Very interesting post. I have borderline low T 450ish, but have been having symptoms that match the low T symptom list.
This shows the importance of getting the full blood work done.
I am wondering why you want to move to injections when the clomid had you at like 750ish total?
Also, I am interested in hearing what if any difference you had at the different levels you have been at while controlling estrogen.
Some good questions.
I never intended to be on Clomid long term. My doc and I tried it to see if it would kick start my body’s own natural production. It worked, but it appears I’m falling back to my pre-treatment levels. Need to have another set of labs drawn to confirm. Also, when I hit the 700’s my E2 went into the 40’s and I got pretty sick. My only option was to drop the dose, however my T then falls and I start to lose any upside benefit.
Man, anytime my E2 went above the mid 30’s I was hit with really bad side effects. Honestly, I’m not sure if it’s E2, Clomid, Test too high, but not fun at all.
I have more testing to do before I commit to anything myself. For now I am ordering labs on my own (I have a feeling that at 450ish test I will be dismissed by most doctors).
I do have some suspicion that my E is high naturally (occasional sore nipples).
Sucks to have to fork over money to get the blood work, but I guess it is worth it.
Just got back from my Dr. appointment. After talking through everything I’m still not sure what to do. We agreed it’s probably good to take a break from Clomid, and now I’m left with two options: 1) Start injections, or 2) Retake labs in 30 days to see what my body is doing?
Option 1 is obviously attractive. I’ve been at this for about 1.5 years. I’m tired and want a sustainable solution. Pretreatment I was below 300, and even if my body has kicked on a bit I’m still at the bottom of the range and doubt I’m magically going to jump to the 800’s etc.
Option 2 seems reasonable. However, what’s it really going to prove? Am I just wasting another 30 days? I cut my cholesterol in half, can I double my T? Do I just suck it up…30 days isn’t much longer to wait.
If anyone has thoughts on the labs, or recommendations on next steps let me hear it.
I feel like you already waited long enough to see if clomid worked but on the other hand your levels at this moment are not that horrible if you feel ok wait a little longer.
Make give it 2 more weeks and retake labs as I suggested already above. If you start injections now, you may say later … What if the clomid worked if I gave it more time?
After discussions with my wife and Dr. I decided to return to injections. I’m injecting 50mg subq over my quad twice a week using 29g 1/2" .50ml insulin pins. I am not using HCG or an AI as I want to solve for one variable at a time. I’ll reassess after my next labs which will be in 5 weeks.
I’ve only injected twice so far and feel absolutely nothing. Previously when I injected 100mg once a week I’d get the expected rush 2-3 days after the injection. Honestly, I loved the feeling and was hoping to have a similar experience this time around. So far it appears subq is way smoother, but we’ll see how it goes once I hit steady state around 40 days in.
Let me know if you have any questions or if there’s anything I can help with.
Hey @azwildcats
Did you not get more labs just before going back to injections?
Would of been interesting to see if your Test levels remained at that level or maybe even went up.
Good luck with the injections though 
No, I did not get more labs. This was a personal decision, with input and approval from both my wife and Dr.
While on Clomid the highest my natural test got without negative sides was ~600. After four weeks of discontinuing I had dropped back to the 400’s, which is a 33% decrease. Maybe I could have stayed around that mark without treatment, but the general consensus was I would most likely settle back to pre-treatment levels.
At that point I made a decision and stopped the discussions. Over the past 1.5 years I’ve worked hard to achieve optimal health. I’ve dropped 50 pounds through diet and exercise, slashed my cholesterol, stabilized mood & depression, and diligently followed through with my TRT plan. There are simply too many interrelated variables to solve for, and rather than spend another 1.5 years going down an inevitable rabbit hole I decided it’s time to feel great, and live well. I still need time to dial in my new protocol, but I’m committed and all in for the long game.
We hear stories about guys feeling amazing during the first 2-3 weeks on TRT. I am having the exact same experience. Wow, I feel great! Everything is better, I seriously feel like a new person. I feel better than I ever have, and soooo much better than the best I felt while on Clomid.
