T Nation

Avoiding Cardiovascular Issues On Cycle

What to Take for Cholesterol Issues with Pharma

Lowering LDL…

Steroid use is catobolic to HDL. VLDL, triglyceride converts to LDL. LDL particle size infuses into the cell wall and later becomes oxidized causing atherosclerosis.

Phytosterol found in 3g of coconut or olive oil are proven to lower LDL.

Vitamin E, saw palmetto are tocotrienols. They work similar to statins in the liver and reduce the production on LDL. Vitamin E also prevents oxidation of LDL in the artery wall preventing atherosclerosis formation. Vitamin E also thins the blood similar to aspirin. Saw palmetto also blocks DHT.

Niacin B3 is also proven to reduce LDL.

Decrease belly fat. Resistin also known as **adipose tissue-specific secretory factor. Creates LDL. Lower body fat and decrease resisting.

Eat lean meat

Lower carbs

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Increasing HDL…

6-8g Salmon oil
MCT oil
Niacin
Avocado
Exercise

Protecting Against Coronary Artery Disease While On Gear

HDL… Highly protective of arteries against LDL!
Gear is catabolic to HDL and agonistic to LDL.
This is a factor in reasons you increase in artery disease while on gear.
What can you do?

1. Salmon oil 6-8g while on gear.

1,000 mg Salmon oil =:

90 mg EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid)

  • EPA is used as a prescription Vascepa to reduce triglyceride levels 33% and cholesterol by 6%
  • EPA, shown to reduce heart attack, stroke, and cardiovascular death by 25% relative to a placebo.
  • Also lowers blood pressure, inflamation C-reactive protein, interleukin 6, and TNF alpha.
  • Lowers risk of cardiovascular disease, Cancer,
  • EPA is a polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) that acts as a precursor for prostaglandin-3 (which inhibits blood clotting), thromboxane-3, and leukotriene-5 eicosanoids.

110 mg DHA (docosahexaenoic acid)

  • Primary component of the brain, cerebral cortex, skin, and retina
  • DHA modulates the carrier-mediated transport of choline, glycine, and taurine, the function of delayed rectifier potassium channels, and the response of rhodopsin contained in the synaptic vesicles
  • Neuronal signaling and neurotransmitter synthesis, DHA deficiency is associated with cognitive decline and depressed people.

Salmon oil also has:

  • 300 mg Omega-3 fatty acids in natural triglyceride form.
  • Vitamin D3 content is 100 IU
  • Vitamin A of about 70-80 IU

2. Cut back on fatty foods to lower LDL.

3. Cut back on Glucose and Cabs. Your liver, activated by insulin, mfg Cholesterol through blood sugar.

4. Moderate alcohol consumption raises HDL however no increased benefits to HDL seen in heavy consumption and with heavy consumption can drop potassium and magnesium as well as leading to hepatotoxicity and cardiomyopathy.

5. Cardio - raises HDL.

6. Niacin 2g if you can stand the flushing or use Inositol hexaniacinate.

Hope this helps!

Will link later, however the “alcohol in moderation is good for you” schtick is being contraindicated through some new data. To the point wherein it appears as if it’s plausible every singular standard drink consumed per week independently increases overall risk for cardiovascular disease. I believe down the line we will view alcohol akin to tobacco, there probably is no uniformly “safe” level of consumption. Ethyl alcohol is classified as a poison.

Niacin increases fasting glucose, is associated with hepatotoxicity/flushing. Furthermore the HDL increase/LDL decrease associated with Niacin depending on the data looked at may not significantly decrease cardiovascular mortality rates. Antioxidant capacity/decrease in oxidative stress also play fairly large roles. No flush Niacin doesn’t have any free nicotinic acid, has minimal/marginal effect on lipids.

Imo if you’re serious about preventing atherosclerosis… StAtInS and pcsk-9 inhibitors (if you can get a script… Good luck). Just take statins (note: discuss this with a physician, all meds have benefits and risks), they’re not hard to get. Don’t take statins + orals (c17-aa). Other obvious preventable measures (don’t smoke tobacco… This includes cigars, reduce/eliminate trans fat intake, maintain a healthy weight/body composition etc) also play a role.

Niacin has a pretty pronounced positive effect on HDL, more so than statins. Niacin can be used in conjunction with statins, but one needs to be careful due to rhabado risk/potential hepatotoxicity. Statins can also adversely effect fasting glucose.

Crystalline Niacin appears (been a while since I’ve read this so I’m not quite up to par) to have a lesser association with hepatotoxicity in comparision to CR Niacin.

Negative Cardiovascular steroid effects are the most important medical impact to consider on gear. Visiting this topic is something all should do. Especially chronic use of gear.

High LDL and low HDL are the problem but even grater, low HDL. LDL is not a problem if HDL is high. There are many ways to block LDL but less focus medically, is provided to raise HDL.

