Oh, and no public autopsy.
[quote]TheCB wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]TheCB wrote:
[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
One day the riots will turn into witch hunts, people pulling other people out of cars and beating them to death, lighting houses and churches and hospitals on fire, etcā¦
[/quote]
typical complete bullshit hyperbole from an internet nostradamus.
[/quote]
Iām going to go out on a limb and assume you were too young for the LA Riots in the 90ās and havenāt actually read anything on them?[/quote]
were multiple people dragged from cars and killed?
were hospitals burned to the ground? multiple houses? churches?
because that is what is being stated in the above post.
posting a video of one person being badly beaten does not prove ANY of the above btw (i know it was another poster, but still).
it is an extraordinary leap to go from the current problems to saying random people will be pulled from cars and killed and hospitals burned to the ground. i really do not understand the need for such outlandish exaggerating.[/quote]
Exceptā¦ Past is prologue.
The Baltimore riots, the Los Angeles Rodney King riots of 1992 and the Watts Riots of 1965 combined cannot compete with the Tulsa Oklahoma riot of 1921 in terms of damage to property and loss of life. The difference between the former three and the latter one is that whereas the riots by blacks were (and are) by and large confined to their own neighborhoods, and for the most part venting of impotent rage against abstract institutions (āthe policeā or āpovertyā or āunemploymentā), the Tulsa mob was focused: they had a clear objective, which was to go to where the niggers live and fuck them the hell up.
So to an extent I agree with Phoenix. Blacks are getting angrier, and better organized. They have Twitter and Facebook to help them coordinate, not to mention Google Maps, which will allow them to find where the white suburbs are.
If (and this is the operative word) a black mob ever gets it into its collective head to take up arms and march into Torrance, or Beverly Hills, or Georgetown, with the intention of emulating the mob in Tulsa, then yes, it will be a massacre. On both sides. Because whereas nobody was around in 1921 to help a bunch of poor blacks defend themselves, you can bet that the police and military would swoop in in a heartbeat to come to the aid of the rich white people, and the old MACV-SOG motto āterminate with extreme prejudiceā would take on an a completely renewed meaning.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Not taking the bait, USMC
You like to twist words too much to argue with. Youāre subtle, Iāll give you that. But you are still twisting what I write. Not interested in ādebatingā anyone anymore about this. How you can just flippantly dismiss the actual experiences of someone who grew up in the very neighborhoods being discussed who has had first hand interaction with officers (you know, the EXACT topic on hand?) is beyond me. It boggles my little brain.
But whatever, youāre right, Iām wrong. "nuff said. After all, you have STATISTICS. And everyone knows, STATISTICS never lieā¦[/quote]
Iām not twisting anything and I hardly dismissed your experiences even though I doubt youāve witnessed thousands of cases of real infringements.
[/quote]Example A: I never said āthousandsā. Go back and read what I wrote. Did I write āthousandsā? No? OK, moving on[quote]
Iām arguing with facts not emotion, but whatever. You donāt like facts when they disagree with you, most people donāt, I get it. Iād hate for silly little statistics, like a citizen of Baltimore is more likely to be killed by another citizen than a police officer, to get in the way of sticking it to the man.
[/quote]The fact (which I have NEVER disputed in this thread or any other) that a citizen of Baltimore is more likely to be killed or assaulted by another āBalti-moronā has absolutely NOTHING to do with my argument that the police in Baltimore are corrupt, violent pieces of shit with a track record of brutality. NOTHING AT ALL. OF COURSE people are going to have more conflict with each other than with police - THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE! DUH!
