T Nation



I don't understand why the "potential" ban is such a big deal. Didn't they add the caveat "unless the supplement companies can prove it's safe?"

So...If Biotest can back up the claims it makes that MAG10 is safe then they can continue to sell it...as far as I can tell.

This seems like a no brainer to me. If they can't prove it's safe you wouldn't want to use it...right?

If they prove that it is safe then you get to continue using it.

Am I missing something here?


The FDA might being saying something different privately to the manufacturers of these products forcing them to do what Biotest is doing. You really don't want to be on the bad side of FDA. I'm sure they can hit you with some serious fines.


"Safe" is one of those things that is kind of blurry, just like the current "obscenity" witch hunt. I am positive that my definition of safe and the government's is something totally different. Safe to me means that it will not give me cancer or death, Safe to the government means that it does not piss of big pharmaceutical company campaign contributors. It is impossible for a supplement company to provide tests that show long term usage is safe because they have not been out that long.


TC, Tim and I talked about this last night. Tim basically said that no matter how much "proof" they were given, the government wouldn't go for it. "Proving" this would also cost 30-50 thousand minimal from what I understand. Biotest has already spent somewhere around a half million fighting things like this, all to to avail.

The writing is on the wall here. Prohormones aren't dead yet, but have been put on death row. Biotest could continue to sell MAG-10 for a short while, but why mess with the FDA? It's just not a smart thing to do. Want to lose other supplements? Piss off the FDA and we might.

And think about this - how would you, as a company owner, like to spend $500,000 on raw ingredients only to have them seized before you could make a product with them? That's a risk too.

Then there's class action lawsuits already in the works against prohormone makers. The major supplement stores like GNC won't carry them anymore either. Basically, Biotest is getting out while the "gittin'" is good. After MAG-10 is gone (less that a week we're betting) Biotest can then focus on other supplements - new muscle builders, new fat burners, etc. There's some very exciting stuff already in the works.

Spending money to keep MAG-10 alive is just pissing in the wind at this point. And those companies that choose to keep selling prohormones until the jack-booted thugs come in and seize everything are doing much more harm than good to the supplement industry.

So, if you love MAG-10, wait for the site update today and stock up.


Funny thing is how many people have died from asprin and tylenol this year...I bet its a couple thousand more than epedra and prohormones.


i hear that i just did a report on it. Also the one real mag edition of Test MAg has the whole list in there.everything from pseudoehpedrine to alcohol and meds


Hey Chris - thanks for the good/thorough answer on that. I guess I wasn't thinking about it from that angle.

I'm sure other companies will hang on too long, and this will cause problems for the whole industry.

The skeptic in me still wonders if this is just Biotest admitting that it really is an unsafe supplement and that it's smarter to pull it now to avoid the wrath of the FDA and the class action groups.

I guess time will tell.



Mike, if you tried to kill yourself with it you couldn't. However, that would be quite easy to do with many common over the counter medications. See Cy Willson's latest article at T-mag.


The lady at the GNC told me they are pulling anything with Tribulus terrestris in it. She tried to sell me some Methoxytest Cyclosome Rockers from Pinnacle. I'm not sure if all GNC are doing this but they are getting too freaked.


This is a really smart buisness move in my opinion. Fighting to keep prohormones around would be a risk to the entire company. The issues that Biotest and T-Mag stand for are much more important.

Massage the system, don't make the FDA angry, recruit more T-Men, and hopefully the day will come when the tide starts to turn in favor of more rational thinking when it comes to supplements.


I've got the FCC taking away my Stern show and the FDA taking away my Mag-10! WTF!