Ahaha when you inject make sure you inspect dont want no synthottie in your bottie. Valentino for your peno!
[quote]chobbs wrote:
Honestly, if things keep going well my plan is to start to us around my mid 20’s. No I sure as hell won’t be competing, no I won’t be making money, no I won’t be setting world records but I’m doing it for me. I’m not doing it so I can bench more than the guy next to me at the gym. It’s purely personal reasons. Oh well, that’s a long ways down the road.[/quote]
Figured I would just throw out my story, not that It should impact your decision much. Came out of HS and went on to play DII football. Half the team was on, including my roommate who was pretty knowledgeable on this topic. Long story short, I jumped on a test only cycle because I wanted to be the biggest/fastest/strongest version of myself for those 4 years.
That was about 13 years ago, and I was running 500mg of sustanon/week, and followed with PCT of just nolvadex. Ran that 12 weeks during the ‘off season’ 3 out of the 4 years, and kept about 90% of what I gained. Fast forward a couple years, tore my ACL in a flag football game, had surgury and didn’t do shit for about 2 years. Lost all gains, back to square one (6-1, 190-200lbs).
Met my future wife when I hit 30, and started to get back into heavy training. Qualified for TRT, but decided I wanted a ‘little more’ for a bit better recovery. Got married, started a nice low dose test only, like 300mg/week, and started 5/3/1. I usually do 12 weeks on/12 off with just test only, very low dose, and have had no issues at all (other than enhanced recovery). 2 beatiful children and a happy wife so far
I think what I’m trying to say is that test only supplementation seems to be pretty damn safe, its when people go nutso with all the other crazy compounds that you start to see issues popping up. I never had issues with bloat, gyno, shriveled ballz or any of that junk. Whatever decision you make, just be sure to thoroughly research it out so you understand how these chemicals work in your body.
shoot me an email, its my username @ yahoo, and I’ll get those oly shoes over to you to try out.
Really appreciate your story and opinion. That’s my main point, if I’m going to go on I’m going to know everything and what to do even if the slightest thing goes wrong. I sent that email, lemme know if it did/didn’t go through.
Week 8 Day 2
Hang cleans from pin
95x5, 95x5, 135x5, 155x5
Power cleans…all for singles
155, 175, 185, 205, 225xfail
High pull…with straps
135x2, 155x2, 185x2x2
Pullups with 45 lbs
5x5
Db row
3x5 with 120
Cable row
3x12
Straight arm pulldown
3x10
KB hammer curl
3x10
-SS-
Laterals
3x20
Rollouts
2x8…left bicep tendon hurt so I quit…finished with toes to bar 2x8
-SS-
Pull aparts
4x25
I don’t know if it’s just in my head or what but I got pissed off midway through my session for literally no reason. This was one of those sessions where I did alot but didn’t get alot down if that makes sense…a definite -10%'er
Here’s an article about ephedrine and some sides but I don’t feel as if these side effects should kick in after only maybe a week of usage.
Nor to everyone*. These things can* happen… doent mean they will.
Week 8 Day 3
Close grip bench…2:30 rest…half of thumb was on smooth
95x8, 135x6, 155x4, 175x2
185x8 paused
185x8 paused
205x7
225x8 slingshot
Face pull…60 sec
5x20
Leaning lateral raise…90
4x12 with 25’s
DB floor press…90 sec
3x12 with 60’s
So do you think you could compare 5/3/1 to Base Building? Which do you prefer?
[quote]trivium wrote:
So do you think you could compare 5/3/1 to Base Building? Which do you prefer?[/quote]
I’ll try even though BBM might not get a fair shot because I’ve been losing weight the whole time. I’m also positive I’ll think of something I didn’t put and place it on here later so here’s what I have now.