Now HOW does that refute my point? Baltimore is a dangerous place, yes? SO WHAT? Does that give cops the right to beat up young people they arrest? Does that give them the right to harass people who they ājust KNOWā are guilty of āsomethingā? āBut look at the statistics of how many people in Baltimore shoot each other!ā I have agreed with that point. Iāve been shot, stabbed, beaten and run over by Non-police officers more times than I have been beaten by police officers. Does that mean that since I got beaten LESS by the cops than I got into fights with citizens that the cops are āa OKā? Is that where you are going with this? Please, enlighten me, cuz youāve gotten me all confused here. I know, Iām not very smart and I HAVE been hit in the head a few times, so please, explain it to me so I can understandā¦ [quote]
Iām mainly just surprised Obama hasnāt declared martial law and burned the constitution. I guess itās because the Jade Helm training hasnāt happened yet, oh well, wasted opportunity I guess. [/quote]
Mock my mis-trust of this government all you want. I donāt think anyone with two eyes, two ears and a brain can deny that we are LOSING freedoms every year with various pieces of legislation, executive action or three letter agency policy (much of it hidden or made behind closed doors). We (our country) are a frog sitting in a pot of water on the stove and EVERY TIME I point that out, you come back with, āwhat are you talking about, the water is barely even hot!ā. Of course they didnāt declare martial law, the violence didnāt warrant it. Not yet.
Why do you think the standing order from each of the leaders of these liberal hot bed cities is to ālet them destroyā? Why are they AWARE of approximately 50 or so āagitatorsā with active social media accounts that appear to KNOW and PREDICT that violence is going to happen, but they are not arrested, but when a woman in Georgia threatens some police, SHE is arrested within hours on charges of TERRORISM? It seems to me that they WANT the āwronged minority citizensā to be angry and get out and wreak mayhem on the street. Notice how it escalates and is more organized each time? They are STILL protesting in Ferguson. Do you think the Baltimore protests will just āgo awayā? Whatās the next liberal controlled predominant āminorityā city that will begin to riot?
How many cities experiencing āregular civil unrestā will it take before āsomething needs to be doneā?
All I can do is look at trends, read between the lines of bullshit that the MEDIA spoon feeds us, figure out who stands to benefit from what and ask a few questions. Why do I mistrust our government? BECAUSE THEY LIE. Thatās why.
Do you disagree with the fact that our government spies on us and lies to us?
Are you āfineā with it?
This is getting interestingā¦well, not really
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Not disagreeing with you completely, but when was the last time white people rioted ?
ā¦
Please indulge us. Letās start with our continent, and work our way to our country for starters.
And please no references to Boston circa 1770.
[/quote]
V. did a great and thorough job. Iāll add one, though Iām not entirely sure it hasnāt already been mentioned:
Note that ā though new information (e.g. the possibility that Gray self-injured) may or may not change our final analysis ā the black riots in Bmore were occasioned by a dead man, and the white riots in Penn State were occasioned by the firing of a man who concealed the crimes of a serial child rapist.
If you can manage to get yourself exercised about only one of these two eventsā¦and if you didnāt find yourself, in 2011, asking āwhen was the last time black people riotedāā¦you have more immediate worries than the latest headlines out of Maryland.
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Oh, and no public autopsy. [/quote]
A criminal who couldnāt see Gray claims he thinks Gray intentionally harmed himself, really?
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Not disagreeing with you completely, but when was the last time white people rioted ?
ā¦
Please indulge us. Letās start with our continent, and work our way to our country for starters.
And please no references to Boston circa 1770.
[/quote]
V. did a great and thorough job. Iāll add one, though Iām not entirely sure it hasnāt already been mentioned:
Note that ā though new information (e.g. the possibility that Gray self-injured) may or may not change our final analysis ā the black riots in Bmore were occasioned by a dead man, and the white riots in Penn State were occasioned by the firing of a man who concealed the crimes of a serial child rapist.
If you can manage to get yourself exercised about only one of these two eventsā¦and if you didnāt find yourself, in 2011, asking āwhen was the last time black people riotedāā¦you have more immediate worries than the latest headlines out of Maryland.[/quote]
I didnāt realize that the city was left smoldering by the actions at Penn State, I was thinking more fun stuff, like pure mayhem.