Statins are good too if nothing else is working. It requires surveillance on liver function as in inhibits the liver from doing is job and creates stress on the liver seen in the blood. Cutting off the fuel source of cholesterol to include glucose can be more adventitious than drug therapy in many cases. However everyone is different. The list of options can be tailored to each individual.

Alcohol, alcohol, alcohol… Another arrow in your quiver.
It’s studied and validated in clinical trials by several studies.
It’s definitely a U shaped curve, not enough, enough, too much.
Responsible alcohol consumption in certain cultures have proven to clinically show a decrease in cardiovascular rates of disease.

Genetics play a powerful roll in intrinsic factors in cholesterol levels. Educated surveillance is important. Exploit extrinsic measures against negative outcomes.

Something to consider. Ultimately Blocking cholesterol lowers fuel for natural testosterone production if on HCG to keep testicular production functioning during cycle.

Bottom line, check your blood! Know where you’re at, take action to stay safe & healthy Please!

The prescription Vascepa-1g, Lovaza-1g
dosage 4 grams per day in divided doses twice daily.

or no prescription ~~~> Salmon oil 1g

are all…
90 mg EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid)
and
110 mg DHA (docosahexaenoic acid).
Per gram.

6-8x’s the intake of salmon oil would definitely augment the effects gear has on LDL.
AND
Increase HDL!

I don’t believe this to be the case

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180824103018.htm#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20safe%20level,safe%20level%20of%20drinking%20alcohol.

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(18)31571-X/fulltext

Alcohol is a recreational drug, nothing more; and a fairly toxic one at that too. There has been an enforced societal narrative that booze is intrinsically harmless and/or that consumption isn’t all that of a big deal. It’s fun and at least it’s not “drugs” right? IMO there’s very little difference aside from a lack of stigma associated with alcohol.

Drink, don’t drink… That’s your perogative, be aware of the risks. sometimes I consume alcoholic beverages… But I stand firmly in that there are no benefits to drinking, or that any perceived benefit is offset by an equatible or greater risk. Similar to tobacco, people who smoke have a lower risk for contracting Parkinson’s disease, but risks associated with smoking offset this benefit.

Should also be noted industry funded research may fuel a large part of the “alcohol in moderation is good for you” dogma.

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This may not be true

https://esc365.escardio.org/Congress/ESC-Congress-2018/HDL-cholesterol-A-moving-target/174943-elevated-hdl-c-is-associated-with-adverse-cardiovascular-outcomes#abstract

Plenty of people with severe heterozygous familial hypercholesterolemia have high HDL/LDL but a total of say 450mg/dl. These people still suffer from myocardial infarction’s in their 40’s/50’s.

Generally speaking even the most rigorous of dietary interventions won’t lower LDL more than 15-20%. High dose statin therapy on the other hand can cause more than a 50% reduction without dietary intervention + a 10(ish)% increase in HDL. Niacin has a more pronounced effect on HDL/trigs, but a lesser effect on LDL and the correlation between niacin/all cause cardiovascular mortality rates isn’t nearly as solid as it is with statins. People on here recommend red yeast rice all the time, what many don’t know is RYR (provided it works, not all brands work due adherence regarding FDA mandated regulations) contains monacolin K. This is literally lovastatin, you’re taking an unregulated dose of a low potency statin. Dose even that high enough and reduction of 40-50% regarding LDL are possible. Citrinin contamination is of serious concern though.

Statistically speaking niacin is more likely to induce severe hepatic complications.

As a disclaimer, statins are associated with various risks, speak to a doctor about taking statins, Niacin, anything of that nature etc

2 Likes

What?!?!?!
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen on this forum stated!
It’s obviously you have no medical background.
“Generally” many DO lower cholesterol Beyond 20%!!! I work with many patients that achieve even 30%-40%! I myself lowered my cholesterol by 40% in 30 days avoiding and carbs or glucose.

YOU SITE Science Daily as your source of debate about alcohol and then offer your unqualified remarks and opinions about medically proven therapies?!?!?

Science Daily??? Science Daily is an American website that aggregates press releases and publishes lightly edited press releases. The site was founded by married couple Dan and Michele Hogan in 1995; Dan Hogan formerly worked in the public affairs department of Jackson Laboratory writing press releases. The site makes money from selling advertisements run out of the Hogans’ home, had no reporters, and only reprinted press releases. L-O-L-!!!
BRO COME ON!!!

“The Lancet” LOL!!!
***The Lancet *** plays politics on many medical and non-medical issues. They were cited in Fabricated articles later withdrawn and “covered ups” On 28 May some 180 researchers and doctors from various countries published An open letter to Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, regarding Mehra et al. The following day, The Lancet published a corrected version. According to the authors, the corrections did not change the overall findings of no benefit. However, on 2 June 2020, The Lancet published an “Expression of Concern” and began an independent audit commissioned by the authors. LOL!!!

