T Nation

Back to SS or Move on?

I had been doing SS for about 5 months and was reaching the end of it around last May (stalling out on lifts 2-3x after deloads). I was planning on moving on to the Texas Method, but I took a bit of time off from the weight room to focus on conditioning, bodyweight work, and life. I’m currently back in the gym doing maintenance work because I lost some strength (particularly in squats), but will be hitting it hard again in a month or so.

Am I better off getting back on SS for a month or two or just moving on?

What is your current height and weight? What are your lifts?

What are you training for? Shape/Size? Strength? Something else?

3-4 sets x 6-8 reps for hypertrophy.

But yeah that’s if like me you bb’ing for aesthetic reasons (though I’ve found added strength and stamina a welcome side effect! stick witha 5 x 5 for lesser sarcplasmia or whatever it’s called hypertrophy or if you wanna just get stronger finsh of starting strenght or try 351 or texas or whatever.)

Google set rep ranges. There’s some interesting real science out there. Basically the 5 x 5 hypertrophy doesnt look like you made as much mass gains as the higher rep type also ads water, glycogen, collogen and other things around the muscle (stuff the lower rep / functional stenght myth lifters call ‘fluff’ or ‘stuffing’)thus you look bigger than the 5 x 5 guy and maybe stronger, even tho he WILL be stronger.

But the science says that that added stuff around the muscle fibres is not just fluff or filler and in fact one theory is the muscle reacts to it as a minor threat and grows bigger and all it really is is potential energy (hence use of creatine which basically makes the fibres draw in more water and more gylocogen - an energy potential chemical or whatever.

What were your lifts / progression like? If you’re stalling after 5 months as a beginner then maybe you’re not eating enough.

Or maybe 5 months of the same routine and lifts and rep range has his body adapted and thus the plateue (how do you spell that?)

recent reserch suggests our bodies are amazing adaptation machines and after only 12 weeks will learn how to adapt to the stress from a routine and stop growing.

You need to mix up the exercises or rep / set ranges to shock the body into new growth, apparently unless of course you are naturally gifted or assisted.

And shouldn’t he have had a light / deload week after 3 months of consistant good training? That’s one idea I’ve read. Makes your whole body fully recovered and you go back in the gym stronger.

I’m as interested in replies to this post for myself as I am for the OP.

Cheers.

[quote]leon36 wrote:
3-4 sets x 6-8 reps for hypertrophy.

But yeah that’s if like me you bb’ing for aesthetic reasons (though I’ve found added strength and stamina a welcome side effect! stick witha 5 x 5 for lesser sarcplasmia or whatever it’s called hypertrophy or if you wanna just get stronger finsh of starting strenght or try 351 or texas or whatever.)

Google set rep ranges. There’s some interesting real science out there. Basically the 5 x 5 hypertrophy doesnt look like you made as much mass gains as the higher rep type also ads water, glycogen, collogen and other things around the muscle (stuff the lower rep / functional stenght myth lifters call ‘fluff’ or ‘stuffing’)thus you look bigger than the 5 x 5 guy and maybe stronger, even tho he WILL be stronger.

But the science says that that added stuff around the muscle fibres is not just fluff or filler and in fact one theory is the muscle reacts to it as a minor threat and grows bigger and all it really is is potential energy (hence use of creatine which basically makes the fibres draw in more water and more gylocogen - an energy potential chemical or whatever.[/quote]

You keep posting shit like this in every fucking thread on here, and almost everything you’re saying is wrong.

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Or maybe 5 months of the same routine and lifts and rep range has his body adapted and thus the plateue (how do you spell that?)

recent reserch suggests our bodies are amazing adaptation machines and after only 12 weeks will learn how to adapt to the stress from a routine and stop growing.

You need to mix up the exercises or rep / set ranges to shock the body into new growth, apparently unless of course you are naturally gifted or assisted.

And shouldn’t he have had a light / deload week after 3 months of consistant good training? That’s one idea I’ve read. Makes your whole body fully recovered and you go back in the gym stronger.

I’m as interested in replies to this post for myself as I am for the OP.

Cheers.[/quote]

This also just simply isn’t true. If so, powerlifters would never get stronger since they primarily bench, squat, and deadlift for years on end.

To the OP, here’s my advice:

1- stop taking time off from lifting and getting weaker

2- you can go back to SS if you want, but since you milked it for all it’s worth a few weeks ago, I doubt you could make progress for more than a few weeks

3- Texas method is a good next option, or you could do something like 5/3/1 or another percentage based program

4- what are your lifts? Bodyweight? What were your lifts at the beginning of SS 5 months ago? Bodyweight at the beginning?

5- What did you eat yesterday?

What are your lifts like now? Bodyweight?

It all just comes down to whatever you feel like doing. If you’re tired of SS, and don’t want to do it anymore, then don’t. And move on to the Texas Method, to try something new. It really isn’t that important what you do, as long as you just go and do it.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Or maybe 5 months of the same routine and lifts and rep range has his body adapted and thus the plateue (how do you spell that?)

recent reserch suggests our bodies are amazing adaptation machines and after only 12 weeks will learn how to adapt to the stress from a routine and stop growing.