[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Oh, and no public autopsy. [/quote]
A criminal who couldnāt see Gray claims he thinks Gray intentionally harmed himself, really?[/quote]
Reminiscent of the black guy who had his hands cuffed behind his back who apparently shot himself in the head in a police van. So that solves that.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Not taking the bait, USMC
You like to twist words too much to argue with. Youāre subtle, Iāll give you that. But you are still twisting what I write. Not interested in ādebatingā anyone anymore about this. How you can just flippantly dismiss the actual experiences of someone who grew up in the very neighborhoods being discussed who has had first hand interaction with officers (you know, the EXACT topic on hand?) is beyond me. It boggles my little brain.
But whatever, youāre right, Iām wrong. "nuff said. After all, you have STATISTICS. And everyone knows, STATISTICS never lieā¦[/quote]
Iām not twisting anything and I hardly dismissed your experiences even though I doubt youāve witnessed thousands of cases of real infringements.
[/quote]Example A: I never said āthousandsā. Go back and read what I wrote. Did I write āthousandsā? No? OK, moving on[/quote]
Iāll address the rest of your post in a minute, but come on man. You didnāt type this:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Maryland, and Baltimore in particular, has a problem with LE using excessive force, beating people and regularly violating their civil rights. I know, because I lived there and witnessed it a thousand times WITH MY OWN EYES, not some news story. Iāve experienced it FIRST HAND, would you like to see the scars I carry from those experiences? This isnāt some fucking joke - people are reaching a TIPPING POINT.[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Not taking the bait, USMC
You like to twist words too much to argue with. Youāre subtle, Iāll give you that. But you are still twisting what I write. Not interested in ādebatingā anyone anymore about this. How you can just flippantly dismiss the actual experiences of someone who grew up in the very neighborhoods being discussed who has had first hand interaction with officers (you know, the EXACT topic on hand?) is beyond me. It boggles my little brain.
But whatever, youāre right, Iām wrong. "nuff said. After all, you have STATISTICS. And everyone knows, STATISTICS never lieā¦[/quote]
Iām not twisting anything and I hardly dismissed your experiences even though I doubt youāve witnessed thousands of cases of real infringements.
[/quote]Example A: I never said āthousandsā. Go back and read what I wrote. Did I write āthousandsā? No? OK, moving on[/quote]
Iāll address the rest of your post in a minute, but come on man. You didnāt type this:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Maryland, and Baltimore in particular, has a problem with LE using excessive force, beating people and regularly violating their civil rights. I know, because I lived there and witnessed it a thousand times WITH MY OWN EYES, not some news story. Iāve experienced it FIRST HAND, would you like to see the scars I carry from those experiences? This isnāt some fucking joke - people are reaching a TIPPING POINT.[/quote]
[/quote]
Heās right, USMC. He didnāt write āthousandsā (plural). He wrote āa thousandā (singular).
And if you think that there is no appreciable difference between a singular and a plural, then monogamy and monotheism might be a bit problematic for you.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
The fact (which I have NEVER disputed in this thread or any other) that a citizen of Baltimore is more likely to be killed or assaulted by another āBalti-moronā has absolutely NOTHING to do with my argument that the police in Baltimore are corrupt, violent pieces of shit with a track record of brutality. NOTHING AT ALL. OF COURSE people are going to have more conflict with each other than with police - THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE! DUH! [/quote]
Iāve already explained why I brought the stats up. It boils down to hypocrisy.
[quote]
Now HOW does that refute my point? [/quote]
No where did I attempt to refute your point that police brutality happens. If I have, please quote me. I doesnāt happen to the extent you say that it does. The statistics donāt support that claim.
[quote]
Baltimore is a dangerous place, yes? SO WHAT? Does that give cops the right to beat up young people they arrest? [/quote]
No. Did I say that it does?
