T Nation

Bad Guys

Apparently, that’s me. I am one of THE BAD GUYS

I’ve never been a bad guy before, it’s kinda fun; and I don’t even have to work at it.

I’m not entirely sure what it takes to be a bad guy; I know how to do weird though.

Apparently, being bad has something to do with not supporting the USA, or believing that the USA is the greatest thing on the planet - at least that’s what the people who call me bad say.
I am glad I didn’t mention my disdain for American fast food franchises.

Apparently you can say nice things about the USA, but you’re a bad person if you question anything the US does, because the USA is right [even when it’s wrong].

At least that’s what I initially thought. Then I discovered that once you are bad in one area you are bad in all areas. It’s a very simple process apparently.

Apparently, it doesn’t matter if you use facts,logic and strong argument construction they have nothing to do with determining whether you’re a bad guy. It also doesn’t matter if you completely disagree with other bad people; becasue you’re bad and they’re bad, you’re obviously all the same: BAD

As a bad person I find it very hard living in such a black and white world, so I better practise being bad - roast baby for dinner.

I am certainly one of the most evil ones around.

It doesnt’t matter if I did things like voluntary service with people with severe mental handycaps, or if I recycle all my garbage, or if I drive a car with a not so powerfull engine and try to keep it below 2500 RPM to reduce pollution, etc,etc… because as I dare to speak my mind against the USA foreign policy I am automatically labeled a terrorist by some of the posters here, or just a “bad guy”, by the more childishly naive ones. IF I’m “bad”, then I certainly hope there’s a lot of “bad” persons around.

Sort of like every conservative has felt in the past, huh guys? You remind me of the Hollywood types who are so shocked and appalled that people are attacking them for their anti-war opinions. Yet at the same time anyone who’s ever supported anti-abortion laws, Republican candidates, or pro-gun groups like the NRA has been systematically blacklisted by the entertainment industry.

But when the tables are turned on them, they get all shocked and offended and cry foul. They seem to believe only in free speech if whomever is talking is agreeing with them.

I think people get a little heated in our debates and everyone has been guilty of launching a personal attack or two. Unless you are a mindless sheep without an idea of your own then I feel you cannot be a "bad guy" even though I may feel some of your opinions are misguided. Paul T. brought up an excellent point in regards to our entertainment industry, and I am glad to see the restless is doing his part to make the world a better place.

Try being a conservative in the Political Science department at UC Berkeley. I think much the same thing happened to me there as has happened in America the last couple of years. There’s a silent majority (or at least a substantial minority) of conservatives that are silenced by the political correctness of those who are speaking the loudest by taking advantage of their forum. At Berkeley it was the professors, in the rest of America it’s the liberal news media. It’s nice to see the worm turn now.

Your post is so similar to me. I’m not a bad guy here on this forum, as I don’t really post much, but my logic and reasoning led to a disagreement between me and a former lady friend. Somehow I ended up being the bad guy and there’s absolutely nothing I can do to change it, its fucking wierd! I feel ya man.

two valued orientations…
let me find that quote…

Has anyone read Toynbee by any chance?

Paul T.

I agree with you with reference to the Entertainment industry. But that’s not the point I was making.

What we are seeing on the forum equates to this:

You disagree with the prevailing attitude and thus you are bad. Not only are you bad, but you are also ignorant and of low moral character.

Now, I don’t mean to apply this to the majority of folk on the forum, Scall, for example. But there are others, whose sole contribution is ad hominem

The original post was written with an ironic twist, but seriously, I could do without all the sermonising.

I’m amused by whoever it is who repetively attacks the Portuguese poster for the excesses of Salazar (because this poster is obviously personally tainted by this), when it was only six years before his ousting that the US eliminated its legally enshrined apartheid laws. Furthermore, the US had concentration camps of its own only a gneration before these supposed Portuguese camps (of which I’m not familiar). False righteousness perhaps?

Not only is it an ad hominem argument, but it is a really poor one at that. If you’re going to use arguments of that nature, at least do a good job of it, otherwise you appear twice as stupid.

Damnit McKee…now yer BAD too…

“Bad men are full of repentance”

~ Aristotle

Cupcake, you always have a quote for everything :slight_smile:

I don’t think you guys are bad, it’s just that right now is a sensitive time for the U.S. We’re at war, but we don’t want to be. We’ve failed at finding bin Laden, and we’re trying to find revenge, STILL. The people that don’t support the US are always labeled “bad”, but not necessarily using that word.

You guys aren’t bad by me. You just have different opinions on some things. A good argument has the point-counterpoint style, which tends to happen but then is immediately followed by name-calling, person-bashing (I’m not accusing anyone). If someone starts that, just ignore them.

Yeah, you “bad” guys make good points, but most people just don’t want to hear them, which is unfortunate. All I can say is keep enriching MY mind, because the more I know, the better off I am.

I’ve been to other countries, and I love America. We have so many freedoms that others do not enjoy, and that foreigners can’t and won’t understand. I’m glad I only pay 30% of my check to taxes, instead of 60% in countries like Swedend (I think that is right) Just an example.

