T Nation

Bad Ideas


#1

I saw a couple of videos recently that struck me as being the "perfect storm" of stupid. Like, "they had to know all the right answers to get them so consistently wrong" levels of WTF.

First, a product that was supposedly at SHOT.

http://www.manlyinnovations.com/

For the record I am a huge fan of having a small blade accessible to either hand, or at least support side, but this is sooo not what I mean.

Second: A technique

Strong hand only pistol reloads

I have serious issues with trying to Boot Scootin Boogie my heater back into usefulness if I have, presumably, been injured. Also, every time someone invokes "gross motor function" I throw up a little. Every time they do it with firearms I want to punch kittens.

So, are these as absolutely shitty as I think they are? Or am I missing something?

Regards,

Robert A


#2

Hello, Robert A,

In reference to the knife on the magazine floor plate....that is, hands down, one of the dumbest inventions I have ever seen. The fact that someone came up with a "solution" to what is, effectively, an imaginary problem simply defies logic. There is nothing good to say to say about that device.....no need to elaborate there.

As for the pistol videos....well....I don't personally see an issue with them. I've been trained in both techniques at different shooting and control tactics classes. It's a drill taught for when your support hand has been hit. Certainly, and I think he mentions this, one should seek cover first. However, I can certainly envision plenty of situations in the police and military worlds where this sort of training would come in handy. I wouldn't spend a LOT of time training it, but it's good to have options. It's just a way to get back into the fight.

Sometimes, backup just isn't close enough...or your friends are down also....so you gotta do something, right? I don't see it being a particularly useful skill set for the average person at the mall, but for the injured warrior in the middle of a gunfight? Yes.


#3

Thanks for weighing in. As a general rule I like/love the idea of ways to get into the fight. The specific one shown seems really poorly thought out to me.

Ok, here are the reasons why I think the kick the gun back into condition one method blows goats.

1.) Standing on one leg and kicking is pretty damn position specific. Doing this from behind cover requires a fairly large amount of cover.

2.) He mentions "gross motor movement", but every aspect of the reload requires "fine motor" skills. Even when he gets to the kick articulating the ejection port into the path of the kick requires a fair amount of precision.

3.) For fuck's sake drop the slide with your thumb. He mentions various reasons why using the slide release can be difficult, and they aren't untrue. As a leftie I am understanding about trying to use my index finger. It requires shifting the gun around quite a bit. It is still vary possible and as a bonus is done with one of your most sensitive body parts and little effort compared to the kick.

4.) Is it really a good idea to put the bottom of our foot into the ejection port with the action open. This seems like a good way to introduce dirt, mud, snow, etc. into the action. In that way I think this is a better "mall" technique than someplace less urban/clean. Too much crap in the open action and the next video is going to be one handed remedial action drills.

5.) Extractors- It looks like his boot is slamming into or very close to the extractor claw. Damage that and it is an armorer level fix. The demo is with a Glock, so that may be a bit more forgiving than something like a tuned 1911, but I am still seriously iffy about it.

It looks to me like something done just to be different. Using the slide release works. Raking/hooking the slide/sights on something and running the slide that way work. But they are both pretty common.

OK, after typing that out I would like to change it from "bad idea" to "clown shoes".

Regards,

Robert A


#4

X2 on this, especially the knife, that is so stupid,its laughable. As Mapwrap stated, I have trained in various methods to reload with just one hand,but, and its a big but, that leg kicking is for the professional only....and then, to me as an instructor, its dangerous. Try teaching that technique to a beginner or some third country national, and you will end up with an injury. I have trained under the arm, between the legs, under the armpit, from the holster, from magazine carriers that have the stack up, , etc..all require many hours to get halfway decent speed, much less being able to do it safely. Also, it has been my experience that the type of firearm you are carrying will dictate what method you will use. Its a little more difficult to "drop kick" a 1911...easier with a Glock type action.

The main benefit I see with the training, is ingraining a response to a "oh, shit" situation, where the individual will DO SOMETHING, instead of going into terminal brain freeze.

I am on the range this morning, so, I have to leave right now, but, thanks for posting this and I am looking forward to the comments. be safe, watch your 6.


#5

Robert,

Ah....I see your points there. Thinking back, I'm not sure I've ever been taught to stand on one foot and use my boot. I think it was presented at a training class as an option, but I don't recall drilling that. I have always drilled to simply use a piece of gear, like my pistol belt. Just hook the rear sights or the rear portion of the ejection port on the edge of that, push down, and Bob's your uncle, as they say...even works with nylon rigs.

I do very much agree about simply thumbing the slide catch, but that particular item on a Glock is notoriously small and stiff....better under stress to catch the sights on something IMO, if one carries a Glock.