[quote]
Does that give them the right to harass people who they ājust KNOWā are guilty of āsomethingā? [/quote]
No, Did I say that it does?
[quote]
āBut look at the statistics of how many people in Baltimore shoot each other!ā I have agreed with that point. Iāve been shot, stabbed, beaten and run over by Non-police officers more times than I have been beaten by police officers. Does that mean that since I got beaten LESS by the cops than I got into fights with citizens that the cops are āa OKā? [/quote]
No, did I say that it does?
[quote]
Is that where you are going with this? [/quote]
No. My point from Jump Street was that the citizens of Baltimore City are hypocrites. They kill and abuse each other and not a word, not a protest.
[quote]
Please, enlighten me, cuz youāve gotten me all confused here. I know, Iām not very smart and I HAVE been hit in the head a few times, so please, explain it to me so I can understandā¦ [/quote]
If you would just read what Iād previously written Iām confident youād know my position.
[quote]
Mock my mis-trust of this government all you want. I donāt think anyone with two eyes, two ears and a brain can deny that we are LOSING freedoms every year with various pieces of legislation, executive action or three letter agency policy (much of it hidden or made behind closed doors). We (our country) are a frog sitting in a pot of water on the stove and EVERY TIME I point that out, you come back with, āwhat are you talking about, the water is barely even hot!ā. Of course they didnāt declare martial law, the violence didnāt warrant it. Not yet. [/quote]
Are you putting words in my mouth right now? I donāt believe Iāve once said anything remotely like the above. Feel free to go through my post history where Iāve talked about reducing all sorts of government spending, how the response to the Boston Marathon bombing was an infringement of the 4th, how we should abolish Home Land Security, etcā¦
Iām not mocking you FTR, I was trying to light heartedly poke a little fun at you and Aggr (who has ingored my question after I matter of factly answered his)ā¦
[quote]
Why do you think the standing order from each of the leaders of these liberal hot bed cities is to ālet them destroyā? Why are they AWARE of approximately 50 or so āagitatorsā with active social media accounts that appear to KNOW and PREDICT that violence is going to happen, but they are not arrested, but when a woman in Georgia threatens some police, SHE is arrested within hours on charges of TERRORISM? It seems to me that they WANT the āwronged minority citizensā to be angry and get out and wreak mayhem on the street. Notice how it escalates and is more organized each time? They are STILL protesting in Ferguson. Do you think the Baltimore protests will just āgo awayā? Whatās the next liberal controlled predominant āminorityā city that will begin to riot?
How many cities experiencing āregular civil unrestā will it take before āsomething needs to be doneā?
All I can do is look at trends, read between the lines of bullshit that the MEDIA spoon feeds us, figure out who stands to benefit from what and ask a few questions. Why do I mistrust our government? BECAUSE THEY LIE. Thatās why. [/quote]
Thatās your opinion and youāre entitled to it.
[quote]
Do you disagree with the fact that our government spies on us and lies to us? [/quote]
No I do not disagree.
[quote]
Are you āfineā with it?[/quote]
No, I am not.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Not taking the bait, USMC
You like to twist words too much to argue with. Youāre subtle, Iāll give you that. But you are still twisting what I write. Not interested in ādebatingā anyone anymore about this. How you can just flippantly dismiss the actual experiences of someone who grew up in the very neighborhoods being discussed who has had first hand interaction with officers (you know, the EXACT topic on hand?) is beyond me. It boggles my little brain.
But whatever, youāre right, Iām wrong. "nuff said. After all, you have STATISTICS. And everyone knows, STATISTICS never lieā¦[/quote]
Iām not twisting anything and I hardly dismissed your experiences even though I doubt youāve witnessed thousands of cases of real infringements.