Bro seriously! You need to take a bit more responsibility in siting sources. Take time and read clinical trials and logged data publications from places like the NCBI
National Institutes of Health’s National Library
PubMed and MEDLINE
JournalReview.org.

Even then, it takes a medical background in understanding pathophysiology and the development of medical arts over years and clinical application that helps you understand nuances to gauge if you concur with the science presented.

Ya THINK your sources might qualify as Industry Funded?!?!?
BTW… take an unbiased look at alcohols benefits to hdl. LOL. DOn’t have a dogma established opinion of the uneducated masses!!!
Best of luck bro!

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext

Source quoted from science Daily. Can link more data regarding alcohol consumption in moderation if requested. Any intrinsic benefit alcohol may have on HDL is likely offset by oxidative stress induced and/or carcinogenicity.

That being said, I’m not interested in debate if you can’t remain civil. Resorting to ad hominem attacks generally puts me off, so I’m going to bow out here. We can agree to disagree.

And I don’t believe dietary intervention alone reduces LDL by 40% +. Perhaps intensive dietary intervention coupled with very significant weight loss.

YOU ARE MISSING SITE OF THE ORIGINAL TOPIC!

Bro seriously… What’s your deal?
The ESC365 Talk you present is a waste of time!
I’m presenting HOW TO AVOID CADIOVASCULAR ISSUES on cycle!

Why do you think that is???

Because is documented that Gear is catobolic to HDL!!! THIS IS far worse for CVD vs your ESC365 talk about extreme HDL levels. No one is suggesting HIGH HDL!

I’m giving information on how LOW HDL is very bad for CVD! We see people that have CVD in their 20’s from low HDL which is way out of the norm. It’s primarily due to the use and dangers of not knowing how to mitigate GEAR!

Good luck BRO!

No, you stated

I’m stating even with a healthy HDL/LDL ratio risk for developing cardiovascular disease can still be elevated provided totals are high enough

Out of curiousity, are you a cardiologist?

Best of luck bro! No hard feelings! Rather have a friend in this world that a hater. Your probably right! Toooo much test!!!

Regarding people in their 20s developing CVD. There was a dogma going around for a while that Anavar was the safe compound, people were running it for prolonged periods of time and/or even cruising on low dose var. The result would theoretically be borderline single digit/undetectable HDL for most year round + elevated LDL!

I’d imagine coronary artery disease would develop at unprecedented rates. Another horrific combo would be/is trenbolone + stanozolol.

22 year Echocardiographer and vascular specialist. I work very closely with cardio and responsible for cardiac clinical interpretations. Former respiratory therapist. Yourself?

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This is the very thing that I feel we can overcome… Scares the shit out of me for those who have little to no knowledge understanding the fire they play with. I really hope to help people understand they CAN do things to overcome some if not all issues on gear.

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University student. I’m young

Though understandably I also hold down a job in order to make ends meet.

I think it’s dependent on genetics + lifestyle + degree of abuse.

Some permablast tren year round. I think it’d be very difficult to adequately mitigate cardiovascular damage associated with this kind of use.

There are a variety of mechanisms by which anabolic steroids can elicit a pro arrhythmic effect. From site specific beta adrenergic receptor upregulation (myocardial tissue) to maladaptive cardiac remodelling inducing abnormalities regarding electrical conduction etc. It’s a roll of the dice/Russian roulette to an extent, you never know how far your genetics will allow you to push the envelope until you fall off the edge.

Have to chime in here. I had this discussion with unreal a few months ago and I provided information on how studies showing this are flawed in setup. 15-20% is not correct and absolutely not with “the most rigorous of dietary intervention”. I’ll link it if I find it.

Edit: here

Unreal was once known to link studies to a large part of his posts. He knows how to read studies and he knows these databases well as far as I can see.

This is nice to know but of no worth in a forum like this. Being a medical professional does not qualify statements on here, correct statements qualify themselves. “Appeal to authority” may be a nice debate method but is of no worth for the quality of argument. If I’m reading your statements and they are shit, they are no matter who or what you are. A 19 year old good reader is of the same worth as a medical professional of 20 years because it’s not about who but about what someone says.

The last good appeal to authority was provided by a guy called physiolojik who later became known for being a scammer not a professional. Not saying this is the case for you obviously.

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Do what you can with what you have in front of you!
This is me http://www.cmdultrasound.com/about-us-1.html
Hopefully you prosper for your endeavors!

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Perhaps I’m incorrect. Dietary intervention in conjunction with further variables (i.e weight loss, increased insulin sensitivity + exercise) could result in a larger positive alteration regarding serum cholesterol, lipid subfractions etc.

That being said for a relatively healthy, fit individual how much could dietary intervention alone theoretically alter lipids? For me the change was around 15%

Now 20!!!