T Nation

Bad Reaction to HCG Even at 50iu EOD

I am on Test E 20mg EOD.
I feel decent with that.
Typical bloods are:

TT 750ng/dl
E2 LCMS 22pg/ml

I tried to re introduce HCG again. 50iu on T injection days. Same result as always: Lethargy, brain fog, moodiness - life becomes not worth living.

Whats more, my testicles and penis, rather than hanging better, get that shrivelled up and cold look/feeling typically associated with high E2.

I drop it again, and I feel better within a few days.

What are my options at this point? I would like to try HMG, since it is just real LH and FSH, not an analog hormone from a pregnant woman.
But its expensive and hard to get, especially since I am self treating at the moment.

Do any other guys here not tolerate HCG at all?

Lots of guys don’t tolerate HCG well, a typical response is feeling good in the beginning and bad later. It seems your body doesn’t like it at all even on low doses, most would feel very little or nothing at that dose.

So my only option really is to seek out HMG?
I cant let my testicles die. But I also cant function or hold my job with the way HCG makes me feel.

I can’t tolerate hcg either. Within multiple hours/1 day post hcg injection I begin to show symptoms similar to high estrogen: immediately begin to hold water weight, puffy nipples, insomnia, headaches etc. These side effects take a few days to a week to dissipate. You can try 20 mg nolvadex everyday. HMG is likely very difficult to obtain and pricey. You can find nolvadex via online research chemical websites.

Will a SERM really be able to stimulate LH production in the presence of androgenic shutdown?

By my estimation it will vary based on the individual; how high T blood serum levels are, how long youve been shut down for and the nolvadex dose. I have to take 40mg daily to prevent atrophy. That being said, I did locate hmg via a research chemicals website.

IF you’re not tolerating it well you should drop it. As SystemLord says quite a few of us don’t use it because of different negative reactions. I for instance only use 200iu once per week and it keeps my sack a nice appearance that my GF and I like. I agree with having E2 high or very high (for the individuals needs) that this seemed to shrivel or tighten my sack. With my E lower I have a better hang, if you will.

I think for now Im going to have to try and cope with low dose every couple of days. I need to keep my nuts alive. And just work on getting HMG somehow.

I just would like to know why this happens. Am I hyper aromatizing in my testes or something?

If you are aromatizing in the testicles you’ll start noticing AI won’t have any effect on E2 levels, you’ll be unable to lower E2 with ever increasing AI dosages.

You can try hMG. Probably very expensive. If you use a SERM, making your own LH and FSH would seem ideal. Dose should not be high. Test LH/FSH and aim for levels ~4-5. Some do not tolerate clomid, makes them feel bad. Nolvadex can have the desired results and does not have that side effect that some have.

Man I just came across your post. Hcg does the EXACT same thing to me. Especially the shrinkage in flaccid state and scrotum. Plus libido drops drastically. Did you try hmg?

Hey mate
Never tried HMG, it was difficult and expensive to get. Might have an easier time if you’re in the US and find the right doctor. Never made peace with HCG either.
I actually managed to get off T successfully, thank fuck.
Idk what your situation is, but I assume you’re secondary if you’re using HCG.

You could give Toremifene a try. I did a 4 month PCT with it, and it succeeded where clomid and nolva had failed, multiple times.
It was also completely side effect free, so if I didn’t get a successful reset (which I honestly didn’t think was possible) I was going to experiment with using Torem full time instead of Test. So my body would be producing its own hormones at least, just with the help of a drug. Can’t do that with nolva and clomid because their side effects suck bad. Luckily my body actually reset, and T stayed up.

You could give that a go, if your situation is suitable.

Best of luck man.

Thank you so much for the response. My T is pretty low and the hcg was to help with fertility while doing injections. I started feeling good on the trt except for every week when I’d have to take the hcg. My count is now low and we have been trying to get pregnant. I am at a loss as to what to do. I was beginning to get some shrinkage in testicles which was bothersome but number one thing is fertility. What can I do if hcg doesn’t do well with me? There has to be something else that can do what hcg does? Otherwise I’m going to have to get off trt

Given the fertility situation, it would be a good reason to press your doctor for HMG. As far as I remember, HMG is more effective for that purpose. However, I am not sure HMG would be any better symptom wise. It was just a theory I had at the time, since it is genuine LH collected from urine, whereas HCG is synthetic and a bit dodgy.

One thing pro bodybuilders/athletes commonly do, is come off TRT and suffer through the PCT drugs while getting pregnant, then hop back on test after. Its a bit shitty if it makes you suffer depression etc, but it might be something you have to do. Like I said, give toremifene a try. It really worked well for me, with no side effects after months of use. Afterwards you could try dropping the torem and see if your T stays up on its own. Who knows, might get lucky like me. A lifetime of TRT is something you should avoid if at all possible. I found it to be a liability that really weighed on me.

If you have any future questions drop them in the thread or PM me. I did a lot of research back then and probably remember a lot.

Thanks man I really appreciate it. So a lot of people just get off the T and take a serm while trying to get pregnant? The trt helps me quite a bit with all of my issues so it’s so hard to stop but I’m now thinking even beyond getting pregnant with testicles shrinkage what will I do to counter that if I can’t tolerate hcg? I have had other people say hmg may not have same side effects. Would be nice.

Correct. Just consider everything as it pertains to you, make a rational decision, then execute. If it fails, you try the next thing. I think you have all your options on the table now. If you decide not to come off, HMG will be what you have to push for with your doctor.

The only real options are HCG and SERMS As far as I know. They work differently though. HCG mimics LH which stimulates the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone, aromatisation to estrogen in the testes is not impacted by aromatase inhibitors and is why it’s tough to get TRT dialed in with HCG. SERMS like clomid and tamoxifen are estrogen antagonists, and like tamoxifen, actually agonists in certain tissues and organs like the liver. This means they compete with estrogen for the receptor sites in the pituitary and stimulate LH and FSH release which then stimulates the Leydig cells. If you’re really struggling with HCG and getting her pregnant is the main focus right now, look into clomid therapy with your Dr. there is good research out there showing the effectiveness. I’ve never used it alone so can’t say but I’m not sure about long term clomid therapy for low T. it appears to be effective for some, just not as much as T. You shouldn’t however get atrophy on clomid therapy.
As to long term, past having kids, I don’t have an answer. I also don’t tolerate HCG well and don’t like the atrophy or “high and tight” nads. But I feel really good on my current protocol and don’t want to mess it up right now, so I just live with it for now.

Your case is quite unique, I never heard a PCT with toremifene.
I’m curious about your story. How did you develop secondary hypogonadism? How long have you been shut down before you manage to restart your endogenous production?
Do you have any lab before and after?