T Nation

Back/Delts


#1


Wanted to get some input on my back/delts as well any advice on how to get thicker, wider lats and wider lateral delts.

I hit back once a week. For lats, I do 3 sets of pull-ups and 4-5 sets of wide grip pulldowns for lats (with barbell rows, seated rows, close grip, etc..).

I do 3-4 sets of lateral DB raises on chest day and then on delts day, 3-4 sets of lateral DB raises with 3-4 sets of lateral machine or cable raises (with BB/DB press, front and rear raises and shrugs).

Thanks for any input!


#2

lats


#3

Boy, you need some heavy ass rows!

=)

1-arm BB rows, meadows rows, DB rows, smith rows, T-bar rows

What exactly are you doing for rear delts and traps?


#4

You need some heavy rows and you need to be doing back work more than once a week if you want to get a big back. If thw focus is lats, do lat work every time, but train the back at least 2x a week if thats ypur priority. Unless your volume on back day leaves you too sore to do it


#5

You could try a heavy day and a volume day, heavy day you pick a couple of (rowing type) exercises & goa for 2 or three heavy sets ~5 reps the other you do, say, 5 exercises (eg BB row, chest supported row, low pully row, WG pulldown and narrow grip pulldown) for 4 or 5 sets of 8-12.


#6

Barbell rows are my favorite exercise for back! I do them first for every back workout (after deadlifts).. 135x12, 185x10, 225x10, 245x8. Back at 45deg angle, good form throughout, I could probably go a little heavier.

I hit rear delts with rear delt DB raises with back, 4 sets of 15. Then on shoulder day, I usually do DB raises lying face down on an incline bench (mountaindog) and either rear delt fly machine or DB raises again, all 4 sets of 15. I've been doing these right after presses to make sure I'm fresh, I've always done rear delts at the end (or not at all).

Traps I do on shoulder day.. heavy neutral grip shrugs on a pulley-machine-thing and BB shrugs. I like to go high reps on traps, 15-20 reps so I don't go heavier than 275 but I probably could. If I remember to, I'll do some light DB shrugs on chest day.


#7

I could probably pull off hitting back twice a week. I've been wanting to do all bodyparts twice a week lately but I never feel like I got a great workout unless I destroy that bodypart and so it's hard to do a few days later. But I could fit in an extra back/delts day while hitting everything else once a week, those are the two bodyparts that generally aren't sore the next day (which could explain my issue).


#8

Hey OP

My suggestion is in line with everyone else to hit some heavy rows. Personally I would do barbell rows.

I have a fairly decently developed back and here is what I do if you care.

I start out with pull ups I do five sets ranging from 10-15 and sometimes 20 reps. I prefer 12 reps but some days I feel so much stronger and I bang out a bunch more reps. End goal is 50 pull ups. This is more like a warm-up. Alternating between my pull up sets I do high pulls. I became a big fan of these after CT mentioned them. They are awesome try them. I do one warm up and three working sets. After those two exercises I will do dumbell shrugs to finish off my traps. Three sets of whatever weight is good for you. I normally superset this as well with either lat pull down, or close grip lat pulldown ( with that row machine grip thing) or bb row. I consistently alternate between these three. I finish my work out off with usually some high rep pull to really just maximize the pump as I feel this facilitates growth.

So for back
5 sets pull ups ten reps
supersetted with
high pulls 1 warm-up 3 working sets
followed by
db shrugs 3 working sets
Barbell row three sets
lat pull down three sets of 20 to maximize blood flow

With db shrugs I like to hold them in something of a pronated grip as opposed to holding them parallel by my sides which most people do.
I know you weren't really asking for all this but maybe you will find something from it usefull.

As for your delts You could never have them too big. Mine for a while were disappearing and looked very similar to yours. I did your typical delt work out with db overhead presses mainly followed by lat raises of 10 reps then plate raises. To be honest fuck all of that. I had the shittiest progress with that. I cut all of that shit out. OHP is over fucking rated in my opinion for growing great delts. Actually maybe not but for me right now it is. It was causing some shitty shoulder problems.

