proof that a High-Bar squat is more likely to cause you to Good-Morning and lose your arch when coming out of the hole, try it yourself the next time you Squat. Or you can try doing Good-Mornings with various bar positions (the high-bar good-morning with 135 will be more difficult than the low-bar with 135).

By this logic, wouldn’t it stand to reason that you’d be less likely to good morning out of a high bar squat hole than a low bar squat? It seems this would be the case because its more difficult and provides less advantage (when the bar is high) to make that movement in order to complete the lift. Like mr popular mentioned, I haven’t seen any real world examples of high bar squatters have issues doing this as much as I have seen it affect low bar squatters.[/quote]

When doing highbar squatting(and I have been highbar squatting since I was 17 up until recently and i am 22 now), I almost always turn it into a good morning as it gets tough. It is much easier, from my experience which isn’t much, to keep a lowbar squat a squat, and I can get max lifts without making them into good mornings.

Most highbar squatters are weightlifters squatting as an assistance lift, or bodybuilders trying to build quads, so if it turns into a goodmorning they need to lower the weight, because it is not doing what they need it too.

Edit: I forgot jackasses doing quarter squats, but I dont think they count.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
FightingScott wrote:

But I have just got to say that you never put the bar on your neck, even in a high-bar squat.

On a high bar squat the bar rests on your traps.

On a low bar squat the bar rests on the top of your rear delts and also on your traps.

No shit. Thanks for defining something that did not warrant it.

Now, go to the gym, place the bar in a high bar position, do a full GM and report back what happens.

This shouldn’t be a difficult concept to grapse.
[/quote]

Ive done highbar good mornings before(even intentionally) and didnt break my neck. My neck didnt even get any undue fatigue. I dont know, but I always thought highbar goes on the traps, not the neck.

[quote]Scrotus wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
FightingScott wrote:

But I have just got to say that you never put the bar on your neck, even in a high-bar squat.

On a high bar squat the bar rests on your traps.

On a low bar squat the bar rests on the top of your rear delts and also on your traps.

No shit. Thanks for defining something that did not warrant it.

Now, go to the gym, place the bar in a high bar position, do a full GM and report back what happens.

This shouldn’t be a difficult concept to grapse.

Ive done highbar good mornings before(even intentionally) and didnt break my neck. My neck didnt even get any undue fatigue. I dont know, but I always thought highbar goes on the traps, not the neck. [/quote]

Well, when I set a bar on the top of my traps it is pretty much on what little neck I have. Perhaps we are built differently. If I attemted to do a good morning with this same bar position I would end up probably having to throw it over my head.

Still not understanding why this is such a difficult concept to grasp unless you are just trying to be a smart-ass.

[quote]Scrotus wrote:

When doing highbar squatting(and I have been highbar squatting since I was 17 up until recently and i am 22 now), I almost always turn it into a good morning as it gets tough. It is much easier, from my experience which isn’t much, to keep a lowbar squat a squat, and I can get max lifts without making them into good mornings.

[/quote]

Again, I don’t understand how you can do this and not have the bar on your neck unless you basically have negligible trap mass.

Perhaps when fatigued but that speaks more to your body type and likely your technique than it does the bar position.

I don’t know of anybody who does not exibit a more upright body position when high bar squatting.