You need to mix up the exercises or rep / set ranges to shock the body into new growth, apparently unless of course you are naturally gifted or assisted.

And shouldn’t he have had a light / deload week after 3 months of consistant good training? That’s one idea I’ve read. Makes your whole body fully recovered and you go back in the gym stronger.

I’m as interested in replies to this post for myself as I am for the OP.

Cheers.[/quote]

This also just simply isn’t true. If so, powerlifters would never get stronger since they primarily bench, squat, and deadlift for years on end.[/quote]

You are either selectively quoting to troll or have reading comprehension problems.

I’ll assume the later out of kindness.

I never said they wouldn’t get stronger, just that the body stops the hypertrophic process due to adaptation. I was saying it stops extra msucle from growing, which in itself is actually a defense mechanism to threat (repeated strain.)

Shit google it, it’s basic elementary stuff anyone lifitng for a month and reading around a bit should know.

We’ve all seen powerlifters that make huge lifts that look skinny and like it’s impossible for them to do so as well as seeing the ones that were born with big thick physiquesin the first place.

The stench of myopia and mythical truths around here is killing me, I’m off to bed.

I was trying to keep the discussion more general and about the aspects of milking a program, as I’ve read that’s where a lot of the more sustainable gains are made: “Strength in the Bank,” etc. A more abstract version of my orginal post would be something like, “Can you milk the end of a program twice after a month off?” or something like that.

That being said, I have a log for those that want details. In summary though, I’m 31, 6’3, 245, and I’ve kept my bodyweight fairly consistent for the past year and a half, though I broke 250 for a bit. I am lifing for strength right now, not size, and will evenually try to transfer that strengh into more power and speed (not BB). I do need to cut a good amount of fat and improve my conditioning in general, which will be a substantial part of my routine until Septemberish.

Prior to SS, I was doing a routine based on deads, squats, and bench w/ more volume (4 sets of 8-12).
Lifts w/ SS changed as such:

Before SS:
165 shoulder press
175 clean
325 dead (physically, felt like I ahd more in me, but CNS spazzed out)
300 squat
185 bench

After SS (haven’t 1 repped):
Squats 3 x 5, 300 lbs (I made 305 once, but was definately struggling for gains)
Deads 1 x 5, 295
Bench 3 x 5, 185
Overhead Press 5 x 3, 150
Clean, 5 x 3, 195?

I probably could have milked it a couple weeks more if everything was perfect: plenty of sleep, low stress, great diet, etc. However, I don’t ever expect anything to be perfect (esp. stress), and considered the SS cow dry. My diet now is not representative of what I ate on SS, as I’m only lifting for maintenence now, but on SS my diet was only OK… lots of chicken thighs and veggies w/ a heavy carb breakfast, eating every 2-3 hours, w/ no supps. I could have probably used another whey shake a day but, as stated, I’m not trying to get any bigger right now.

[quote]leon36 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Or maybe 5 months of the same routine and lifts and rep range has his body adapted and thus the plateue (how do you spell that?)

recent reserch suggests our bodies are amazing adaptation machines and after only 12 weeks will learn how to adapt to the stress from a routine and stop growing.

You need to mix up the exercises or rep / set ranges to shock the body into new growth, apparently unless of course you are naturally gifted or assisted.

And shouldn’t he have had a light / deload week after 3 months of consistant good training? That’s one idea I’ve read. Makes your whole body fully recovered and you go back in the gym stronger.

I’m as interested in replies to this post for myself as I am for the OP.

Cheers.[/quote]

This also just simply isn’t true. If so, powerlifters would never get stronger since they primarily bench, squat, and deadlift for years on end.[/quote]

You are either selectively quoting to troll or have reading comprehension problems.

I’ll assume the later out of kindness.

I never said they wouldn’t get stronger, just that the body stops the hypertrophic process due to adaptation. I was saying it stops extra msucle from growing, which in itself is actually a defense mechanism to threat (repeated strain.)

Shit google it, it’s basic elementary stuff anyone lifitng for a month and reading around a bit should know.

We’ve all seen powerlifters that make huge lifts that look skinny and like it’s impossible for them to do so as well as seeing the ones that were born with big thick physiquesin the first place.

The stench of myopia and mythical truths around here is killing me, I’m off to bed.[/quote]

I quoted your entire post. I read your entire post. I have no reading comprehension problems.

The body does not stop hypertrophy because you stay on the same program. This is common sense.

Hypertophy is the reaction to the stress, not stopping hypertrophy. That is completely backwards.

I’ve told you this before, but you really should just go lift and stop pretending like you know anything, because you sure as hell don’t.

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Or maybe 5 months of the same routine and lifts and rep range has his body adapted and thus the plateue (how do you spell that?)

recent reserch suggests our bodies are amazing adaptation machines and after only 12 weeks will learn how to adapt to the stress from a routine and stop growing.

You need to mix up the exercises or rep / set ranges to shock the body into new growth, apparently unless of course you are naturally gifted or assisted.