[/quote]Example A: I never said āthousandsā. Go back and read what I wrote. Did I write āthousandsā? No? OK, moving on[/quote]
Iāll address the rest of your post in a minute, but come on man. You didnāt type this:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Maryland, and Baltimore in particular, has a problem with LE using excessive force, beating people and regularly violating their civil rights. I know, because I lived there and witnessed it a thousand times WITH MY OWN EYES, not some news story. Iāve experienced it FIRST HAND, would you like to see the scars I carry from those experiences? This isnāt some fucking joke - people are reaching a TIPPING POINT.[/quote]
[/quote]
Heās right, USMC. He didnāt write āthousandsā (plural). He wrote āa thousandā (singular).
And if you think that there is no appreciable difference between a singular and a plural, then monogamy and monotheism might be a bit problematic for you.[/quote]
Iām not sure how 1,000 is singular, but fine.
I apologize for misrepresenting your post Angry.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Not taking the bait, USMC
You like to twist words too much to argue with. Youāre subtle, Iāll give you that. But you are still twisting what I write. Not interested in ādebatingā anyone anymore about this. How you can just flippantly dismiss the actual experiences of someone who grew up in the very neighborhoods being discussed who has had first hand interaction with officers (you know, the EXACT topic on hand?) is beyond me. It boggles my little brain.
But whatever, youāre right, Iām wrong. "nuff said. After all, you have STATISTICS. And everyone knows, STATISTICS never lieā¦[/quote]
Iām not twisting anything and I hardly dismissed your experiences even though I doubt youāve witnessed thousands of cases of real infringements.
[/quote]Example A: I never said āthousandsā. Go back and read what I wrote. Did I write āthousandsā? No? OK, moving on[/quote]
Iāll address the rest of your post in a minute, but come on man. You didnāt type this:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Maryland, and Baltimore in particular, has a problem with LE using excessive force, beating people and regularly violating their civil rights. I know, because I lived there and witnessed it a thousand times WITH MY OWN EYES, not some news story. Iāve experienced it FIRST HAND, would you like to see the scars I carry from those experiences? This isnāt some fucking joke - people are reaching a TIPPING POINT.[/quote]
[/quote]
Letās go back to elementary school, shall we? A THOUSAND = 1000. ThousandS is DIFFERENT than a thousanD. THOUSANDS implies, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 etcā¦
Notice the difference now? I NEVER wrote the word THOUSANDS. I said THOUSAND. YOU PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. PLEASE STOP THAT, IT PISSES ME OFF.
And I stand by what I wrote. I have EASILY witnessed more than a THOUSAND violations of civil rights by Maryland police and correctional officers in my lifetime. Iām almost 41 years old. Iāve been running the streetās of Baltimore since I was about 8. I moved out of that area when I was 37. That gives me about 29 years of witnessing police brutality. If you divide a THOUSAND by 29 and round up, thatās 35 instances of police brutality a year. In my younger days, I used to see police brutality several times a week. The cops used to chase us when we saw them beating someoneās ass, and weād lose them on the rooftops of Hampden. Sometimes it was several times a day. Sometimes they violated a group of people (each one counts). Itās easily more than a THOUSAND.
Any questions?
USMC, I posted my reply before I had read your reply to Varq. I accept your apology and Iām happy to move on.
So, if we distill the last few pages down to their essence, if you will allow, the point that we are arguing about (and often times past one another) for the past few pages is that the citizens of Baltimore are hypocrites?
Before we go any further, Iād like to establish that. Is that a fair assessment?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Not disagreeing with you completely, but when was the last time white people rioted ?
ā¦
Please indulge us. Letās start with our continent, and work our way to our country for starters.
And please no references to Boston circa 1770.
[/quote]
V. did a great and thorough job. Iāll add one, though Iām not entirely sure it hasnāt already been mentioned:
Note that ā though new information (e.g. the possibility that Gray self-injured) may or may not change our final analysis ā the black riots in Bmore were occasioned by a dead man, and the white riots in Penn State were occasioned by the firing of a man who concealed the crimes of a serial child rapist.
