LOL, some really serious bad technique …Kendo at its finest…
Thanks for posting these.
RE: The officer who made the save.
That is a lifetime of possibilities he opened up for the child, and a lifetime without the nightmares and regrets for those who let him get out of pocket. That may not be TV series/Miami Vice sexy, but it is a huge thing.
RE: The article.
Daesh are pretty much Sci-Fi/Comic book bad guys. They appeal to people who read shit like that story and think it is awesome.
RE: the "Kendo"
Those guys are fucking amateurs. Stake out a chicken packing plant and you get to see the same thing with dull machetes.
Also were they going for the title of lightest impact weapons? Jesus. I know multi hulled aluminum bats make softball and college baseball more exciting because of home runs, but they are just killing the street violence game. What the hell was that pole made out of? I though quarter staff, then I thought balsa wood.
I am sorry to read about your co worker. I am we are better for his time here, and diminished in his passing. Just from your praise I know I missed out on knowing a fine human being. I am with you on the basketball thing though.
God or who is out there, better never give the power to kill with a thought, there would not be a Jihadist alive on this planet. This is truly evil:
This thread was started on PWI:
Anyone who has ever been in combat, a war zone, LE experience on the street, worked in an inner city hospital emergency room, EMT’s for the poor, refugee camps, etc… would never ever have to consider this question.
Train hard, you may be called upon today…
A drop of good in an ocean of evil or a drop of evil in an ocean of good. No matter how you see it, bear in mind that there still is some measure of good in this world.
Doesn’t Boko Haram pretty much translate as fuck everything “western”? I am no bullshit citing my earlier position that these sorry wastes of oxygen and resources aren’t so much anything as “other”. They are using such a fucking different metric for assessing good/evil that trying to describe their actions in moral terms might be a goat rodeo no matter how finely we parse phrases. They are going to always blow the top off my “evil” meter, because they are actively trying to follow a different moral compass.
That isn’t a defense of their atrocities. It is a call to simply stamp “incompatible” on them and get on with handling them. The actions in that article are fractally wrong/evil by any measure I see fit to use. I use the term to describe that you can keep reducing the actions and motivations and just find more evil/despicable shit.
I am however going to admit that they think those actions are the correct and right ones. The monsters that do this think it is the action of the Just, and will bring about the cleansing and salvation of the world. That is the shit they do when they try to do “right”. The above story, that fills me with a certain visceral, cold, disdain for boko haram, reads like the cop saves a toddler from traffic story you posted above to the murderers doing it.
I am not sure I am tracking the link to the PWI thread. That looks to be a lot of naval gazing about the ontology of morality and “the nature of man”. Then it became about gay sex, which is evidently what got highlighted and linked. Does boka haram have the same weird pro bacha boys stance while executing “gays” that ISIL seems to favor? Or were you going for something different?
If the idea was that the article about boka haram or the awful shit one sees in [quote=“idaho, post:711, topic:198222”]
combat, a war zone, LE experience on the street, worked in an inner city hospital emergency room, EMT’s for the poor, refugee camps, etc.
[/quote] answers the “nature” question as Generally Evil, I am going to have to disagree. Firstly, I have to disagree with the binary choice of the question. I do so not because of a relativistic argument, or a nihilist one (I am not proposing that good or evil is only a matter of perception, or that the terms are pointless) I am saying the two choices suck. Look at what you are wearing right now. Look at what you are putting on tomorrow. Notice all that dangerous expensive shit around you? That is because you are planning on fighting something you think is worth fighting, Cops do cop shit, not entirely for the dental plan or pension. Doctors do doctor shit, not entirely for the ever shrinking returns on investment. I am going to argue the “nature” of man is to look around and be dissatisfied with shit. It is, however, also in our nature that in being dissatisfied we do not give way to ennui. We collectively cowboy the fuck up and do things about the shit we don’t like.
My take on ISIL or Boko Haram isn’t that they are the summative argument that man is generally evil. It is that they are trying to change the world into something I want no part of. They are incompatible with my values. They will never be compatible with my values, or yours I suspect. I make that assessment without having to wade into the nature of our Nature(if we even want to claim a communal one).
Train Hard. Stay Safe. Thank you for all you do.
Addendum: In light of the SAS killing the hell out of some folks that needed it while posing as fully subjugated women, could you ask any assets from the UK you happen to deal with what the hell is in the water there that makes Brits so fucking happy to dress in drag? I love Monty Python as much as the next guy but…
I just stumbled into this thread and it is fucking great. Please, continue…
I am glad you are back because your insight was greatly missed, especially by me. I posted the link to the PWI discussion because I thought it was naive to consider man “good” by nature. I don’t know why it showed that response about gays. I am still not tracking well on this new format or else my my government computer virus software is doing some strange stuff.
