T Nation

Bar Keeps Floating Away From Me at the Start of Pull


#1

Here are some sets from my deadlift session this week. I keep running into the problem of the bar floating away from my shins at the beginning of the pull.

Think this can be fixed by taking more slack out of the bar and cueing my lats more? Hip positioning?...I'm kinda clueless on how to fix this...

If I can get t past that sticking point, I can always lift the weight. I have a competition coming up (strongman) with a max effort single on a traditional barbell. Any help you guys could provide on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone!


#2

It does look like you’re rolling forward a bit when you pull the slack out of the bar. Is it possible for you to pull the slack out more slowly, so as to avoid that roll?

You might also consider that your head position is well in front of the bar, and your hips are high. Compare your first at 635 (with a roll) to your second (no roll). It’s almost like you don’t get your body into position until the slack is gone, and by that point it’s already rolled out in front.

Caveat: I’m a crappy deadlifter and don’t even lift, bro.


#3

You already nailed it, cue the lats and pull the slack out of the bar. Use the bar to lever yourself into position, that’ll set your lats at the start, and the bar should stick closer to your shins the whole time.


#4

Gotta drop your hips a bit more and get your shoulders a little more behind the bar. I’ve found this hard to do sometimes with a 4 inch belt so just recently switched to a 3 inch belt and I’m able to get myself into a much better position. Either way good pulling.


#5

I can’t give any advice but look at the thread I started yesterday, I have the exact same issue:

start of the pull, bar drifts away. It makes pulling impossible one day, then the same impossible weight, on another day, you can pull for like 5 reps.


#6

That all conventional deadlifts must start with shins at complete vertical and with the bar against them is a gross generalization.

Set up with the bar about 1 - 1.5 inches in front of where you put it now and drift your shins to it, thus you have a bit more knee, ankle flex. This is where your bod actually wants to pull from.

If you mark the center of the left bar end on your monitor (with the cursor perhaps)while watching the pull, have a look at your position and the bar position after you complete the rep and have the bar back on the floor. For rep 2 and at the release after rep 2 you have the bar end (sleeve center) just about an inch (or 2?) forward of where you start your first pull. You look better/stronger pulling from there.

“Most” people will put the bar back down onto the floor, and then readjust knee and ankle angles, into the position from which they should actually pull the first rep. See rep 2 from start to finish and try that position as for your first pull.

By the by, your head position reminds me of the disc I ruptured in my cervical spine a few decades ago.

The above offered most humbly.

By the way, yer an animal.


#7

[quote]emskee wrote:
That all conventional deadlifts must start with shins at complete vertical and with the bar against them is a gross generalization.

Set up with the bar about 1 - 1.5 inches in front of where you put it now and drift your shins to it, thus you have a bit more knee, ankle flex. This is where your bod actually wants to pull from.

If you mark the center of the left bar end on your monitor (with the cursor perhaps)while watching the pull, have a look at your position and the bar position after you complete the rep and have the bar back on the floor. For rep 2 and at the release after rep 2 you have the bar end (sleeve center) just about an inch (or 2?) forward of where you start your first pull. You look better/stronger pulling from there.

“Most” people will put the bar back down onto the floor, and then readjust knee and ankle angles, into the position from which they should actually pull the first rep. See rep 2 from start to finish and try that position as for your first pull.

By the by, your head position reminds me of the disc I ruptured in my cervical spine a few decades ago.

The above offered most humbly.

By the way, yer an animal.[/quote]

Listen to Emskee, best pulling advice on 'da webz.

To piggyback on what Emskee said, it looks to me like your shin pushes the bar away just before you start the pull vs. “floating” away if you catch my drift (pun!).

And to piggyback on Eric Cressey (plus what Emskee said), keep your neck in neutral/packed, but “show the logo” on your t-shirt instead. For long-term neck/vertebrae health.

(I lurk on your log, and besides being an animal, yer an awesomely helpful resource and all-around great guy.)


#8

Thanks for all of the help everyone! I will definitely start applying all of the tips you guys provided and will hopefully pull a PR at the competition.

Emskee: I was wondering if you were still around! Great to hear from you brother! Very sound advice. You know I will put it into practice!