The term "gross motor skill" is horribly overused, isn't it? It's like the phrase "functional training". Makes me want to neck crank the person who said it.

Anyway...as I said...I have seen it trained before, so it's not new, per se. Guess I just never gave it a whole lot of thought. I'm gonna stick to the pistol belt hook and run through.


#6

Well, you have made our morning with these video's, (goes to show you , we dont have much of a life here..LOL)...Anyway, one of the guys here turned to me after watching and stated " What is that? The River Dance Reload?" .........LOL.


#7

Damn it. I used "Boot Scootin Boogie". River Dance has more punch. I like that.

Regards,

Robert A


#8

Gotcha.

I am actually considering putting some skate tape on the top of my slides to help that along. I would be hooking the sight primarily, but I figure if I am ever needing it any help would be good. I don't think it would interfere with any of my holsters or retention shooting.

As for the slide release on Glocks; in my experience they do get a bit less stiff if you use them to drop the slide. I am looking into an extended slide stop. Any thoughts on Glock OEM vs a Vickers release?

Regards,

Robert A

EDTA: I would love to neck crank the next jackass that wants to tell me all about "GROSS MOTOR" while using a device where you have to isolate the actions of your index finger(guns) to be effective.


#9

I was taught either hooking the sight on the holster or holding between the knees for one handed reloads, but that was for when your slide DIDN'T lock back. You know, because when you're having a shitty day, it will always turn into an even shittier one at the worst possible time. Slide release is faster and easier than any Jackie Chan bullshit, especially if you have an ambidextrous release and can use whichever part of whichever hand still works. And yeah, we devoted maybe an hour total training time to it, mostly to keep people from doing stupid shit.

That knife looks like some video game / bad action movie bullshit. I can see someone pairing it with double pistol bayonets to become the ultimate four-knife pistolero of doom. Probably against Keanu Reeves.


#10

Robert,

I am, admittedly, not much of a gear whore. I run a Glock 34 with a Streamlight TLR-1 HL light on it, and a beaver-tail back strap on the grip and that's it. Everything else is stock. It would be completely out of my depth to comment on a better slide catch.

That said, I know Larry Vickers is a heck of an instructor. If he's making or endorsing a product, it probably does what it's intended to.


#11

Being in no fun land commenting on firearms is out of my lane, but I absolutely agree with you that everytime someone mentions "gross motor skill" I want to puke in my mouth.

Its always by some cunt trying to reinvent the wheel too.

The knife on the magazine is so obviously silly, I cant see anyone seriously considering that. If youve got time to fuck around with that baseplate I'm sure you've got enough time to draw a real knife capable of ruining someones day.


#12

I agree that knife is really a huge waste of time and I would probably hurt myself with it, kinda like running with scissors.....??

Again my weapon is ambidextrous I would just send the slide home with the button and skip the square dancing lesson.


#13

I think those videos compliment each other really well. You give me a Manly Bayonet, I guarantee you I'm gonna put it through my hand within minutes. But thanks to the second video, now I know what to do when that happens. Although I'm not sure what plan C is after I try to hacky sack kick my pistol and shoot myself in the foot.


#14

Why do people feel the need to step out of their lane and make a video of it, and post it on the web. The Knife, I couldn't stop laughing. I say we buy all of them and send them to Iran and include that awesome video set with each one free of charge. I can see it now the WHO would be shipping mass quantities of suture kits and quick clot as part of a humanitarian effort. Sorry if I 'm a little out of line today the lack of sleep is making me a little cranky. But thanks for the videos Robert.


#15

You almost have a complete system here. This is exciting.


#16

I don't exactly disagree, obviously, but there is a hitch. I think the man in the pistol videos owns or is an instructor for a firearms training company. I also think he has some level of military "go fast" training/credentialing. Offhand I think Ranger or Sniper, so at least he has more right to the "gun handling" lane than I do. That is why I am sort of phrasing things the way I am. It looks like at best a way to increase the difficulty of the activity(good for figure skating, not so much what I want when trying to solve "Put the front sight between me and the scary thing and work the trigger" kind of problems) and at worst pure clowns shoes.

In posting I figured I would either get laughs, or corrected, or some of both.

Regards,

Robert A


#17

Couldn't find much on him, looks like he was a staff sergeant in a military police unit at some point.


#18

Means he don't know diddly


#19

Damn. I thought the instructor had some kind of association with sniping, hence the "sniper country" quip.

Not that there are not plenty of dialed in MP's I'm sure.

Regards,

Robert A


#20

I would think MPs would have more pistol work than most snipers, since the sniper is spending more time on the rifle while the MP carries a pistol even in peacetime.