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Back and Biceps Same Day

does anybody train back and biceps on the same day? i am asking only because i know people do but i dont understand why.

i tried that one time when i first started lifting and i quickly learned that it is not ideal. i thought it would be efficient. i did some pullups, some pulldowns. i did some seated rows with less than optimal weight. when i got to biceps i could barely curl anything.

[quote]eremesu wrote:
does anybody train back and biceps on the same day? i am asking only because i know people do but i dont understand why.
i tried that one time when i first started lifting and i quickly learned that it is not ideal. i thought it would be efficient. i did some pullups, some pulldowns. i did some seated rows with less than optimal weight. when i got to biceps i could barely curl anything.

[/quote]

I like to do a few sets of barbell curls just for extra volume, nothing crazy

Then you’re using too much bis on back exercises

=)

I train back/hams

To avoid over-stressing the biceps tendon. Don’t think of it as working Back & Biceps on the same day; rather, think of it as a way to give the (relatively puny) biceps tendons an extra day of recovery time. As someone who is s/p surgical repair of a ruptured biceps tendon secondary to years of overstressing them (due in part to an imprudent bodypart split in which back and biceps were on different days), I can vouch for the wisdom of this grouping.

what a terrible allegation to say i use my biceps too much. i always choose exercises to get the most targeting.
i’d like to see how much you curl after a back workout

try it more than once, you’ll adapt

[quote]eremesu wrote:
what a terrible allegation to say i use my biceps too much. i always choose exercises to get the most targeting.
i’d like to see how much you curl after a back workout[/quote]

Dude, sensitive much? Lol. You indirectly said the exactly same thing I did when you said you can hardly curl anything after! Inductive reasoning would say, hey, your biceps are toasted. Just trying to help.

I train back/bis as well, to address your OP. I personally find it to be more optimal, as I need to spend much less time if any doing warm up sets and load is always better as well as MMC on bis.

What is your definition of “optimal?”

I keep arm day few days from chest and back.

And I do like 2 sets for tri’s after chest and same for bicep after back…

Arms kinda get a double workout…been working great for me.

I have been doing 1-2 exercises for biceps, at the end of my back day.
Whilst also doing 1-2 exercises for triceps at the end of my chest day.

I started doing this about 2-3 months ago, In addition to my arm day, later on in the week.
My arm day would have a lot more volume. (Don’t count sets or reps on arm day).

Whereas the additional sets on back day would usually have one heavier movement to gauge my strength and a smaller movement, like concentration curls to get a better pump.

This has been successful and spurred more growth in my arms.
I personally believe training biceps with triceps is way more beneficial for growth.
As you can gain even greater pumps. Which I believe, helps increase size.

ronnie coleman does, why dont you? :slight_smile:

i dont think its the wisest idea. i always liked training biceps after pushing muscles like chest and back.

alternatively, i like training arms on a separate day starting with triceps.

biceps will be too fatigued after heavy rows and pulldowns IMO.

[quote]Cron391 wrote:
I keep arm day few days from chest and back.

And I do like 2 sets for tri’s after chest and same for bicep after back…

Arms kinda get a double workout…been working great for me.[/quote]

I train something for arms lately almost every training session. I use that as my exercise in between the primary muscle group I am working on just to increase the amount of work done in one session. This has helped me lose more body fat without even trying (the cycling of exercises during a session).

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Cron391 wrote:
I keep arm day few days from chest and back.

And I do like 2 sets for tri’s after chest and same for bicep after back…

Arms kinda get a double workout…been working great for me.[/quote]

I train something for arms lately almost every training session. I use that as my exercise in between the primary muscle group I am working on just to increase the amount of work done in one session. This has helped me lose more body fat without even trying (the cycling of exercises during a session).[/quote]

PX is this a new way of training for you to do these sets in between the primary sets? Apart from the leaning aspect is this something that would do anything to stimulate more growth? I would guess that you would have to keep the intensity so far in check that it wouldnt stimulate the muscle sufficiently to gain any mass but is there a way to configure the exercises differently if mass gain was your goal? I am quite interested in this approach

[quote]steven alex wrote:

PX is this a new way of training for you to do these sets in between the primary sets?[/quote]

This has been the largest change in my workouts since I was carrying more body fat. It makes me lose body fat without even much attention to “clean diet”.