Top notch people in this forum. I really do appreciate all of the kind words and the helpful ideas…You guys almost make me want to venture out of the training log section more often!


#9

[quote]BroLac wrote:
Gotta drop your hips a bit more and get your shoulders a little more behind the bar. I’ve found this hard to do sometimes with a 4 inch belt so just recently switched to a 3 inch belt and I’m able to get myself into a much better position. Either way good pulling.[/quote]

I’ll second this.

If you look at you’re start position at like :58 the bar is well behind your shoulders. If you sink your hips a bit and get your chest up, it will put the bar directly underneath your shoulders where it will go once you start the pull.


#10

[quote]Alpha wrote:

Emskee: I was wondering if you were still around! Great to hear from you brother! Very sound advice. You know I will put it into practice!

[/quote]

Thanks.

There are a handful of guys built for a pegged shin DL (read: “no quads, lots of hammies”) who pull a half ton and then everyone gravitates to that style hoping to pull half a ton.

Most people need to put some knee over the bar, drop the hips a bit and pull from closer to the center of the foot.

From the looks of your second rep on that double, I would offer that you are of the latter class.

The guy who owned the gym I used to lift out of used to throw his other deadlifters at me for coaching. I’d always freeze them after they reset the bar after a heavy(ish) pull, stand up, look at where the bar was over the foot, memorize it. Then we’d do it again, and this time freeze at the bottom, feel the angles, feel the shin position, get all Zen, memorize it all. Then we’d continue to pull from there and fine tune as needed.

Yeah, I went underground.

After my 600 pull last April, I was training for a WNPF national thing. I got sick and was pretty ill for a few months. Old person disease. Lost some weight, got uglier.

My daughter wanted to lift at that contest so I went with her. Still pretty sick. Had just started eating solid food maybe 3 weeks prior. Was going to scratch up until like 10 minutes before my DL flight. But, she really wanted me to lift with her at the meet (my wife was all “are you sure? she’s really counting on you pulling.”)

Pulled 3 singles in the warm up room in like 5 minutes, went out and went 525, 560 and passed on my third. I was very much done.

Still set a national and state record DL with the 560, raw, 220, 55 - 59 year old. I wanted 600 - 630. Surprised I didn’t die on the platform.

My kid set 3 national and 4 state records. She is a natural deadlifter. One of my better genetic pass alongs.

Sorry, this is your thread…


#11

[quote]emskee wrote:

[quote]Alpha wrote:

Emskee: I was wondering if you were still around! Great to hear from you brother! Very sound advice. You know I will put it into practice!

[/quote]

Thanks.

There are a handful of guys built for a pegged shin DL (read: “no quads, lots of hammies”) who pull a half ton and then everyone gravitates to that style hoping to pull half a ton.

Most people need to put some knee over the bar, drop the hips a bit and pull from closer to the center of the foot.

From the looks of your second rep on that double, I would offer that you are of the latter class.

The guy who owned the gym I used to lift out of used to throw his other deadlifters at me for coaching. I’d always freeze them after they reset the bar after a heavy(ish) pull, stand up, look at where the bar was over the foot, memorize it. Then we’d do it again, and this time freeze at the bottom, feel the angles, feel the shin position, get all Zen, memorize it all. Then we’d continue to pull from there and fine tune as needed.

Yeah, I went underground.

After my 600 pull last April, I was training for a WNPF national thing. I got sick and was pretty ill for a few months. Old person disease. Lost some weight, got uglier.

My daughter wanted to lift at that contest so I went with her. Still pretty sick. Had just started eating solid food maybe 3 weeks prior. Was going to scratch up until like 10 minutes before my DL flight. But, she really wanted me to lift with her at the meet (my wife was all “are you sure? she’s really counting on you pulling.”)

Pulled 3 singles in the warm up room in like 5 minutes, went out and went 525, 560 and passed on my third. I was very much done.

Still set a national and state record DL with the 560, raw, 220, 55 - 59 year old. I wanted 600 - 630. Surprised I didn’t die on the platform.

My kid set 3 national and 4 state records. She is a natural deadlifter. One of my better genetic pass alongs.

Sorry, this is your thread…[/quote]

Holy shit man! No. This is now officially YOUR thread.

I am sorry to hear about you being sick. Sounds like things are in a little bit of a better place, though.

And could you be a little bit more inspirational?! Congrats to both you and your girl. Very humbling and impressive stuff.

For what it is worth, I miss the hell out of you being around. I hope you are feeling a little bit better these days.


#12

[quote]Alpha wrote:

Holy shit man! No. This is now officially YOUR thread.

I am sorry to hear about you being sick. Sounds like things are in a little bit of a better place, though.

And could you be a little bit more inspirational?! Congrats to both you and your girl. Very humbling and impressive stuff.

For what it is worth, I miss the hell out of you being around. I hope you are feeling a little bit better these days.[/quote]

Alpha,

You are a gentleman.

I thank you for your kind words.

It’s cool. People get sick. Never at the right time. (No kidding…)

Do note, my response here is the first offer of lifting advice I’ve given on this site since my fall from grace with the weights. This is out of respect for you personally.

I am on the upswing AGAIN. I had wanted to compete Feb. 22 but that was unrealistic, so I am shooting for one this Summer. I hope my daughter, by then graduated and working will have time to catch up and maybe we can again compete together. Maybe this time I’ll spend less time being sick in the men’s room and see a little more of the competition. Maybe get in more warm ups. Though, maybe what I’ve learned is that warm ups are over rated. 3 singles and hit the platform seemed to work okay.

But, again, your thread. Waiting to hear/see it when you find that sweet spot. Looks to me like you are wasting a good 50-70 pounds whilst catching your body up to where the bar originally needed to be. That said, you get over the bar a little more and it looks to me like 700 is automatic.


#13

Yeah, looks to me like you start the pull with your shoulders way in front of the bar. So when the weight is on your arms, it naturally swings to the bottom position directly under your shoulders which again is out in front of your shins.

Your arms are really just ropes. As strong as you are, you aren?t going to be able to move that much weight very far with your shoulders (try doing a front raise with it). If you pick up a load with a crane (using ropes) and don?t get the tip of the boom directly over the load, when you pick up the load it is going to swing to where ever the boom tip is above it.

With the weight off the ground, it?s going to always follow your shoulders, so if you want to keep the bar tighter, you need to adjust where your shoulders are. And this includes any deflection/rounding in your torso, so it isn?t just about where you set up. It?s where your shoulders end up once loaded.

If your balance is out on your toes, the easiest thing to do is probably to work on getting your balance back farther on your foot. Or don?t worry about it too much if it?s working. You could always set up with the bar rolled out a little farther so it doesn?t swing out.


#14

I think you are setting up too close to the bar. Your shins are pressing into the bar pushing it forward as you get into the bottom position. I would suggest pushing your hips back more at the start and I would also set up an inch or two further off the bar with respect to your shins.


#15

Hips way too high and shoulders far too ahead of the bar. Look at how horizontal your back is at the initial pull. The initial pull is all back and body naturally trying to center the bar up before it really gets moving. Get your hips down further and shoulder straight over the bar and use your legs more.


#16

Probably can´t use this for much but in general straight back deadlift will always feel hardest off the floor and people almost always get the lift if they can get it from the floor due too the hip position.


#17

Thanks again for all of your help everyone! And Emskee, I can’t wait until you feel well enough again to compete with your daughter. I am honored that you would take the time away from everything to come back and help me out. Means more than you know.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to access my form. Hopefully, by fixing the things all of you mentioned, that 700b pull won’t be too far away. I will keep you all updated. I really, really appreciate the help.


#18

[quote]emskee wrote:
Do note, my response here is the first offer of lifting advice I’ve given on this site since my fall from grace with the weights. This is out of respect for you personally.
[/quote]

Come on man, you’re like the Yoda of powerlifting. I would not consider setting records a, “fall from grace with the weights.”

For the love of God, post more!


#19

Alpha, I’m just curious, do you deficit pull at all?


#20

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Alpha, I’m just curious, do you deficit pull at all? [/quote]

Very, very little. I have found that double pause deadlifts have done more to help my pull out.