I watched some videos and heard Rich Piana say that he will do multiple sets with reps as high as 40-50 when he does lateral raises. I literally thought "WTF" no way that would work. Well I tried it and my delts have started blowing up. I do not do ovp at all anymore.

So my main point is do lateral raises high reps like 40 30 20 10 10. I would do that randomly like three times a week and my delts are really starting to pop out again.

Fuck I wrote a lot.


#9

Haha, thanks for the input. Yeah, I've been seeing on here a lot that guys are going away from overhead presses for Delts. Mine are way underdeveloped obviously, I'll definitely give your method a shot. I'm gonna throw in those high pulls too after hearing good things a bout them. Thanks again!


#10

So in case anyone cares, here was the back workout I did earlier today...

Bodyweight Pullups - 12, 10, 10, 8
BB Rows - 135x15 (warmup), 185x12, 205x10, 225x10, 225x10, 205x10
DB Rows - 70x12, 85x12, 95x10,100x10 (haven't done these in a while, felt good)
Seated Cable Rows (close grip) - 140x12, 160x12, 180x10, 200x10 (pump felt the best after this workout)
supersetted with Straight Lat Pulldowns - 4 sets of 65x12
Widegrip Pulldowns - 60x15, 70x12, 80x10, 80x10 (stayed vertical, bar down to chest... better than swinging right?)
Closegrip Pulldowns - 60x12, 60x10, 70x10, 70x10
Single Arm Machine Rows - 90x12, 115x10, 115x10 (only chest supported row machine in the gym)
supersetted with Rear Delt Cable Flies (overhead) - 15x12 x 3 sets (first time doing these, felt pretty good)
Rear Delt DB Flies - 25x25, 25x20, 30x20
supersetted with BB Shrugs - 225x15, 225x15, 275x12
Face Pulls - 45x20, 45x20, 45x15, 45x15

Was this workout overkill? Probably... I was absolutely DEAD by the end of it, more than usual. It might have had something to do with the 3 hours of sleep I got last night (first day back to work after a long break, took a 2 hour nap before going to the gym) and I was tired even at the beginning at the workout where I usually have pretty good energy. But regardless I probably did one too many row exercises (I was intent on rowing the shit outta my back after the comments) and one too many rear delt exercises. I planned on doing high pulls at the end of the workout and possibly deadlifts but there was no way, I was exhausted. Probably will cut 2 workouts out next time unless I feel better, which means it was probably the lack of sleep.

Please feel free to critique the workout!! Also, I have delts in a couple days and I plan on destroying them with high rep raises per ARod's advice, probably won't be doing any presses except maybe a burnout at the end. Will also do more shrugs and high pulls. Any advice on that is appreciated as well.

Thanks for the help!


#11

I'm not an expert in bodybuilding, but this is really too much.
This type of training you do not build muscle, you're destroying it.
Do just 2-3 exercises,deads,rows and pullups.


#12

I have the faintest suspicion that you recruit more of your biceps then you'er back with those barbell rows. 225 is not super heavy but it is not exactly light especially if you are doing great form. I only mention because your bb row is not really in line with the amount you are doing on the lat pulldown. Granted I do not know which brand machine you are using. That work out is really way to much volume. I used to be a volume whore and it undeniably hampered my progress. More is not always better.

If you are attempting a body building split you need to be meticulous in you'er approach. I would not dead lift every week. If you have can dead lift heavy I would do it two maybe every three weeks. I feel like you can focus on specific muscle groups rather then dl every week which is so taxing.

If you are doing both db rows and bb rows in the same workout you are not doing them with the intensity you should be doing. Or you are doing one well and the other half ass and might not as well do it in the first place.

So you yeah reduce your volume.