[quote]

Apart from the leaning aspect is this something that would do anything to stimulate more growth? [/quote]

The training more often aspect, yes…not the “doing exercises in between other exercises to help with conditioning”

I would rest more of muscle gain alone was my goal. I rest MUCH less between sets lately. I just did chest today. In between each set I was doing arms…or calves.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]steven alex wrote:

PX is this a new way of training for you to do these sets in between the primary sets?[/quote]

This has been the largest change in my workouts since I was carrying more body fat. It makes me lose body fat without even much attention to “clean diet”.

[quote]

Apart from the leaning aspect is this something that would do anything to stimulate more growth? [/quote]

The training more often aspect, yes…not the “doing exercises in between other exercises to help with conditioning”

I would rest more of muscle gain alone was my goal. I rest MUCH less between sets lately. I just did chest today. In between each set I was doing arms…or calves.[/quote]

What do you think of complexes for conditioning purposes?

[quote]steven alex wrote:

What do you think of complexes for conditioning purposes?[/quote]

Define “complexes”.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]steven alex wrote:

What do you think of complexes for conditioning purposes?[/quote]

Define “complexes”.[/quote]
The sort that Alwyn Cosgrove outlines I am sure they are more for conditioning but in an article on here he mentions people gaining muscle on it ( most likely minimal ). Also didnt a famous old time bodybuilder use a kind of circuit training that had him doing circuits that kept his heart rate up through out?

[quote]steven alex wrote:

The sort that Alwyn Cosgrove outlines[/quote]

I don’t follow the current fitness writers so I would need more explanation.

There have been a few. I think even Oliva did that for a while but I forgot the name of the other that was known for mega-rep workouts.

[quote]eremesu wrote:
does anybody train back and biceps on the same day? i am asking only because i know people do but i dont understand why.[/quote]
Like EyeDentist said, it has a lot to do with maximizing biceps recovery time. The thought process being, “My bis get a little work on back exercises, so I might as well thrash them after and finish them off, then I’ll get to 'em again next week.”

As you can tell from the replies, some folks like it/respond well and some don’t. I know that if I do train back and biceps on the same day, I’ll purposely use straps on the last back exercise to minimize grip/forearm/bi involvement and “kickstart” a little more rest for bis before they’re in the spotlight.

Obviously your strength will be down compared to training them fresh, but over time, did you notice any improved growth or recovery? That is the point of this kind of split. And, as was said, you do adapt after a while.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]steven alex wrote:
The sort that Alwyn Cosgrove outlines[/quote]
I don’t follow the current fitness writers so I would need more explanation.[/quote]
Cosgrove hasn’t written here since 2009. :wink: Anyhow, complexes are basically taking one weight (usually a barbell) and doing a “giant set” of several different exercises with little to no rest between them while using that same weight for everything. For example, all with a 65-pound bar: Barbell row 1x8, Romanian deadlift 1x8, upright row 1x8, overhead press 1x8, back squat 1x8. Rest a minute or two, then repeat for several total sets.

[quote]

There have been a few. I think even Oliva did that for a while but I forgot the name of the other that was known for mega-rep workouts.[/quote]
Oliva started off working with Mr. USA/Mr. America/Mr. Universe Bob Gajda, who was a big advocate of peripheral heart action training - big circuits alternating upper body exercises with lower body exercises. I believe Serge Nubret also used fairly high reps, but not necessarily circuits. I’m sure there have been others too.

I’ve been pairing those two muscle groups together for the last 20 years and never had an issue. A big part of it for me can be boiled down to two key points:

1- Being able to FEEL my back muscles contract without stressing (excessively tiring) my biceps.
2- Realizing that you’ll never be able to completely take your biceps out of your back work, keeping a lid on bicep work volume.

Not that there’s anything wrong with pairing bis with tris as an ‘arm day’, but it’s really going to come down to what approach you can make work for you. My arms were always a strength, physique wise, so hitting relatively smaller muscles (biceps and triceps) after larger ones (chest, shoulders, back) just made sense. Luckily, it worked for me. You’ll find plenty of other people who did things differently and experienced excellent results as well.

S