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Back Pain During Squats

How long ago did you take accutane? Any symptoms of crohn’s disease or IBS?

[quote]Gerkin wrote:

What I mean by training your glutes would be working on motor control, not hypertrophy. You say it’s there, but it may not be working.[/quote]

OK, so how would you go about working on motor control without hypertrophy? Or is that what I need to talk to the PT about?

[quote]Gerkin wrote:

[quote]David1991 wrote:

OK well I guess I should look for a PT then, I’m super cheap though :slight_smile: how much does one visit generally take. Is it covered by insurace?

Also, what does extension based problem mean? and/or what exercises in particular would be good to fix that?[/quote]
I have honestly no idea how much a PT would cost.

Extension-based means that it happens because you extend your spine too much. To quote Robertson: “Anti-extension exercises resist extension of the lower back and core. These could be ball or ab-wheel rollouts, blast strap flutters, or any other exercise where your core actively resists extension.” Check out his “7 Steps to Better Workouts” or Cressey’s “Bulletproof that Back”.[/quote]

OK I haven’t done ab work in a long time. I used to be obsessed with abs but now I don’t care much so I just don’t work them because they’ve always been “big enough” for me, in the sense that I can see a 4 pack when flexing even at 15-16% bf or so and didn’t want to worry about a wide waist. Maybe I should have a session where I work on strengthing both my lower back and abs?

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
How long ago did you take accutane? Any symptoms of crohn’s disease or IBS? [/quote]

December 08 - February 09 so it’s been awhile. No lasting issues from what I can tell. Unless this back issue is from it, but I’ve always had a pretty crappy back. I remember in 6th grade I bent down to pick up a basketball and couldn’t move normally for 30-60min.

When I did tons of ab work on the ground due to my obsession around 6th-8th grade I would get back pain as well, and from wrestling I think. Thats another reason I don’t do much ab work, although I’m sure there are a lot of non-crunch type exercises that would be fine

[quote]David1991 wrote:

[quote]Gerkin wrote:

What I mean by training your glutes would be working on motor control, not hypertrophy. You say it’s there, but it may not be working.[/quote]

OK, so how would you go about working on motor control without hypertrophy? Or is that what I need to talk to the PT about?

[quote]Gerkin wrote:

[quote]David1991 wrote:

OK well I guess I should look for a PT then, I’m super cheap though :slight_smile: how much does one visit generally take. Is it covered by insurace?

Also, what does extension based problem mean? and/or what exercises in particular would be good to fix that?[/quote]
I have honestly no idea how much a PT would cost.

Extension-based means that it happens because you extend your spine too much. To quote Robertson: “Anti-extension exercises resist extension of the lower back and core. These could be ball or ab-wheel rollouts, blast strap flutters, or any other exercise where your core actively resists extension.” Check out his “7 Steps to Better Workouts” or Cressey’s “Bulletproof that Back”.[/quote]

OK I haven’t done ab work in a long time. I used to be obsessed with abs but now I don’t care much so I just don’t work them because they’ve always been “big enough” for me, in the sense that I can see a 4 pack when flexing even at 15-16% bf or so and didn’t want to worry about a wide waist. Maybe I should have a session where I work on strengthing both my lower back and abs?
[/quote]
Isolation helps learn motor control. The glutes work in three planes, so make sure you isolate them where you need it.

And you should do some type of abs after your other weight stuff (some will say do it before hand, but I don’t really like that idea unless you’re working on firing the muscles).

For ART locations: http://www.activerelease.com/

In regards to my comment and the comment of Gerkin, you need to “awaken” your glutes. Like he said, read so of those articles. Things like BW glute bridges, donkey kicks, etc, even sumo deadlifts will help! Those are just a couple things off the top of my head.

I had a lot of problems with glute misfiring too.

[quote]Gerkin wrote:
Isolation helps learn motor control. The glutes work in three planes, so make sure you isolate them where you need it.

