T Nation

Bad Shoulder Tendon. 531 No Longer an Option?


#1

Hi Jim,
Turns out my shoulder is almost beyond repair if the tendon re-tears.
So currently the plan is to strengthen the other cuff muscles to take the burden off of the perforated one and work on posture during movements to make sure the shoulder isn’t floating around.

So my current plan is to do the “fullbody” template but only the squats (SSB), I do PT exercises everyday as prescribed (all pulling exercises 4x20 5lb, no pressing allowed currently,takes about 30 mins) Then Mon/Wed/Fri the squat portion, should I add any other exercises since the pull and press are out, GHD? abs?

I’ve been doing 531 for many years, unfortunately with the tendon as thin as it is and with not enough good tissue for another surgery I’m being advised that after therapy heavy deadlifting and pressing will be out.

Obviously this means I cant DL or press 531 style. Have you tried any high rep versions of your principles? Possibly 15,12,8 with xx %'s or would this be something I’d have to test for myself or abandon 531 and find a routine more BB style?

Thanks for any suggestions Jim.


#2

“should I add any other exercises since the pull and press are out, GHD? abs?”

Yes, feel free to add in other stuff provided you can do it (which seems you have a good idea of AND that allows you to train without screwing things up too much).

“Have you tried any high rep versions of your principles? Possibly 15,12,8 with xx %'s or would this be something I’d have to test for myself or abandon 531 and find a routine more BB style?” Yes, we have done a lot of stuff by simply altering the TM to fit our goals. We’ve done it a lot with women, too. (to account for the differences in rep ability)

BUT

I’m going to use this an example so don’t feel like I’m calling you out or whatever people do when they read criticism designed to help them. If you want to squat 3 days/week, things have to change. You have to account for this - you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I see this all the time in training and it drives me nuts. For example, here is ONE thing you can do to kind of get the best of both worlds. I would NOT do this all the time - one must periodize (program/plan) their training. I’ve had people want to do the main work AND BBB work 3 days/week. And they can’t quite figure out why they shit the bed.

Monday

Squat - 5/3/1 work sets, shoot for a PR on last set

Wednesday

Squat - FSL, 5x5

Friday

Squat - FSL x Widowmaker


If you are not prepared to handle this, or are getting too sore, your prep work would be:

Monday - Squat: 5/3/1 work sets, shoot for PR on last set
Tuesday - FSL 5x5
Thursday - FSL 5x5
Friday - FSL 5x5

That is just an example.

I’d also recommend you getting a sled with a HARNESS (not a belt) and possibly a sled with the SSB attachment. If this shoulder is “life long” you may want to attack training with some different implements. Good luck - my shoulder is still torn up from an accident and I thought I had it bad. Keep the faith and train what is trainable.


#3

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
“should I add any other exercises since the pull and press are out, GHD? abs?”

Yes, feel free to add in other stuff provided you can do it (which seems you have a good idea of AND that allows you to train without screwing things up too much).

“Have you tried any high rep versions of your principles? Possibly 15,12,8 with xx %'s or would this be something I’d have to test for myself or abandon 531 and find a routine more BB style?” Yes, we have done a lot of stuff by simply altering the TM to fit our goals. We’ve done it a lot with women, too. (to account for the differences in rep ability)

BUT

I’m going to use this an example so don’t feel like I’m calling you out or whatever people do when they read criticism designed to help them. If you want to squat 3 days/week, things have to change. You have to account for this - you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I see this all the time in training and it drives me nuts. For example, here is ONE thing you can do to kind of get the best of both worlds. I would NOT do this all the time - one must periodize (program/plan) their training. I’ve had people want to do the main work AND BBB work 3 days/week. And they can’t quite figure out why they shit the bed.

Monday

Squat - 5/3/1 work sets, shoot for a PR on last set

Wednesday

Squat - FSL, 5x5

Friday

Squat - FSL x Widowmaker


If you are not prepared to handle this, or are getting too sore, your prep work would be:

Monday - Squat: 5/3/1 work sets, shoot for PR on last set
Tuesday - FSL 5x5
Thursday - FSL 5x5
Friday - FSL 5x5

That is just an example.

I’d also recommend you getting a sled with a HARNESS (not a belt) and possibly a sled with the SSB attachment. If this shoulder is “life long” you may want to attack training with some different implements. Good luck - my shoulder is still torn up from an accident and I thought I had it bad. Keep the faith and train what is trainable.
[/quote]

I really appreciate your input Jim.

I’ll do your suggested routine for a 6 week cycle and by the end as I’m sure (hope) I’ll be cleared for some pressing like inclined presses and allowed to db row.

Yes sounds like my shoulder will never be 100% again, I’m glad you can still lift! It really is a blow to not be able to do something you love the way you want to do it.
I already invested in a squat belt and GHD after my second surgery. I just need to keep figuring out how to keep strong without endangering those tendons (I’m done competing so I don’t need to push anymore). As you say, in the end you can only train what is trainable. I just need to change my view of what a ‘workout’ consists of doing.

Thanks again!


#4

Hi Jim, just wanting to make sure I understand the widowmaker day;

Mon
531

Wed
Warm-up sets
5 x 5 with 65%

Fri
Warm-up sets
Then one set of 20 breathing squats with 65%

I bought a harness, just throw in some lengths at the end of squat day?
Thank you!


#5

Widowmakers are usually done with FSL. And no, no breathing squats. Do 20 reps. Breathing squats, which I never new existed until a couple months ago, are pointless.