However, for guys that are just getting started please realize that initial benefits like I’m experiencing are most likely temporary. Most likely over the next few weeks the initial wave will subside and E2 management will need to be introduced. It’s important to remember our goal is long term optimal health, and to not get discouraged once the initial rush wears off. Stick to your treatment, accept the good and bad, and remember to stay committed to the long game.
If you are a lifter you are in for a real treat over the next 6 months or so never mind the physical changes. New person is a good way to put it and a lot of the old you you once were (if not always low T). Stay the course and the rewards will come.
I’ve been uncomfortable injecting with .5ml syringes. I have semi large hands and I have found the small size difficult to handle. I especially don’t like pulling the plunger all the way out and having to press so hard during the injection. It just feels flimsy and like I could snap the damn thing in half if I wasn’t careful. That obviously wouldn’t happen, but you get the point.
Any way I tried a 29g 1ml syringe and was instantly more comfortable and confident. Felt much more stable. I had a much better grip, and it felt like I didn’t have to press as hard during the injection. Just my experience, but you may want to consider trying it out to see which you prefer.
Good luck.
Injections are going great. The 1ml syringe is so much better for me. I’ve also tried and the quad and stomach. For me the stomach stings a bit but is an easier location to inject. So far so good.
The only downside I’m experiencing is a tight scrotum. Testicles haven’t atrophied but they are being pulled tight, especially during sex. The last time they basically pulled up inside and was uncomfortable as they’re get bumped. Never had this issue before on injections, and the complete opposite with clomid. Anyone experience this? Any thoughts?
Ive noticed this happen to me periodically. Sometimes it corresponds with my e2 being a little high. I’ve noticed it also when my libido has been sky high, and im super sensitive down there.
If its constantly tight, and tucked up, balls small. That’s a high e2 symptom.
High E2 in the presence of High Test is not such a big deal. At a certain point though it has to be addressed or you wont experience the benefits of TRT.
I have even come to terms with the “slight” acne that I get sometimes. The way I see it is like this, when I was 18-20, I had super high test, and yea, I had acne, because my fucking test was through the roof. So I don’t see it as something that needs to be addressed. Might get something to treat it topically. But definitely not messing with e2 directly.
Libido is SKY HIGH. Night wood, morning wood, driving wood, work wood 
. Errection quality is through the roof too. Hanging fine during the day, just something during sex I’d never experienced before.
So far I haven’t noticed any E2 sides. I was expecting to crash by now but things are going well and very smooth. This is my first injecting subq and it could be the answer for me. I still have a few weeks until my next round of labs so we’ll see how I feel then. So far so good.
New labs below. Overall feeling good. Libido has leveled off, but no crazy sides just minor stuff like slight oily forehead etc.
As a reminder I inject .5mg Sunday morning, and another .5mg Wednesday night. Due to timing these labs were taken on a Thursday morning after skipping my normal Wednesday injection. As such, they represent a through. Currently no AI or HCG.
Take a look and let me know what you think. Thanks.
I believe a DHT test is warranted on your next labs check-in, DHT is responsible for triggering sebaceous glands to produce sebum. I have problems with oily skin and anche in the 600’s and my SHBG is only a few points lower than yours.
If you have no major symptoms than congratulations you are very near your sweat spot.
Just picked up a month supply of T from Walgreens for… $1.98. Didn’t have any cash on me, felt kinda stupid handing over my HSA card 
. So grateful for insurance, and so grateful to have found an awesome doc.
FYI, I read and followed the stickie about how to find a good doc. I called my local compounding pharmacies and got loads of recommendations. There are so many cash pay clinics out there, some with great reputations, but finding a local doc who accepts insurance will save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars every year. Given this is a life long treatment those savings add up quick. If you need a doc give it a shot.
Looks good man. So .5 ml = 50 mg or 100?
Sorry, 50mg.