And you should do some type of abs after your other weight stuff (some will say do it before hand, but I don’t really like that idea unless you’re working on firing the muscles).[/quote]

OK I’ll start throwing some stuff like leg raises and ab wheel rollouts at the end of my workouts a couple times per week.

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
For ART locations: http://www.activerelease.com/

In regards to my comment and the comment of Gerkin, you need to “awaken” your glutes. Like he said, read so of those articles. Things like BW glute bridges, donkey kicks, etc, even sumo deadlifts will help! Those are just a couple things off the top of my head.

I had a lot of problems with glute misfiring too.[/quote]

Thanks for the link. OK so activating the glutes, would GM’s help that?

I remember thinking if I was ever going to add deadlifts back in I’d try sumo style. I don’t like that it works more lower body than upper back (I think) but it’s not like my lower body (like all of me…) couldn’t use improvement. Mentally it’s annoying to think “OK I’m working my ass today” lol because once it grows it’s not really going to go down, but then again at my size I’m probably worrying too much.

I remember when I did accutane several years ago. I had a constant feeling in my lower back that was a combination of soreness and stiffness; and it did bother me while squatting. In speaking with a few doctors, I was told that this was a fairly common symptom. This probably isn’t your issue as you’ve been off of it for a while, but figures I’d add my 2 cents about the issue.

[quote]MrX wrote:
I remember when I did accutane several years ago. I had a constant feeling in my lower back that was a combination of soreness and stiffness; and it did bother me while squatting. In speaking with a few doctors, I was told that this was a fairly common symptom. This probably isn’t your issue as you’ve been off of it for a while, but figures I’d add my 2 cents about the issue.[/quote]

Did it go away?

About 1-2 months after I finished using accutane the lower back feeling went away and I felt fine while squatting. Not sure about others, but I haven’t had any lingering effects from it.

OK guys I called a guy who does ART in my area but it turns out my insurance (Aetna) doesn’t cover ART so I doubt I would get it because of the price. The guy could still do other chiropractic work so in that sense it’s like I might as well try it but honestly my other chiropractor would probably do the same thing and he doesn’t charge a co-pay.

What do you guys think, even worth the time and money if not getting the ART done? He seemed slightly better in that he said he works as a sports certified chiropractor and works with althetes (who obviously squat) but he also said that even at 135 squatting can put unnecessary stress on the back and “isn’t great for you” so I’m not sure if that lines up with my goals. He also described ART as massage-like, which seems wrong to me as I’ve always heard it’s somewhat painful.

GMs may help. I saw your questions in that other thread. Think about “hips through” on movements like that. When you fire your hips forward, squeeze the shit out of your glutes. I was mostly doing speed sumo work and occasionally working up to about 80% or so with a focus on contracting my ass. Even during your warm up do some glute activation work.

Look up some of Brett (Brad?) Contreras’s work (spelling is probably horribly off too). He is considered the “glute guy”

For your ART, how much would they charge you to just pay it straight cash? I don’t really understand how my insurance works as they said they wouldn’t cover it but they do some umbrella shit where they do cover some of it to a point. Again, not sure if that could work for you. ART is not massage like. Basically they apply pin point pressure and work your muscle through it’s ROM. Hurts like a bitch but breaks that up.

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
GMs may help. I saw your questions in that other thread. Think about “hips through” on movements like that. When you fire your hips forward, squeeze the shit out of your glutes. I was mostly doing speed sumo work and occasionally working up to about 80% or so with a focus on contracting my ass. Even during your warm up do some glute activation work.