5/3/1 Positive
-flexability
-you’re going to get stronger
-hit 4 barbell lifts every week
-programmed deload
-literally the simplest programming possible
-makes room for crappy days
-lots of room for trial and error with technique because of frequency (if choosen)
5/3/1 Negatives
-some lifts might respond better to higher frequency/volume/intensity
-slow
-when you get to near max weights, it is mentally and physically exhausting
-doesn’t teach you or encourage you to grow your own principles
-monotonous
-programmed deload
-I’m gonna get flamed for this…but I feel like I have lifts that if I train the muscles the lift goes up (deadlift) without having to deadlift, which saves recovery. I also have lifts that if I just train the muscles and not the lift (bench) it regresses. I think 5/3/1 junkies get such a hard on for saying that the only way to get stronger is Wendler’s 4 exercises.
BBM Positives…note: this is strictly BBM pros and cons, not mass building or strong-15 which is in the manuel
-recovery
-mental freshness
-flexibility with exercises
-focuses on more than just bar weight
-builds personal principles
-building muscle isn’t ignored
-BIG PERSONAL PREFERENCE: large focus on paused benching/squatting
-if you’re smart about it: auto regulation
BBM Negatives
-not for beginners
-eventually you’re going to have to put more weight on the bar, somewhat confusing to when you should
-if you’re dumb about it: auto regulation
-it’s fun, I enjoy going to the gym
-I used to think I was just tired on 5/3/1 but I realize now I was just shot…I feel great 7 days a week now
-if you lie to yourself and say you’re doing CAT and really you aren’t you aren’t going anywhere
Hope that’s what you were wanting, if not I’ll try again. Overall, I’m glad I ran 5/3/1 for as long as I did but I’m also glad I made the change to BBM. There’s more than one way to get strong Wendlers being more weight on the bar every time. Carter also says eventually you have to add more weight on the bar but you can improve strength first by improving bar speed, decreasing rest and increasing work capacity.
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
So do you think you could compare 5/3/1 to Base Building? Which do you prefer?[/quote]
I’ll try even though BBM might not get a fair shot because I’ve been losing weight the whole time. I’m also positive I’ll think of something I didn’t put and place it on here later so here’s what I have now.
5/3/1 Positive
-flexability
-you’re going to get stronger
-hit 4 barbell lifts every week
-programmed deload
-literally the simplest programming possible
-makes room for crappy days
-lots of room for trial and error with technique because of frequency (if choosen)
5/3/1 Negatives
-some lifts might respond better to higher frequency/volume/intensity
-slow
-when you get to near max weights, it is mentally and physically exhausting
-doesn’t teach you or encourage you to grow your own principles
-monotonous
-programmed deload
-I’m gonna get flamed for this…but I feel like I have lifts that if I train the muscles the lift goes up (deadlift) without having to deadlift, which saves recovery. I also have lifts that if I just train the muscles and not the lift (bench) it regresses. I think 5/3/1 junkies get such a hard on for saying that the only way to get stronger is Wendler’s 4 exercises.
BBM Positives…note: this is strictly BBM pros and cons, not mass building or strong-15 which is in the manuel
-recovery
-mental freshness
-flexibility with exercises
-focuses on more than just bar weight
-builds personal principles
-building muscle isn’t ignored
-BIG PERSONAL PREFERENCE: large focus on paused benching/squatting
-if you’re smart about it: auto regulation
BBM Negatives
-not for beginners
-eventually you’re going to have to put more weight on the bar, somewhat confusing to when you should
-if you’re dumb about it: auto regulation
-it’s fun, I enjoy going to the gym
-I used to think I was just tired on 5/3/1 but I realize now I was just shot…I feel great 7 days a week now
-if you lie to yourself and say you’re doing CAT and really you aren’t you aren’t going anywhere
Hope that’s what you were wanting, if not I’ll try again. Overall, I’m glad I ran 5/3/1 for as long as I did but I’m also glad I made the change to BBM. There’s more than one way to get strong Wendlers being more weight on the bar every time. Carter also says eventually you have to add more weight on the bar but you can improve strength first by improving bar speed, decreasing rest and increasing work capacity. [/quote]
Great write up.
One last question. Do you prefer one over the other, or do you view it as both have their time and place to be deployed?