Anyway, great post and I always listen to good advise. I know that over the years, I have really changed, close to to going over to the “dark side”. My solution to a lot of problems has been boiled down to “just kill them”. I know that is wrong , so, I have a constant internal battle to remain professional (well, I close as I can get anyway:))). Arguing about gays, abortion, government corruption, politics, taxes, gun rights, conservatives, socialists, democrats , you name it, just seems trivial compared to killing or training people to kill members of the numerous Jihadist groups that are dedicated to the mass slaughter of civilians. Actually, if you are in situations where you may die, I guarantee you not thinking about whether someone you are with is gay, or what was the latest sound bite from Trump.
I think the reason I am on the verge blackness, is in my simple little brain, I cannot understand why the “civilized” nations of this world don’t unite and wipe out this brand of filth. How countries with any integrity can allow BH and ISIS to continue to butcher is beyond me. Yes, I am well educated in the Sunni/Shiite hatred, the Persians, the Jews, the Christians, and everyone else and their little religious enclaves. I have live in it for many years. But for the “common good” of man, you would think the Saudis, Jordanians, Germans, and Swiss or who ever, would stand up and say “this is beyond warfare, this is a evil that needs to die”. Hell, you got what, about 182 countries in the UN and all the Sec/General can say is “we deplore this violence” what a fucking joke.I would think the “world” would want to look around and change some shit. Anyway, just ranting, appreciate your response.
As far as the Brits, I have noticed a few oddities, they don’t seem to have the same hang ups or cultural norms as us, but that was off duty. I will try to make some subtle inquires, hopefully without starting a brawl:)) However, to further illustrate your point, I was over at the British Embassy last Saturday and I saw two guys wearing ascots. Ascots? I checked my ID case to see if I still had my man card after talking to them:)))
The last remark about the Brits was for humor and in no way showing disrespect for British troops. In the early days and later in 2013, I worked with them in Kandahar and Helmand provinces. True warriors and many gave their lives and lost limbs supporting us. However, since i was constantly criticized about my smooth, cultural, southern accent, I feel they left themselves open to an counter attack. :))
RE: The UK troops.
They may have warriors to rival any and all, but you can always feel superior about our dentistry. I really, really doubt anyone with any perspective would have taken your comments as anything but good natured ribbing.
RE: Dark Side
This is going to read really bad. I am hoping some of the frequent posters in this thread can relate.
A couple, few weeks ago I was talking to a good friend of mine who is an attending physician at 2 E.R.'s with Emergency Medicine Programs. A mutual friend of ours came up and I said “he just never seemed to develop that bone deep hate for people that you get after working in health care for a while. He has been working as an EMT and then paramedic for close to 20 years and he still wants to be a hero all the time.” My friend looks at me and says “Hatred, whatever do you mean?” and starts listing the dozen or so folks (by action, e.g. asshole who has been in the ER 3 times this month with overdoses and who always gets combative when their high gets taken away) who could have crumbled into dust and he would have been completely indifferent.
The best way I can describe it is that it isn’t hating people. You pretty much have to like or even love people to continue to put forth the effort day in and day out. It is that after a certain point you start to wonder if everyone walking on two legs meets the true value of “people”. If that is part of the darkness you aren’t alone or unique there. I might even say it is required for perspective and clinical decision making.
Off hand (based on friends and acquaintances I have known) I would say that kind of “darkness” seems to make an appearance 6-10 years into medicine, 3-5 years into police, and maybe 8 months into corrections.
I am going to submit that the “just kill them” response is only negative if it isn’t warranted. You haven’t been dealing with an “enemy” that it hasn’t applied to for many years now. If you went back to CONUS policing and wanted to start shooting jaywalkers and vandals that would be a real issue. I am going to support my statement, but I have to get back to work so it may take a bit to collect my thoughts.
Excellent post as always. You are correct, my filter on people is severely colored and the amount of corruption within the governments doesn’t help any either. Politics determines everything, even to the point of “well, we cannot kill that one, if would not look good in the press”. So, help me God. You know, we can trace down and kill all the lower level trash we want, its only when you get into the warlord status, that politicos will get cold feet. “We know he’s bad, but, it will destabilize the providence” Jesus Christ. Its the hypocrisy that killing me lately. whine , whine, in fact, I going post a dig at myself: Feel free to send it to some one today
What a true warrior, all my respect for your dedication and sacrifice.
I am going to do everything in my little battle space to help find and kill this filth. Meeting with the spooks this morning.
Received word last night that one of the targets we had been tracking was J-PEGED two nights ago:))
I am glad whenever someone receives the recognition they deserve. The story about the SEAL was worth reading. I thought the “conflicts with the Pentagon’s report” aspect was a bit funny as well.
