Back Training? Lateral Raise Shoulder Pain

eyegainweightbig 2011-08-03 15:56:56 UTC #1

I have a few issues which I would like to improve on (One of them is squatting which I will get a vid up soon, but for now its lateral raises and lower back):

1) BACK- Two issues with my back- 1) my lat width sucks and I have to make up for it especially since my hips are wide, and I cant stand pull ups, I feel lat pulldowns in my lats way better, so are these fine instead?
My back workout now is- *Lat Pulldowns *DB Row (neutral grip) *cable row *bb Shrug

2) When I get to the end of my back workout, I am pretty damn fatigued in my back and the last thing I want to do is deadlifts, so would it be ok to move these to shoulder day? Also, I am not into powerlifting, just bodybuilding, so are sumo deadlifts (I am tall) the best way to build a nice strong lower back? whats your favorite lower back exercise?

3) SHOULDERS- I feel discomfort and almost a slight pain in my shoulders when I do lateral raises, so I stopped doing them- Now I do seated BB OH press and hammer grip db press (db overhead press with palms facing each other and arms closer in-feels better on my shoulders than regular db oh press. Is this ok? lateral raises wont make or break my shoulder right? I have been doing broomstick stretches to see if that will fix the problem.

EDIT-tried to post a pic of my progress but cant seem to get it up. not necessary anyways whatever.

wannabebig25 2011-08-03 15:29:32 UTC #2

doing deadlifts on shoulder day doesnt make sense IMO. also sumo deadlifts bring into play alot more legs than a conventional setup. try cable lateral raises instead of dumbbells, they work well as a substitute.

thogue 2011-08-03 15:36:54 UTC #3

sumo puts more stress on the legs and less on the back - sounds like the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.

You could do tbar or barbell rows at some point in your back day to involve the lower back more.

Maiden3_16 2011-08-03 15:42:16 UTC #4

1) Lat pulldowns are fine and imo better for back development than pullups anyways

2) Agree w/wannabebig conventional will hit lower back better than sumo. Why not do deadlifts at the beginning of your back workout? Or on leg day.

3) try experimenting with different lateral raise machines/movements and see what feels ok. If nothing, try atleast adding rear delt raises.

captain_slow 2011-08-03 15:47:39 UTC #5

you've been here since 2009 and u cant figure this out for yourself?

eyegainweightbig 2011-08-03 16:10:46 UTC #6

Ok my gym will have a rack soon so I will eventually do rack pulls instead of sumo. And for now Ill do conventional. ill keep the lat pulldowns! I guess I will do the deadlifts at the beginning of my back workout!

As far as the lateral raises, Ive tried everything from thumbs up, down, shoulders squeezed, relaxed, seated, standing, cable, etc but it all feels uncomfortable in the shoulder joint. I forgot to mention I do reverse pec deck for rear delts though. Maybe if I continue the broomstick stretches it might get better.

captain slow- <3 kiss me

actionboy 2011-08-03 16:27:38 UTC #7

lateral raises are key.

try skip laterals. they are a combo of lateral raises and an upright row.

system 2011-08-03 17:57:56 UTC #8

I do not see any overhead pressing movement? Am I just missing it?

May be reading error on my part.

I would want to pair an overhead press with those lat pulldowns.

Goodfellow 2011-08-03 18:05:03 UTC #9

To improve my back width I did 3-5 pull-ups every hour or so every day for a month or so with 100% focus on getting a good squeeze on my lats.

I've got thick stretch marks on them now.

captain_slow 2011-08-03 18:48:14 UTC #10

captain slow- <3 kiss me[/quote]

what u look like?

paulieserafini 2011-08-05 08:23:16 UTC #11

Hallowed: lol yeah you missed it, but why do you recommend that he pairs an overhead press with lat pulldowns?

eyegainweightbig: yeah like most of them said deadlifts are great for leg days, and as far as the lateral raise goes try and figure out a way to hit them that doesn't hurt because nothing else really isolates the middle delts the same way and over all its a good movement for shoulder health. Maybe you can try a machine or start with really light dumbbells and work your way into using heavier weights. I've heard that you can do those weird rows where you pull the bar up from waist level to your chin to hit them as well, i believe it's called the upright row.

edit: im not a deadlift pro but if i were worried about really getting the most out of it for lower back i would think that stiff leg deadlifts would be most effective, maybe even standing on a block so you're a little elevated and you can get a deeper range of motion. You could also try good mornings, which are a similar concept except the bar is resting on your upperback/traps.

eyegainweightbig 2011-08-05 14:03:00 UTC #12

Good stuff, I think Ill try something similar..a few pullups every workout with a good contraction (5 days a week)

eyegainweightbig 2011-08-05 14:03:43 UTC #13

the overhead presses are on shoulder day, the lat pulldowns are on back day

eyegainweightbig 2011-08-05 14:05:42 UTC #14

paulieserafini wrote:

eyegainweightbig wrote:
Now I do seated BB OH press and hammer grip db press (db overhead press with palms facing each other and arms closer in-feels better on my shoulders than regular db oh press. Is this ok? lateral raises wont make or break my shoulder right? I have been doing broomstick stretches to see if that will fix the problem.

EDIT-tried to post a pic of my progress but cant seem to get it up. not necessary anyways whatever.

[quote]Hallowed wrote:
I do not see any overhead pressing movement? Am I just missing it?

May be reading error on my part.

I would want to pair an overhead press with those lat pulldowns.[/quote]

Hallowed: lol yeah you missed it, but why do you recommend that he pairs an overhead press with lat pulldowns?

eyegainweightbig: yeah like most of them said deadlifts are great for leg days, and as far as the lateral raise goes try and figure out a way to hit them that doesn't hurt because nothing else really isolates the middle delts the same way and over all its a good movement for shoulder health. Maybe you can try a machine or start with really light dumbbells and work your way into using heavier weights. I've heard that you can do those weird rows where you pull the bar up from waist level to your chin to hit them as well, i believe it's called the upright row.

edit: im not a deadlift pro but if i were worried about really getting the most out of it for lower back i would think that stiff leg deadlifts would be most effective, maybe even standing on a block so you're a little elevated and you can get a deeper range of motion. You could also try good mornings, which are a similar concept except the bar is resting on your upperback/traps.

From what ive read, most people use good mornings and sldl for hams and glutes and not to hit lower back. I have always read conventional and rack pulls to hit lower back. what do you guys think?

paulieserafini 2011-08-06 17:02:27 UTC #15

you can definitely feel sldl in the glutes and hamstrings but i mean look at the range of motion and how much tension is on the back but i mean you could argue effectiveness for each of those muscles in any of those exercises because the lower back, glutes, and hamstrings almost always work together and directly affect each other when it comes to strength and flexibility.