If you can manage to get yourself exercised about only one of these two eventsā¦and if you didnāt find yourself, in 2011, asking āwhen was the last time black people riotedāā¦you have more immediate worries than the latest headlines out of Maryland.[/quote]
I didnāt realize that the city was left smoldering by the actions at Penn State, I was thinking more fun stuff, like pure mayhem.
[/quote]
Youāre right that it wasnāt left smoldering. But it was an actual riot, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage and people pelting cops with rocks (which activity is never more than a few missteps away from a multiple body count). Anyway, my point isnāt that the two events have 1-1 correspondence; they donāt. Then again, I wouldnāt expect them to, because the Penn State kids were rioting not over a dead guy, and not because of slow-building tensions the nation over, but because a guy who enabled a serial child rapist was fired.
No questions weāre done.
Iāve seen you rail on and on about a person picking 1 sentence out of a page long post and arguing for days about what amounts to semantics and in general something that has zero to do with their point. Yet, that is EXACTLY what is happening here.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
No questions weāre done.
Iāve seen you rail on and on about a person picking 1 sentence out of a page long post and arguing for days about what amounts to semantics and in general something that has zero to do with their point. Yet, that is EXACTLY what is happening here.
[/quote]
No, you addressed it. You wrote that you seriously doubt Iāve seen THOUSANDS of instances of police brutality - essentially calling me a liar. But what you claimed I said was not true. So I felt compelled to set the record straight. If you had gotten your facts straight from the beginning and not twisted what I wrote, then we both could have saved several wasted minutes of our lives.
Itās a pet peeve of mine, what can I say?
Edit: If you havenāt figured it out, my word is a pretty big deal to me. I donāt lie. And when people imply that I do, I take it very personally.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
USMC, I posted my reply before I had read your reply to Varq. I accept your apology and Iām happy to move on.
So, if we distill the last few pages down to their essence, if you will allow, the point that we are arguing about (and often times past one another) for the past few pages is that the citizens of Baltimore are hypocrites?
Before we go any further, Iād like to establish that. Is that a fair assessment?[/quote]
(Deep Breath)
Yes, I think that the people of Baltimore should be more angry and should be fighting harder to change the violent culture of the city first and foremost. I think itās hypocritical to only care when the police act unjustly when the people of Baltimore are far more likely to have their rights trampled by their fellow citizens.
I think that many, not all, but many of the citizens of Baltimore are hypocrites. Many, not all, live off government assistance and do not actively try to better their situation. Many, not all, are violent towards each other and not many stand up against that violence.
Then Freedie Gray died in police custody. Now we have protests, which Iām all for. Anyone and everyone should protest when they feel there is an injustice. However, the looting, the burning, the violence is just a bunch of assholes that do not care about their city (some are apparently from out town like you pointed out). Theyāre just taking advantage of the unrest. They have no desire to make any real change.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
No questions weāre done.
Iāve seen you rail on and on about a person picking 1 sentence out of a page long post and arguing for days about what amounts to semantics and in general something that has zero to do with their point. Yet, that is EXACTLY what is happening here.
[/quote]
No, you addressed it. You wrote that you seriously doubt Iāve seen THOUSANDS of instances of police brutality - essentially calling me a liar. But what you claimed I said was not true. So I felt compelled to set the record straight. If you had gotten your facts straight from the beginning and not twisted what I wrote, then we both could have saved several wasted minutes of our lives.
Itās a pet peeve of mine, what can I say?
Edit: If you havenāt figured it out, my word is a pretty big deal to me. I donāt lie. And when people imply that I do, I take it very personally. [/quote]
I understand, we are very much alike you and I.
And for the record I wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Thousands of times, come on manā¦
[/quote]
As in, I expect youāre exaggerating a bit not that youāre lying. Thatās how I meanāt for it to come across anyway.
Moving on.
How do you feel about the police wearing body cameraās AC?