RE:Treating a 10 year old as a high value target.
I don’t know were to start. I don’t know much about ground warfare but I have a hard time believing that the Taliban didn’t just decide to kill what amounted to a mascot because his uncle and father switched sides. That actually doesn’t do anything to diminish my opinion of them. I held them in such low esteem that I really don’t think any less of them.
I feel sorry for the child. I am not sure if I buy the “don’t put a gun in his hand” statements. That seems to largely sound like something scripted to appeal to western sensibilities vs the “guns are the jewelry of men” kind of mantra I am familiar with. Is that area of Afghanistan “gentrified”, for lack of a better term? In any event, I don’t see any benefit in the Taliban continuing to take in nutrients.
I am unfamiliar with J-PEGED as a term. Does it have to do with being the recipient of a JDAM?
J-peged==slang for a missile strike from a drone. The drone is loaded with facial recognition software and provided a picture of the bad guy. Just like a JDAM with smarter software.
Only been in that area one time for a short stay, but, what I was saw was like most of AFG, extremely rural. Actually, medieval is a better description. Outside of Kabul Providence, most of AFG is still in the 15th century, especially the Badakhshan Providence on the border with China. However, not matter where you go, you can usually find two things: Goats and cell phones:))
Defending the the Just Kill Them Answer
Let’s start with the admission that we are both more than OK with “kill them” as a specific answer. How many dashcam or bodycam videos have had you trying to psychically force an officer to do just that? We are very, VERY comfortable with the notion that at a certain point it is time to go loud and get bloody. Objections to the “Just Kill Them” doctrine that hinge on killing always being a “wrong” or less preferable option are hereby dismissed.
There is an opinion put forth by others that the decision to take a human life, and the actual killing must always be matters for angst, and regret. We, not the royal we here, literally you and I cannot be of that school. Seriously, the notion that a course of action can be correct, but that it still must be embarked on with trepidation and sorrow is fucking laughable. Regret the circumstances? Sure. Wish it could be different? Absolutely. Have to feel bad about doing what is either needed, or the best option? What manner of fuckery is that? If it is the right thing. Than it is the RIGHT thing. This basically a tautology.
So, the only way the “Just Kill Them” response should feel bad is if you feel like applying it to a living thing or things that don’t warrant it. Some do. And if they do, then we can’t very well jerk each other off about how sensitive and loving we are for wanting to not do the correct thing.
So, are you applying it correctly?
Do They Need a Kill’in
Violence is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is yes.
These are some very special assholes. They really are like something out of science fiction and are massively different than most any other groups currently operating.
I am going to be running through a few points I believe to be salient about ISIL and Boko Haram. Please don’t take this as a lecture. The notion of my civilian, open source educated ass trying to lecture you on this stuff is beyond laughable. I am just going to bring some things up as I understand them. If I am wrong feel free to correct me. If you cannot explain why because of clearance issues you are in the category of people I will believe and immediately cede the point to anyway.
These assholes are both a “State” and a “Religious Congregation”. That is the entire point of ISIL, to be a religious state. Cannot separate the two. This is immediately interesting because states can be destroyed or absorbed, but religions are essentially ideas. You could even make a pedantic argument that at some point you would be infringing on religious freedom acting against ISIS.
Why that matters: The policies of these assholes originate from and support a specific religious doctrine. This isn’t patriotism or real politic All of their atrocities come from an intellectually consistent belief system. This means the actions are not only informed by a theological sense of right and wrong, but because it is God directing the atrocities the Godly action is automatically a goodly one.
These assholes BELIEVE. Yeah, sure that may read as dedicated, or high esprit de corps. There is that as well, but I don’t mean it like that. I mean that they have a self reinforcing value system and they are into it.
Why this matters: Belief is not a conscious choice. It takes effort and intellectual rigor to consider arguments counter to our beliefs, but there is no conscious decision to be swayed by them. This means “education” is far from a magic bullet. The Daesh policy IS the religion. So getting them to stand down would amount to a full conversion to a drastically different religion. That is really difficult to do in a time frame not measured in generations. It may not even be moral to do so. Until then everything is evidence of God’s will. Which is further evidence they need to continue on.
Anyone not with them is against them. And they are the ones applying the rules. ISIL is pretty unique even among jihadist assholes for being willing to condemn other radical Muslims for not being ISIL enough. It is entirely possible they are against the Taliban filth who killed the 10 year old. This is a group that makes the Wahabists(hello house of Saude) look reformed/secular in their willingness to modernize.
Why this matters: They can’t have a state without their religion. Part of that religion is that anyone not of their religion is ENEMY.