All I can say is, keep it up, enrich MY mind if none other, because the more I know about anything, the better off I am. Thanks for being not the mainstream.

iscariot, I don’t believe your a bad guy. You and a few others do put up a good fight and arugments. Although, I can’t say that much for “Say”. I think Jwright said it the best.

iscariot, restless, and the other bad guys. Let me present some of your previous sentences as evidence of your perfidy. I want everyone here to judge for yourself if these people are interested in logical debate. Further, please decide on your own if some of these phrases don’t define the word BAD.
Let’s get started.
Here’s restless:

  1. “But hey, you have the perfect excuse, you can murder as much children as necessary as you can always blame Saddam for using them as human shields.”
  2. “There’s something very wrong with a nation that finds the killing of innocent people acceptable”
  3. “Diesel, it’s a shame you weren’t there on 9/11, a lot of decent people probably died in there and what happened was a tragedy, but if only borderline retards like were there, I would celebrate it for the rest of my life. You disgust me. Really, you make me sick. Couldn’t help this. Sorry.”
    When asked whether he wished diesel23 had died on 9/11 restless’ response was “yep.”
    This is just a few of restless’ sentences. Now you tell me whether he is bad. Whether a person is bad if they advocate the death of innocents who disagree with him. In the following days I will present some of the comments from the rest of the bad people. I will let my fellow posters be the judge.

Rather than spending ~80 billion USD to invade Iraq (which posed an obvious state survival threat), maybe the US should consider investing in the correction of some of its domestic deficiencies, like oh… say… education. A strong education system may not seem important to some, but without it the US will find competition in the international economy increasingly difficult. It is the economic power of the US on which its status as hegemon rests. It also would make these debates more fun.

Well, I knew you’d crawl out of the woodwork at some point US=GG.

So you’re going to go find quotes to showCLAN BAD in their true light.
That should be relatively amsuing.

Can we expect you to keep your citations in context? Or will mis-quotation and selective editing be the order of the day.

Case in point: You cited BAD PERSON 1
as stating the following:

. “There’s something very wrong with a nation that finds the killing of innocent people acceptable”

I’m dying to know how this is bad. Can I take it that you think

  1. Killing innocent people is acceptable
  2. There's nothing wrong if you're nation does it

Where’s the context.

My cat makes more sense that you when he’s trying to explain why he hasn’t caught the rat that lives in our oven, and he doesn’t speak English and I don’t speak cat.

go figure huh?

EM - I’m american, and I totally agree with you. In another thread, I said we should stop bitching about whether or not to go to war, but rather focus on homefront issues, such as the economy.

I am pro-peace, and if war can make peace, I am all for it. I do hope the long-term effects of this war achieve that goal. Right now, many muslims believe this is a holy war, jihad, and it may seem that way. But from what I understand about Islam (which isn’t very much, as I have no problem admitting) only the RADICAL muslims, such as bin Laden, believe this is a holy war. Head muslims (which I do not know the name, I apologize) feel that those radical muslims are reading the Koran the incorrect way. The same people say that Islam is a religion of peace, not war, but yet, terrorism still exists.

I do not think that the war in Iraq is terrorism on the part of the United States. We made it known that we were coming, try to protect civilians, and only target those who target us. I do not want to get in argument about this, as there are many, many other threads about this.

I’m not arguing, so please do not call me names or try to belittle me. I’m simply trying to understand :slight_smile:

To put the whole Islam/Jihad thing into perspective, remember that in many places (like Idaho) there are Arian nation nuts who claim to be on a crusade for christ. Also remember that when they had the power to, the christian churches ruthlessly crushed dissent whenever possible.

(begin tangent) It is interesting to note that the veil was actually originally an upperclass Christian fashion (to show off humbleness and piety) and was only picked up by the Muslims as they conquered Byzantine territory. (end tangent)

Every religion and every society has its nuts. Every religion and every society has its disaffected and displaced individuals.

Modern islam (either Sunni or twelver Shi’ist) lacks a clearly defined hierarchy, kind of like modern christianity. Some members of the ulama claim “jihad” against the US is justified, some claim it isn’t. When one looks closer though, they will generally find underlying motivations beneath the religion which determine their stances. Just as the Popes in the Middle Ages promoted the Crusades for political reasons, many ulama similarly support jihad. While religion is a factor, the real grass-roots support for terrorist action comes from legitimate macro and micro level concerns which the system on all levels (local, national, and international) is not strucured to cope with. Terrorism, and suicide attacks in particular, are not the “first resort”, rather they are the last resort of desperate individuals. The structure of the system in which these people live does not allow the venting of this pressure. If they are able to voice (with effect) their insecurities over themselves and their societies on a local basis, then they are seldom able to do so on a national basis. If they are able to do so on a national bases, then they are certainly unable to do so on an international basis, as their nations are low on the totem pole. Terrorism and insurgency result from profound societal insecurities.

There’s been a slew of books on this topic over the last decade. Most havn’t been anything special, although one should read some of them anyway.

I’m not even sure what all I just wrote. I need the cliff notes :wink:

Iscariot: I believe that what he was stating was calling us baby killers. How is this a good argument? There is no problem with being against the war, but to make statements like this is wrong. And why did you choose to ignore him blatantly stating he wishes for US=GG death, and almost supporting the 911 events while supposedly supporting peace? And this after stating, " Or will mis-quotation and selective editing be the order of the day." Wow hypocrisy.

I have seen people ignore facts, misquote, repeatedly cite biased and questionable sources, while calling legitimate news organizations across the world as bogus. I have seen a person post a link as proof of a government war/oil conspiracy, and the article only had protesters stating they had documents they didn’t let anyone else see.

Debate is ok, but some people seem to be living in an alternate reality. Facts don’t seem to get in the way of their arguments. That is my problem. Not to mention that they keep changing the argument when they are loosing. (And yes they have lost repeatedly.)

Then again I didn’t take the “Bad Guy” statement as a serious statement.

You sit tight in your sofa watching TV at home with a coupla beers in your hand while Saddam poses a threat and brutally murders and tortures his people by the thousands...

...and you call yourself bad.

Get a clue.

Wanna be bad? How about putting your life on the line?

Whats that, aint got the balls?