Both definitely have a time and place…you have to have at least a baseline level of strength for BBM…doing CAT squats will do morning for you of you’re doing them with 105 lbs
lol so true with the wendler junkies
People want to think that you only need to bench squat and pull to get better at them when literalyl everyone strong suggests working muscle groups at least at low intensities after to train the muscle
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
lol so true with the wendler junkies
People want to think that you only need to bench squat and pull to get better at them when literalyl everyone strong suggests working muscle groups at least at low intensities after to train the muscle [/quote]
If we said this in the powerlifting section out accounts would be banned lolol
Haha yup. I feel like I learn/experience principals from each program. And take and apply them later on to what works for me as a whole.
[/quote]
5/3/1 Positive
-flexability
-you’re going to get stronger
-hit 4 barbell lifts every week
-programmed deload
-literally the simplest programming possible
-makes room for crappy days
-lots of room for trial and error with technique because of frequency (if choosen)
5/3/1 Negatives
-some lifts might respond better to higher frequency/volume/intensity
-slow
-when you get to near max weights, it is mentally and physically exhausting
-doesn’t teach you or encourage you to grow your own principles
-monotonous
-programmed deload
-I’m gonna get flamed for this…but I feel like I have lifts that if I train the muscles the lift goes up (deadlift) without having to deadlift, which saves recovery. I also have lifts that if I just train the muscles and not the lift (bench) it regresses. I think 5/3/1 junkies get such a hard on for saying that the only way to get stronger is Wendler’s 4 exercises.
[/quote]
Dude, I feel the same way on 5/3/1 sometimes. I just feel like there’s so much grind. I try to suck it up and push through, but then my numbers start to go stagnant. I’ll start to miss my calculated lifts, which makes me consider to recalculate my max’s again…
Wendlers a smart guy. I like 5/3/1. But he never squatted 900 raw… benched 600… pulled 1000… I just think its smarter to listen to the people who have actually done it and take concepts and principles.
5/3/1 is great and wendler is a genius, but for people to think they can hit those numbers with 5/3/1 are bat shit crazy. You need to do it for some period of time as a beginner/intermediate and apply what you learn later on if you really want to take it that far.
[quote]carlos_anton wrote:
[/quote]
5/3/1 Positive
-flexability
-you’re going to get stronger
-hit 4 barbell lifts every week
-programmed deload
-literally the simplest programming possible
-makes room for crappy days
-lots of room for trial and error with technique because of frequency (if choosen)
5/3/1 Negatives
-some lifts might respond better to higher frequency/volume/intensity
-slow
-when you get to near max weights, it is mentally and physically exhausting
-doesn’t teach you or encourage you to grow your own principles
-monotonous
-programmed deload
-I’m gonna get flamed for this…but I feel like I have lifts that if I train the muscles the lift goes up (deadlift) without having to deadlift, which saves recovery. I also have lifts that if I just train the muscles and not the lift (bench) it regresses. I think 5/3/1 junkies get such a hard on for saying that the only way to get stronger is Wendler’s 4 exercises.
[/quote]
Dude, I feel the same way on 5/3/1 sometimes. I just feel like there’s so much grind. I try to suck it up and push through, but then my numbers start to go stagnant. I’ll start to miss my calculated lifts, which makes me consider to recalculate my max’s again…[/quote]
I second the whole grinding thing…that’s another thing, on BBM my last squat PR was the only rep I’ve grinded in the past 8 weeks
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
Wendlers a smart guy. I like 5/3/1. But he never squatted 900 raw… benched 600… pulled 1000… I just think its smarter to listen to the people who have actually done it and take concepts and principles.
5/3/1 is great and wendler is a genius, but for people to think they can hit those numbers with 5/3/1 are bat shit crazy. You need to do it for some period of time as a beginner/intermediate and apply what you learn later on if you really want to take it that far.[/quote]
Exactly, it’s an excellent beginner program
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
Wendlers a smart guy. I like 5/3/1. But he never squatted 900 raw… benched 600… pulled 1000… I just think its smarter to listen to the people who have actually done it and take concepts and principles.