Look up some of Brett (Brad?) Contreras’s work (spelling is probably horribly off too). He is considered the “glute guy”

For your ART, how much would they charge you to just pay it straight cash? I don’t really understand how my insurance works as they said they wouldn’t cover it but they do some umbrella shit where they do cover some of it to a point. Again, not sure if that could work for you. ART is not massage like. Basically they apply pin point pressure and work your muscle through it’s ROM. Hurts like a bitch but breaks that up.[/quote]

Yea that’s what I’ve always heard about ART as well, I almost hope he was just lying to get me to come in because if not it seems he doesn’t know what he’s talking about lol. On the phone he said “hm well maybe like $30-40 but I’ll have to see you first”, he seemed like a very cool guy but honestly I’d expect at least $50 or so and to be honest I’m not about to spend $200-300 for it at the moment (assuming 4-6 sessions needed) when I feel fine with 95% of what I do. I don’t know, maybe thats stupid, but I’m a poor college student lol and feel it’s excessive and unnecessary to be paying for that much at my (low) level of strength/development.

Anyone have experience with consistently going to a chiropractor though? As I said I think I may start going to the one I used to, but going weekly since it’s free.

Also thanks for the tip, when I do GM’s tomorrow I’ll work on pulling my hips in on the concentric and squeezing. And thanks for the help in general throughout this thread Nate, I’ve never been into powerlifting much but these 2 threads are sparking my interest.

No problem bud. Good luck with everything.

OK so I went to the chiropractor today, didn’t exactly hear what I wanted to lol but at least he was straight up with me.

He felt my back and right away said “wow, eh…” and went on to say it was really bad, used some term I forget and basically said my pelvis is tilted making my lower back go in, creating some arc. He also said he has a few backs of patients he remembers that really stand out and mine from a few years ago was one of them, and now as I’ve gotten taller it’s worse. Also said it’s different from my dad and my brother (so it’s not like he’s telling everyone they’ve got an awful back or something). I’m going to go weekly and he said although it’s bad I should feel something after a few sessions and if I don’t and still feel off maybe I should see a medical doctor. To be honest I feel fine right now but he said the pressure over the years could lead to arthritis which would suck. I was thinking at least I don’t have a family history of that but actually my dad was recently diagnosed with it.

Also said I should do some ab work and stretch my hamstrings

[quote]David1991 wrote:
OK so I went to the chiropractor today, didn’t exactly hear what I wanted to lol but at least he was straight up with me.

He felt my back and right away said “wow, eh…” and went on to say it was really bad, used some term I forget and basically said my pelvis is tilted making my lower back go in, creating some arc. He also said he has a few backs of patients he remembers that really stand out and mine from a few years ago was one of them, and now as I’ve gotten taller it’s worse. Also said it’s different from my dad and my brother (so it’s not like he’s telling everyone they’ve got an awful back or something). I’m going to go weekly and he said although it’s bad I should feel something after a few sessions and if I don’t and still feel off maybe I should see a medical doctor. To be honest I feel fine right now but he said the pressure over the years could lead to arthritis which would suck. I was thinking at least I don’t have a family history of that but actually my dad was recently diagnosed with it.

Also said I should do some ab work and stretch my hamstrings [/quote]

Exaggerated Lordosis? Or Anterior Tilted Pelvis?

If so, I have a great article that you could find by googling: “fix lordosis” and it’s the first result.

[quote]Cybnext wrote:

[quote]David1991 wrote:
OK so I went to the chiropractor today, didn’t exactly hear what I wanted to lol but at least he was straight up with me.

He felt my back and right away said “wow, eh…” and went on to say it was really bad, used some term I forget and basically said my pelvis is tilted making my lower back go in, creating some arc. He also said he has a few backs of patients he remembers that really stand out and mine from a few years ago was one of them, and now as I’ve gotten taller it’s worse. Also said it’s different from my dad and my brother (so it’s not like he’s telling everyone they’ve got an awful back or something). I’m going to go weekly and he said although it’s bad I should feel something after a few sessions and if I don’t and still feel off maybe I should see a medical doctor. To be honest I feel fine right now but he said the pressure over the years could lead to arthritis which would suck. I was thinking at least I don’t have a family history of that but actually my dad was recently diagnosed with it.

Also said I should do some ab work and stretch my hamstrings [/quote]

Exaggerated Lordosis? Or Anterior Tilted Pelvis?