They have to kill, rape, and generally be bad neighbors. It is part of this specific group’s dogma. They have to always be at war with at least one of their neighbors and fight a war of expansion. I can’t remember exactly how long they are allowed to be at “piece” with a non caliphate neighbor, I think 7 years before they have to go hot again, but any and all treaties and lack of murder has to be considered temporary/a lull.
Why this matters: So coexistence is only possible if you aren’t a neighbor. Unfortunately it is a small world after all.
Their strategic goals involve kicking ass, and then losing. No really, that is their fucking goal. I hope I am not screwing up the order here but it was build caliphate. Grow caliphate via military conquest. Piss off anyone who isn’t them, until the anti-Christ (born somewhere specific but I can’t remember) shows up and starts leading an army against them. Then they true slaves of Allah start losing ground and getting stomped on until there are only a few thousand (Do I have that right? It is a specific number.) left holed up in a specific city (fucked if I can remember which one). Then Jesus shows up like Gandolph at Helm’s Deep and spears the Anti-Christ. After that Daesh rolls through the entirety of entirety and all is perfect subservience.
Why this matters: Their actual operational objectives hinge on not only supernatural agency, but suffering mass casualties. Any plan that is supposed to “break the back of ISIS” should be the target of derision and contempt. Big picture, if they don’t LOSE enough soldiers they aren’t meeting their goals. This isn’t Chesty Puller, oorah, oorah target rich environment dedication. This is a plan where the big goal is to lose every objective gained save one and suffer 90 plus percent casualties. You can’t exactly force a surrender there.
So basically we are dealing with folks who would have to undergo a religious conversion to simply not try to murder and force conquest on everything they are around. They consider anyone not of the same ideology to be blood enemies that need to be wiped out. Because of the religion angle they are drawing from the true believer pool. Because of the violence angle they are drawing from the sociopath pool. They are very up front about the “We are coming to kill you.” thing.
I would say there is enough information available to make an assessment here. Am I wrong?
This post was brought to you by bourbon and gummy bears. For the best of times.
Train hard. Stay safe.
Thanks. That makes sense. JPEG/JDAM or Hellfire goodness. Well done. I don’t feel any moral ambiguity saying that either.
Goats and cell phones huh? My kinda place. 15th century sensibilities. 20th century cellphones. That has to be awesome.
Excellent analysis, far better than most of the PC crap I have heard from the intelligence weenies. Should be required reading for anyone wanting to understand the basics of this war. I think, I understand the true believers( what westerner really does?). I have trained, fought, and lived with them. Since they popped out of the womb, they have been heavily indoctrinated in the glory of Allah. IMHO, it is the greatest mind control , I have ever seen. They know nothing else, except which team they will be killing for, the Sunnis or Shiites. But, ISIS and BH are just organizations with a huge following of nothing but the worst human trash possible, “movements” that attract nothing but the sociopaths you mentioned. Murders, rapists, sadists, child molesters, etc. are given an opportunity to have free rein over hapless victims, to commit any crime with minimum chance of retribution. Some reports I have been briefed on are far worse than anything in the general media (ex. large groups of girls been lined up and systematically raped by large groups of filth, men being tied up in “piles” and burned alive). That is evil and they need to die, but, it goes on and will continue to go on, while governments wring their hands, and civilians post on Facebook and Twitter about their latest love . Thanks again, great insight.
Thanks for the compliment, but that is kind of scary. I would write it off to the fact the intel guys might not have access to bourbon in your A.O.
I am always a bit puzzled by the folks who feel like they have to mitigate ISIS or BH with the “not all Muslims” and “no broad brush” narrative. Those two groups have made it expressly clear that they are at war with the entire not them world, including the USA, our allies, the countries we are indifferent to, and our other enemies to boot. In order to judge it any other way one has to disregard the entirety of the propaganda, press releases, religious statements(that give guidance for how prisoners should be raped among other things), and military actions of those groups. Everything, including the execution videos that have decent production values it must be admitted, makes that very clear. Anyone can chose not to be at war with them, but they are most assuredly going to have the war regardless.
Really, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Abubakar Shekau could win an award for most honest political leaders. They are right up front with the evil shit they do and want done. They spend money to make sure everyone knows it. They are unrepentantly and honestly going about the business of waging war on everyone else on the whole damn planet. Hitler didn’t do that. Stalin didn’t do that. Pol Pot, Mao, none of those guys were this fucking transparent. We should pass a coffee can around and get a kitty going to buy them a couple of statues of a sexy goat and some Olive Garden gift cards as an award for being up front. I am still firmly in the “just kill them camp”, but if we are going to claim to value and reward honesty in negotiations maybe we should let them fill up on unlimited salad and bread sticks before atomizing them via precision guided high explosives on the trip home.
Just thinking out loud here.
More seriously, let the people you work with know that the P.C. narrative isn’t the only one and that many of us value what they do.
Train hard. Stay safe.