5/3/1 is great and wendler is a genius, but for people to think they can hit those numbers with 5/3/1 are bat shit crazy. You need to do it for some period of time as a beginner/intermediate and apply what you learn later on if you really want to take it that far.[/quote]
Exactly, it’s an excellent beginner program[/quote]
I’m doing my own experimentation with the program to create my own training methodology. I do believe in the basic premise, especially the 4 basic principles, but sometimes I wonder what is the fine line between training efficiently and becoming overburdened (the point where even a 5 lb jump seems crazy to keep doing).
I haven’t solidified my template yet, so I haven’t really explained it anywhere.
I am confident that some form of 5/3/1 will take me from my current goals to calculated maxes of 450/350/500 within the next two years.
I think that the purpose of 5/3/1 is to make the user experiment by using set programs, and then allowing them to create once they have run enough templates to understand what works for them.
I’ve done a year of BBB. I followed that up with my own variation of triumvirate for about 9 months. I am now making my own assistance based on what I feel is most important, and I am using a basic template as a platform to develop my own theory.
In fact, I will go as far as to say that, just as Jim has stated in the past, the program is designed to keep you on railroad tracks in some areas to prevent you from full on stupidity, while allowing you to make choices in others based on your needs.
[quote]chobbs wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
So do you think you could compare 5/3/1 to Base Building? Which do you prefer?[/quote]
I’ll try even though BBM might not get a fair shot because I’ve been losing weight the whole time. I’m also positive I’ll think of something I didn’t put and place it on here later so here’s what I have now.
5/3/1 Positive
-flexability
-you’re going to get stronger
-hit 4 barbell lifts every week
-programmed deload
-literally the simplest programming possible
-makes room for crappy days
-lots of room for trial and error with technique because of frequency (if choosen)
5/3/1 Negatives
-some lifts might respond better to higher frequency/volume/intensity
-slow
-when you get to near max weights, it is mentally and physically exhausting
-doesn’t teach you or encourage you to grow your own principles
-monotonous
-programmed deload
-I’m gonna get flamed for this…but I feel like I have lifts that if I train the muscles the lift goes up (deadlift) without having to deadlift, which saves recovery. I also have lifts that if I just train the muscles and not the lift (bench) it regresses. I think 5/3/1 junkies get such a hard on for saying that the only way to get stronger is Wendler’s 4 exercises.
BBM Positives…note: this is strictly BBM pros and cons, not mass building or strong-15 which is in the manuel
-recovery
-mental freshness
-flexibility with exercises
-focuses on more than just bar weight
-builds personal principles
-building muscle isn’t ignored
-BIG PERSONAL PREFERENCE: large focus on paused benching/squatting
-if you’re smart about it: auto regulation
BBM Negatives
-not for beginners
-eventually you’re going to have to put more weight on the bar, somewhat confusing to when you should
-if you’re dumb about it: auto regulation
-it’s fun, I enjoy going to the gym
-I used to think I was just tired on 5/3/1 but I realize now I was just shot…I feel great 7 days a week now
-if you lie to yourself and say you’re doing CAT and really you aren’t you aren’t going anywhere
Hope that’s what you were wanting, if not I’ll try again. Overall, I’m glad I ran 5/3/1 for as long as I did but I’m also glad I made the change to BBM. There’s more than one way to get strong Wendlers being more weight on the bar every time. Carter also says eventually you have to add more weight on the bar but you can improve strength first by improving bar speed, decreasing rest and increasing work capacity. [/quote]
First, how did you steal my idea for a log title?
Kidding.
(Although, I think I tripped on a frat boy trying to get to page 2.)
I’ve bought both books, and haven’t run either program yet. It’s nice to see some pros and cons for each. Looks like you’ve made decent gainz so far even while dropping weight (…says some dumb skank). I’ll be following along to see what you think. Strong work.