If so, I have a great article that you could find by googling: “fix lordosis” and it’s the first result.
[/quote]

I don’t think so, might have mentioned “tilted” but it was with my low back so I doubt it was Anterior. I think it was “slanted” or “curved” something, I’ll ask wednesday.

[quote]David1991 wrote:
OK so I went to the chiropractor today, didn’t exactly hear what I wanted to lol but at least he was straight up with me.

He felt my back and right away said “wow, eh…” and went on to say it was really bad, used some term I forget and basically said my pelvis is tilted making my lower back go in, creating some arc. He also said he has a few backs of patients he remembers that really stand out and mine from a few years ago was one of them, and now as I’ve gotten taller it’s worse. Also said it’s different from my dad and my brother (so it’s not like he’s telling everyone they’ve got an awful back or something). I’m going to go weekly and he said although it’s bad I should feel something after a few sessions and if I don’t and still feel off maybe I should see a medical doctor. To be honest I feel fine right now but he said the pressure over the years could lead to arthritis which would suck. I was thinking at least I don’t have a family history of that but actually my dad was recently diagnosed with it.

Also said I should do some ab work and stretch my hamstrings [/quote]

One should always do ab work and ham and hip flexibility/mobility.

Check out Magnificent Mobility.

[quote]David1991 wrote:

[quote]Cybnext wrote:

[quote]David1991 wrote:
OK so I went to the chiropractor today, didn’t exactly hear what I wanted to lol but at least he was straight up with me.

He felt my back and right away said “wow, eh…” and went on to say it was really bad, used some term I forget and basically said my pelvis is tilted making my lower back go in, creating some arc. He also said he has a few backs of patients he remembers that really stand out and mine from a few years ago was one of them, and now as I’ve gotten taller it’s worse. Also said it’s different from my dad and my brother (so it’s not like he’s telling everyone they’ve got an awful back or something). I’m going to go weekly and he said although it’s bad I should feel something after a few sessions and if I don’t and still feel off maybe I should see a medical doctor. To be honest I feel fine right now but he said the pressure over the years could lead to arthritis which would suck. I was thinking at least I don’t have a family history of that but actually my dad was recently diagnosed with it.

Also said I should do some ab work and stretch my hamstrings [/quote]

Exaggerated Lordosis? Or Anterior Tilted Pelvis?

If so, I have a great article that you could find by googling: “fix lordosis” and it’s the first result.
[/quote]

I don’t think so, might have mentioned “tilted” but it was with my low back so I doubt it was Anterior. I think it was “slanted” or “curved” something, I’ll ask wednesday. [/quote]

An anteriorly tilted pelvis will cause your lower back to curve.

[quote]Cybnext wrote:

[quote]David1991 wrote:

[quote]Cybnext wrote:
Exaggerated Lordosis? Or Anterior Tilted Pelvis?

If so, I have a great article that you could find by googling: “fix lordosis” and it’s the first result.
[/quote]

I don’t think so, might have mentioned “tilted” but it was with my low back so I doubt it was Anterior. I think it was “slanted” or “curved” something, I’ll ask wednesday. [/quote]

An anteriorly tilted pelvis will cause your lower back to curve.[/quote]

I asked him today and he said it was “swayback”. I googled it and this came up: “Excessive or hyperlordosis is commonly referred to as swayback or saddle back.” So it looks like you were right. Is this the article you mentioned? http://stronglifts.com/lordosis-why-it-causes-lower-back-pain-how-to-fix-it/

I really wouldn’t say I have lower back pain. Not even much pain in general actually, I just don’t want it to be a problem (or continue to get that weird pain when I squat “heavy”). My feet are pronated, mostly my right foot which apparently screws up my biomechanics… If I look down my feet are kind of like !/ instead of !! been like that since I can remember looking down at a scale and seeing my feet (7th grade?)

Back hurt today even before squatting. Tried to do it anyway and got 5x220, compared to 10x220 last time. Decided to do 1 set of front squats and got 10x145 pretty easily (wow…lol). I think I’ll just stick with front squats and see how those go :confused: