T Nation

Banned for Singing God Bless USA

http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-usa-song-ban-061112,0,532238.story

Greta Hawkins is the principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School in Coney Island. According to parents of the Kindergarten class, Hawkins has banned the students from singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation. The thing is, the little kids have been rehearsing the patriotic tune for weeks now, and were disappointed and confused at the principal’s decision.

Fucking disgraceful.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-usa-song-ban-061112,0,532238.story

Greta Hawkins is the principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School in Coney Island. According to parents of the Kindergarten class, Hawkins has banned the students from singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation. The thing is, the little kids have been rehearsing the patriotic tune for weeks now, and were disappointed and confused at the principal’s decision.

Fucking disgraceful. [/quote]

Why is this disgraceful? It is not the job of public schools to favor any religion, or to hold any moral system above any other. If parents want to teach their kids about religion, that is their business and right but there are a lot of parents in this country that do not want public schools to expose their kids to any religious or moral beliefs that are contradictory to their own, which is why such things are and should be left at home or in private schools. If the kids want to sing a patriotic song, there are plenty that do not involve any religion at all.

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-usa-song-ban-061112,0,532238.story

Greta Hawkins is the principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School in Coney Island. According to parents of the Kindergarten class, Hawkins has banned the students from singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation. The thing is, the little kids have been rehearsing the patriotic tune for weeks now, and were disappointed and confused at the principal’s decision.

Fucking disgraceful. [/quote]

Why is this disgraceful? It is not the job of public schools to favor any religion, or to hold any moral system above any other. If parents want to teach their kids about religion, that is their business and right but there are a lot of parents in this country that do not want public schools to expose their kids to any religious or moral beliefs that are contradictory to their own, which is why such things are and should be left at home or in private schools. If the kids want to sing a patriotic song, there are plenty that do not involve any religion at all. [/quote]

Then, I NEVER want to ever hear a Democrat say anything like “what would Jesus do ?”

I don’t get it, saying the word God doesn’t favor one religion only one language. The word “allah” simply means god and other languages call their gods by their own names but god is still an acceptable translation. Mentioning the word God in a song isn’t religious indoctrination any more than “one nation under god” in our pledge. Sounds like more PC pansy ass garbage to me.

[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t get it, saying the word God doesn’t favor one religion only one language. The word “allah” simply means god and other languages call their gods by their own names but god is still an acceptable translation. Mentioning the word God in a song isn’t religious indoctrination any more than “one nation under god” in our pledge. Sounds like more PC pansy ass garbage to me.[/quote]

The language favours theists and deists.

I don’t care personally.

[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t get it, saying the word God doesn’t favor one religion only one language. The word “allah” simply means god and other languages call their gods by their own names but god is still an acceptable translation. Mentioning the word God in a song isn’t religious indoctrination any more than “one nation under god” in our pledge. Sounds like more PC pansy ass garbage to me.[/quote]

Let’s pretend that the song isn’t referring to the Christian god, which I highly doubt, the word God is inherently referring to a monotheistic religious entity and as I said there are many people in this country that do not want their kids exposed to such things, whether because they are not religious or are polytheistic or just do not want religion involved in any way with public schools and it is not the job of the public school system to expose kids to such things.

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t get it, saying the word God doesn’t favor one religion only one language. The word “allah” simply means god and other languages call their gods by their own names but god is still an acceptable translation. Mentioning the word God in a song isn’t religious indoctrination any more than “one nation under god” in our pledge. Sounds like more PC pansy ass garbage to me.[/quote]

Let’s pretend that the song isn’t referring to the Christian god, which I highly doubt, the word God is inherently referring to a monotheistic religious entity and as I said there are many people in this country that do not want their kids exposed to such things, whether because they are not religious or are polytheistic or just do not want religion involved in any way with public schools and it is not the job of the public school system to expose kids to such things. [/quote]

So then I can assume you think the pledge of allegiance should be left out of all schooling as well. Fair enough I guess but if someone got worked up over their kid singing a damn song in kindergarten that over all patriotic and positive towards their homeland then I’d say they’re probably wound up too tight and should probably go ahead and shoot themselves cause their poor little kids are going to be exposed to a hell of a lot worse.

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
I don’t get it, saying the word God doesn’t favor one religion only one language. The word “allah” simply means god and other languages call their gods by their own names but god is still an acceptable translation. Mentioning the word God in a song isn’t religious indoctrination any more than “one nation under god” in our pledge. Sounds like more PC pansy ass garbage to me.[/quote]

Let’s pretend that the song isn’t referring to the Christian god, which I highly doubt, the word God is inherently referring to a monotheistic religious entity and as I said there are many people in this country that do not want their kids exposed to such things, whether because they are not religious or are polytheistic or just do not want religion involved in any way with public schools and it is not the job of the public school system to expose kids to such things. [/quote]

So then I can assume you think the pledge of allegiance should be left out of all schooling as well. Fair enough I guess but if someone got worked up over their kid singing a damn song in kindergarten that over all patriotic and positive towards their homeland then I’d say they’re probably wound up too tight and should probably go ahead and shoot themselves cause their poor little kids are going to be exposed to a hell of a lot worse.[/quote]

I actually do not disagree with you at all. In fact, I tend to say much the same thing when I hear people complain about teaching sex ed in public schools. Actually, I do not think it the duty of public schools to teach sex ed at all, that should be left up to parents just like morals and religion, but like you said, kids will be exposed to much worse then condoms and instructions on safe sex practices so why bother even bringing it up?

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-usa-song-ban-061112,0,532238.story

Greta Hawkins is the principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School in Coney Island. According to parents of the Kindergarten class, Hawkins has banned the students from singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation. The thing is, the little kids have been rehearsing the patriotic tune for weeks now, and were disappointed and confused at the principal’s decision.

Fucking disgraceful. [/quote]

Why is this disgraceful? It is not the job of public schools to favor any religion, or to hold any moral system above any other. If parents want to teach their kids about religion, that is their business and right but there are a lot of parents in this country that do not want public schools to expose their kids to any religious or moral beliefs that are contradictory to their own, which is why such things are and should be left at home or in private schools. If the kids want to sing a patriotic song, there are plenty that do not involve any religion at all. [/quote]

Then, I NEVER want to ever hear a Democrat say anything like “what would Jesus do ?”[/quote]

What does being a Democrat have to do with it? It is separation from Church and State which both parties should support. Also any “Democrat” or Republican for that matter who agrees with Matt would most likely not say WWJD.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-usa-song-ban-061112,0,532238.story

Greta Hawkins is the principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School in Coney Island. According to parents of the Kindergarten class, Hawkins has banned the students from singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation. The thing is, the little kids have been rehearsing the patriotic tune for weeks now, and were disappointed and confused at the principal’s decision.

Fucking disgraceful. [/quote]

Why is this disgraceful? It is not the job of public schools to favor any religion, or to hold any moral system above any other. If parents want to teach their kids about religion, that is their business and right but there are a lot of parents in this country that do not want public schools to expose their kids to any religious or moral beliefs that are contradictory to their own, which is why such things are and should be left at home or in private schools. If the kids want to sing a patriotic song, there are plenty that do not involve any religion at all. [/quote]

Then, I NEVER want to ever hear a Democrat say anything like “what would Jesus do ?”[/quote]

Who the hell says that?

Why would little kids be singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation or the pledge of allegiance? I doubt they know what they are saying.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
http://www.wpix.com/news/local/wpix-usa-song-ban-061112,0,532238.story

Greta Hawkins is the principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School in Coney Island. According to parents of the Kindergarten class, Hawkins has banned the students from singing “God Bless the USA” at their graduation. The thing is, the little kids have been rehearsing the patriotic tune for weeks now, and were disappointed and confused at the principal’s decision.

Fucking disgraceful. [/quote]

Why is this disgraceful? It is not the job of public schools to favor any religion, or to hold any moral system above any other. If parents want to teach their kids about religion, that is their business and right but there are a lot of parents in this country that do not want public schools to expose their kids to any religious or moral beliefs that are contradictory to their own, which is why such things are and should be left at home or in private schools. If the kids want to sing a patriotic song, there are plenty that do not involve any religion at all. [/quote]

Then, I NEVER want to ever hear a Democrat say anything like “what would Jesus do ?”[/quote]

What does being a Democrat have to do with it? It is separation from Church and State which both parties should support. Also any “Democrat” or Republican for that matter who agrees with Matt would most likely not say WWJD.[/quote]

Agreed, and anyone who disagrees with me is free to practice and express their religious belief without interference from the government or anyone else so if a democrat wants to say WWJD, he or she is free to. What they are not free to do is promote one form of religion or another using the authority granted by any government job he or she may or may not have, which is the issue here, not some random member of a political party saying an outdated catchphrase.