And shouldn’t he have had a light / deload week after 3 months of consistant good training? That’s one idea I’ve read. Makes your whole body fully recovered and you go back in the gym stronger.

I’m as interested in replies to this post for myself as I am for the OP.

Cheers.[/quote]

I think you might have misunderstood something about adaptation. If you do the same sets, reps, and weights on the same exercises, over a period of time your body will adapt and the gains will be reduced. If you’re benching 225 for 3x8 three times a week, you’re not going to experience change once you adapt to it. (The same happens with running; if you run for 30 minutes at a specific pace, once your body adapts, there’s no real benefits other than just burning calories.)

But if you increase the weight, your body has a new stress that it struggles to adapt to. With a program like Starting Strength, which calls for increasing the weights every workout, your body has a constantly changing source of stress.

And maybe that’s exactly what you meant. I’m just not sure if you meant “doing starting strength for 5 months caused you to plateau” or not.

As far as other stuff you mentioned, deload weeks are incorporated as a part of many other programs, just not Starting Strength. Practical Programming does a decent job at explaining the overall concepts behind deloads, supercompensation, shocking the body into growth, etc. Starting Strength is really only for beginners who can progress workout after workout without needing deloads or exercise variation. However, as you become stronger, it requires different techniques to stimulate growth, which is why routines like 5/3/1 are suggested after SS.

Am not pulling this out of my arse.

Step 3 - Training
Changing up your routine is a great way to break out of a plateau. Change the order of your work out, change the days you train, change the days you train each body part, go heavy, do higher than normal reps, change the exercises, use the 4 second negative, just change everything up for a few weeks. Try keeping your body guessing every 3-4 weeks and it will have your muscles growing

I like Wendler’s 5/3/1. I also like peanut butter, banana-flavoured Metabolic Drive and women with small waists and big jiggly bottoms.

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Am not pulling this out of my arse.

Step 3 - Training
Changing up your routine is a great way to break out of a plateau. Change the order of your work out, change the days you train, change the days you train each body part, go heavy, do higher than normal reps, change the exercises, use the 4 second negative, just change everything up for a few weeks. Try keeping your body guessing every 3-4 weeks and it will have your muscles growing

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/toddblue16.htm[/quote]

Just because someone says it on the internet doesn’t make it true.

I’m not here to brag, because I don’t consider myself strong. But I do the same damn exercises all the time, I don’t try to “keep my body guessing”, and I am a lot stronger and bigger than you. There are MANY, MANY, MANY, more people here bigger and stronger than you who do the same shit all the time, because it works.

You just said in another thread you’ve worked out 7 times. So shut the fuck up and quit giving advice.

[quote]Grumpig Hunt wrote:
I like Wendler’s 5/3/1. I also like peanut butter, banana-flavoured Metabolic Drive and women with small waists and big jiggly bottoms.[/quote]

You’re my best friend.

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Am not pulling this out of my arse.

Step 3 - Training
Changing up your routine is a great way to break out of a plateau. Change the order of your work out, change the days you train, change the days you train each body part, go heavy, do higher than normal reps, change the exercises, use the 4 second negative, just change everything up for a few weeks. Try keeping your body guessing every 3-4 weeks and it will have your muscles growing

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/toddblue16.htm[/quote]

I know you’re not making it up, but read that first sentence again. “Changing up your routine is a great way to break out of a plateau.” If you’re not really at a plateau, it doesn’t really matter. Starting Strength does have some built in resets that come into effect toward the end, but eventually that program does end. (Mostly because raw beginner strength gains end.)

A program like 5/3/1 is designed differently, and does not seem to lead to plateaus nearly as quickly. As in, we’re talking years before people start plateauing. Until that point, there’s no need to change up exercises or routines or anything like that.

Elite lifters sometimes actually do need a serious change to shock the system, but that really only applies to a small percentage of the lifting population. Most everyone else can get by with something much more mild.

Also, that information I just told you, it can be found on the internet too. Not having done 5/3/1 myself, nor having completed SS, I’m only speaking from what I’ve read both from the program designs as well as from people who’ve actually done the programs.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]leon36 wrote:
Am not pulling this out of my arse.

Step 3 - Training
Changing up your routine is a great way to break out of a plateau. Change the order of your work out, change the days you train, change the days you train each body part, go heavy, do higher than normal reps, change the exercises, use the 4 second negative, just change everything up for a few weeks. Try keeping your body guessing every 3-4 weeks and it will have your muscles growing

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/toddblue16.htm[/quote]

Just because someone says it on the internet doesn’t make it true.

I’m not here to brag, because I don’t consider myself strong. But I do the same damn exercises all the time, I don’t try to “keep my body guessing”, and I am a lot stronger and bigger than you. There are MANY, MANY, MANY, more people here bigger and stronger than you who do the same shit all the time, because it works.

You just said in another thread you’ve worked out 7 times. So shut the fuck up and quit giving advice.[/quote]

7 times in the last month dickhead. Have been working out off and on and following the literature ‘I hope you know what that means’ since 1995

[quote]leon36 wrote:
I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I read some stuff on the internet, so I must be right.
[/quote]