Freedom of religion (or lack thereof) doesn’t stop at Christianity’s doorstep.

Have them read the Declaration of Independence. Watch the intellectual meltdown.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Have them read the Declaration of Independence. Watch the intellectual meltdown.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.[/quote]

I highly doubt anyone is surprised that a letter drafted during a time when something like 90% or more of the population in the colonies was Christian, and almost all of the drafters were as well, has references to God and Natural Law. What is more telling is that these men, the vast majority of whom were Christian, did not see fit to declare the US a Christian nation in the Constitution, does not establish Christian Law as the law of the land, and does not require a person to belong to Christianity to hold office.

The first amendment states:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

You may also want to take a look at the Treaty of Tripoli, which was ratified by the Senate in 1797, which was nearly 100% Christian. Specifically Article 11:

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Have them read the Declaration of Independence. Watch the intellectual meltdown.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.[/quote]

I highly doubt anyone is surprised that a letter drafted during a time when something like 90% or more of the population in the colonies was Christian, and almost all of the drafters were as well, has references to God and Natural Law. What is more telling is that these men, the vast majority of whom were Christian, did not see fit to declare the US a Christian nation in the Constitution, does not establish Christian Law as the law of the land, and does not require a person to belong to Christianity to hold office.

The first amendment states:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

You may also want to take a look at the Treaty of Tripoli, which was ratified by the Senate in 1797, which was nearly 100% Christian. Specifically Article 11:

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

[/quote]

What does this have to do with my suggestion that they should read the Declaration of Independence? Well, two snippets at least.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence (God Bless the USA, anyone? Anyone?), we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

If you’re banning God Bless The USA because you’re that much of an idiot, ban the recital of the Declaration. I’d love to see this idiocy carried out to full.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

What does this have to do with my suggestion that they should read the Declaration of Independence? Well, two snippets at least.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. [/quote]

What did your suggestion that they read the Declaration of Independence have to do with this thread? This discussion is about a 1st amendment issue, not a Declaration of Independence issue. No one argued that the Declaration did not mention God or that the vast majority of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, but they were also wise enough to not make the US a Christian nation even though I doubt many would have complained since the vast majority of the population was Christian.

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

What does this have to do with my suggestion that they should read the Declaration of Independence? Well, two snippets at least.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. [/quote]

What did your suggestion that they read the Declaration of Independence have to do with this thread? This discussion is about a 1st amendment issue, not a Declaration of Independence issue. No one argued that the Declaration did not mention God or that the vast majority of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, but they were also wise enough to not make the US a Christian nation even though I doubt many would have complained since the vast majority of the population was Christian.
[/quote]

If you can’t make the connection between a ban on singing God Bless the USA, and my suggestion that they then recite text from the Declaration, which basically says the same…and your supposed 1st amendment issue at play here…I can’t help you.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

What does this have to do with my suggestion that they should read the Declaration of Independence? Well, two snippets at least.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. [/quote]

What did your suggestion that they read the Declaration of Independence have to do with this thread? This discussion is about a 1st amendment issue, not a Declaration of Independence issue. No one argued that the Declaration did not mention God or that the vast majority of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, but they were also wise enough to not make the US a Christian nation even though I doubt many would have complained since the vast majority of the population was Christian.
[/quote]

If you can’t make the connection between a ban on singing God Bless the USA, and my suggestion that they then recite text from the Declaration, which basically says the same…and your supposed 1st amendment issue at play here…I can’t help you. [/quote]

Singing a song usually has a different meaning than reciting a historical document.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

What does this have to do with my suggestion that they should read the Declaration of Independence? Well, two snippets at least.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation…

…And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. [/quote]

What did your suggestion that they read the Declaration of Independence have to do with this thread? This discussion is about a 1st amendment issue, not a Declaration of Independence issue. No one argued that the Declaration did not mention God or that the vast majority of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, but they were also wise enough to not make the US a Christian nation even though I doubt many would have complained since the vast majority of the population was Christian.
[/quote]

If you can’t make the connection between a ban on singing God Bless the USA, and my suggestion that they then recite text from the Declaration, which basically says the same…and your supposed 1st amendment issue at play here…I can’t help you. [/quote]

Singing a song usually has a different meaning than reciting a historical document.[/quote]

We are so doomed.